Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[itselataaja550]

Mark 7 case feeder fix STL file is here https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3173334

andrewtac: Almost any printer will do, mine is a Malyan M200 which cost less than 200€ a couple of years ago. It has only 12x12x12cm printing area which fits most things but forget printing darth vader helmets or such.

Malyan was so cheap they even misspelled their slogan on the side of the machine.
"Realizing possibilty" ... instead of possibility.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by itselataaja550

[armedmoose]

On 10/7/2018 at 4:47 PM, itselataaja550 said:

I designed an ammo chute for the Mark 7. I heard it also works on Dillon 1050.

It's a 10x10cm square that shrinks into a 52.2mm circular tube that fits common vacuum cleaner hoses.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3142314
 

Printing this tonight!   I Had to figure out how to move the model around in Cura Slicer to not print at a weird angle.  Doing the chute and the Case feeder this weekend.

[max1337]

Hey guys, my Evo Pro is finally on it's way home and I would like to confirm my reloading plan with you guys to see if my head is in the right place. Here is a little bit of background ;

 

I converted my Mark 7 Super 1050 to a brass processing machine ; it has the FFB shellplate, extractor tab, lvl 10 spring, bearing kit, index roller, etc etc.. I only reload onced fired military IVI 9mm brass and shoot a Tanfoglio Stock II Xtreme. I am anal about OAL, exactitude of powder and look of the finished round. I also only reload federal primers and Hi-Tek coated bullets.

 

So here it is, I plan to setup my Mark 7 Super 1050 like this for processing brass only ;

 

skipped the casefeed..

Station 1 ; Mighty Armory decapping die with Mark 7 Optical DecapSense

Station 2 ; Mighty Armory swage back up die with FFB Swage rod

Station 3 (powder) ; empty

Station 4 (bullet) ; empty

Station 5 ; Lee Carbide sizing die

Station 6 (crimp) ; empty 

 

Should I run a Lee Carbide Undersize sizing die @ Station 6 or it's unnecessary ?

 

For the Evolution Pro, I plan to run the following for reloading ;

 

Station 1 ; (casefeed)

Station 2 (decap) ; empty

Station 3 (swage) ; empty

Station 4 (priming) ; Mighty Armory swage back up die 

Station 5 (flare) ; Lee universal case expansion die with custom carbide die (similar to DAA)

Station 6 ; Mark 7 powder drop

Station 7 ; Mark 7 Digital Powder check

Station 8 ; Bullet drop with Armanov spring

Station 9 ; Redding Competition bullet seating die

Station 10 ; Lee Universal Crimp die

 

Should I keep the Swage Sense ? 

 

If you have any constructive comments or suggestions I am all ears. 

 

Thank you !

 

[tanks]

2 hours ago, max1337 said:

Hey guys, my Evo Pro is finally on it's way home and I would like to confirm my reloading plan with you guys to see if my head is in the right place. Here is a little bit of background ;

 

I converted my Mark 7 Super 1050 to a brass processing machine ; it has the FFB shellplate, extractor tab, lvl 10 spring, bearing kit, index roller, etc etc.. I only reload onced fired military IVI 9mm brass and shoot a Tanfoglio Stock II Xtreme. I am anal about OAL, exactitude of powder and look of the finished round. I also only reload federal primers and Hi-Tek coated bullets.

 

So here it is, I plan to setup my Mark 7 Super 1050 like this for processing brass only ;

 

...Should I run a Lee Carbide Undersize sizing die @ Station 6 or it's unnecessary ?

 

For the Evolution Pro, I plan to run the following for reloading ;

...

Station 4 (priming) ; Mighty Armory swage back up die 

 

...Should I keep the Swage Sense ? 

 

If you have any constructive comments or suggestions I am all ears. 

 

Thank you !

 

 

Well, if you are really anal I would also rollsize the brass  

 

My procedure has been rollsize the first pass (I can do 4K+ rounds an hour with the M7 14" case feeder), process where I decap, swage, resize (on a different M7 toolhead at 3.5K per hour), then reload. Because I am doing it all on the same machine I did not bother doing away with the Mighty Armory decapper, swage back up and Redding resize dies the first three die stations for the reload head.

 

Now, I have found a resizing die holds the brass better centered on the priming station than the swage back up die. I tried it both ways with a M7 representative and we both agreed that sizing die worked better in centering the primer hole and reduce jams. I would also keep the swage sense for extra insurance.

 

I think the Lee Undersize die is an overkill and not needed. Especially if one rollsizes, it undoes some of the rollsizing benefits by pushing a bulge down. Now, I am also loading .40 so your mileage might differ.

[max1337]

1 hour ago, tanks said:

Now, I have found a resizing die holds the brass better centered on the priming station than the swage back up die. I tried it both ways with a M7 representative and we both agreed that sizing die worked better in centering the primer hole and reduce jams. I would also keep the swage sense for extra insurance.
 

 

Thank you, that makes sense, I will use another Lee Carbide Sizing die in the priming station and I will move my Mighty Armory swage back up @ swage sense station.

 

I don't plan on roll sizing, I have zero ammo issues with my guns so I will keep it at that. But you are right.

[tanks]

On 10/28/2018 at 9:46 AM, Jim Watson said:

 

Has anybody opened the Mk 7 box, set up the machine and gone to loading?  If he has, I don't think he posted here.

 

Just got my upgraded powder dispenser from MK7. The machine works like a champ with pre-processed brass.

 

 

[CrashDodson]

9 hours ago, max1337 said:

Should I run a Lee Carbide Undersize sizing die @ Station 6 or it's unnecessary ?

 

For the Evolution Pro, I plan to run the following for reloading ;

 

Station 1 ; (casefeed)

Station 2 (decap) ; empty

Station 3 (swage) ; empty

Station 4 (priming) ; Mighty Armory swage back up die 

Station 5 (flare) ; Lee universal case expansion die with custom carbide die (similar to DAA)

Station 6 ; Mark 7 powder drop

Station 7 ; Mark 7 Digital Powder check

Station 8 ; Bullet drop with Armanov spring

Station 9 ; Redding Competition bullet seating die

Station 10 ; Lee Universal Crimp die

 

Should I keep the Swage Sense ? 

 

If you have any constructive comments or suggestions I am all ears. 

 

Thank you !

 

If running the redding comp seater why not the redding micro crimp?  A lot of my loading problems went away when I switch to the redding dies.  I also run the redding expander.  If you own the swage sense you might as well use it.  Use the MA swage backup in 3 or a primer hold down die.  The Lee U die is something I have always used and I have tried every sizing die on the market (with the exception of full custom dies).

 

What is the purpose of the armanov spring?  I have never heard of that.  Googled it and saw a video but not sure what problem it corrects?  

[max1337]

2 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

 

What is the purpose of the armanov spring?  I have never heard of that.  Googled it and saw a video but not sure what problem it corrects?  

 

It puts more pressure down on the bullet drop and reduce chance of bullets tipping over

[RGA]

Fwiw, I tested my Evo powder measure today with Vithavuori N540 (stick powder). Set the measure to throw about 25.1 grains and dropped 20 loads (hopper half full). Charges were weighed on a Gempro 250 scale. I'll repeat this test with a standard Dillon measure and a Harrell's BR measure later for comparison.

 

Extreme spread

24.96 - 25.30

 

25.06

25.12

25.04

25.24

25.14

25.06

24.96

25.12

25.10

25.22

25.10

25.08

25.06

25.30

25.24

25.22

25.18

25.30

25.12

25.04

Edited November 1, 2018 by RGA

[tanks]

For "stick" powder that is probably pretty good for all measures. 

[RGA]

I tested my Evo powder measure again with Vithavuori N320 (small grain extruded powder). Set the measure to throw about 4.0 grains and dropped 20 loads (hopper half full). Charges were weighed on a Gempro 250 scale. I repeated the test with a standard Dillon powder measure (with bevel) set at roughly 3.7 grain.

 

MK7         

 

Extreme spread 3.78 - 4.04   

                                      

4.00      

3.94

3.98

3.98

4.02

3.98

3.94

3.94

3.94

4.00

4.04

3.98

3.80

3.98

3.92

3.94

3.78

3.84

3.84

3.92

 

Dillon (pistol powder bar)

 

Extreme spread 3.64 - 3.76

 

3.74

3.66

3.72

3.72

3.76

3.70

3.68

3.68

3.64

3.66

3.66

3.68

3.64

3.66

3.66

3.70

3.74

3.72

3.72

3.68

                         

 

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by RGA

[Smithcity]

20 minutes ago, LowBoost said:

RGA:

 

So what are your thoughts about the results for rifle loading? For pistol, it is perfectly fine, for rifle blasting ammo, it is also OK, but for a precision rifle, I would not be happy.

Agreed. Surprised powder drops would be worse with the evo. I also never get this tight variation out of my 650. I'm consistantly +-0.2gr albeit, with mixed cases. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Smithcity

[tanks]

2 hours ago, LowBoost said:

RGA:

 

So what are your thoughts about the results for rifle loading? For pistol, it is perfectly fine, for rifle blasting ammo, it is also OK, but for a precision rifle, I would not be happy.

 

For precision rifle or hunting loads I would not load on a progressive press though.

[RGA]

I agree with Tanks again although for short range 100 or 300 meter High Power match shooting (10 ring is 1 moa) I don't mind using a progressive. (In my case mainly a Dillon 550 with Whidden clamped toolheads and floating match dies.)

 

To compare the MK7 powder measure with my Harrell's BR and a std Dillon (with bevel) I ran some more tests with N540 set to around 25.0 grains. Again dropped 20 charges.

 

The Harrell's is a culver style measure and is considered one of the finest powder measures around. It is dominant in the Bench Rest world (mainly because of the Culver style adjustment). Short range BR guys just drop the charges from the measure and do not trickle. So theses guys do not seem too worried about a small variance at short range.

 

Harrell's extreme spread

24.80 - 25.16

 

Dillon extreme spread

24.86 - 25.18

 

(MK 7 extreme spread was 24.96 - 25.30)

[tanks]

BTW, I just got the upgraded digital powder measure for my Revolution (though it was a brand new measure, not the one I sent in). The measure was set for 4.8 grains of N320. The extreme spread was 4.7 - 4.9 with most being in the 4.8 range. Using RCBS charge master so do not have 0.01 accuracy. That was a very informal test as I was measuring every 100 rounds while loading about 1700 rounds yesterday. The measure is supposed to be +/- 0.1 grain accuracy, so I was happy with that. 4.8 gets me to 170 PF so if during chrono they happened to pull all 4.7 grain rounds I'll still make major.

[tedahlenius85]

Anyone have experienced indexing problems with shellplate? I followed the index adjustment instructions and everything was within specs. Still skips indexing every 5 or so strokes while running the press on 1600+ rph. If someone had the same problem and figured it out I appreciate the help. Am waiting response from support about it, but someone might be faster with answer here maybe?

[SSGJohnV]

6 minutes ago, tedahlenius85 said:

Anyone have experienced indexing problems with shellplate? I followed the index adjustment instructions and everything was within specs. Still skips indexing every 5 or so strokes while running the press on 1600+ rph. If someone had the same problem and figured it out I appreciate the help. Am waiting response from support about it, but someone might be faster with answer here maybe?

Check your priming system. Might have something locking up the system.

[tedahlenius85]

Check your priming system. Might have something locking up the system.

I took it apart and made sure everything ran smooth and was clean. It seems like with more speed, the index thing moves cause of more torque from machine. Making it not grab the shellplate sometimes. Instead slips underneath it or something.


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[SSGJohnV]

8 minutes ago, tedahlenius85 said:

 

I took it apart and made sure everything ran smooth and was clean. It seems like with more speed, the index thing moves cause of more torque from machine. Making it not grab the shellplate sometimes. Instead slips underneath it or something.


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Watch the primer shuttle, all the same, and let me know if it is moving when it fails to index.

[tanks]

36 minutes ago, tedahlenius85 said:

 

...It seems like with more speed, the index thing moves cause of more torque from machine. Making it not grab the shellplate sometimes. Instead slips underneath it or something.
 

 

 

That means index paw height is too low.

[tedahlenius85]

 
That means index paw height is too low.

It is .092” high. Which is in the higher range of the specs they recommend (.060-.100)


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[SSGJohnV]

3 minutes ago, tedahlenius85 said:

 

It is .092” high. Which is in the higher range of the specs they recommend (.060-.100)


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Best way to see if it is the priming system, run it without primers at high RPH. If it's the index pawl, it should still do it. If its the priming system it will work fine.

[CrashDodson]

I had the same problem.   After the shellplate indexes and the press is on the down stroke does the shell plate move at all?  If so I have a document on how to tweak the index. 

 

When mine would do this it was because the primer system was stuck in the up position. Pull the primer tube off the press and with the press at the top of the stroke and the primer bar to the rear look down into the hole and make sure the hole in the primer bar that holds the primer is perfectly centered in the hole were the primer tube would be. There is a set screw on the back side that sets the rearward travel of the primer bar. You can adjust that set screw to center the primer hole. 

 

My shell plate was coming in contact with primer seating rod and preventing the shell plate from advancing.  In my opinion there should be some sort of fail safe that prevents this from happening. The press should not be able to cycle without the shell plate advancing.  My index pawl height was set in the accepted range also. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by CrashDodson

[andrewtac]

Mine too had some and still has issues; life has gotten in the way and I haven't had time to trouble shoot ATT.  When I first started the press, it ran like a top.  This was only manual operation, and I really probably only cranked it 100 times at most during the setup.  Once I got it all up and running, to included the autodrive I was going some checks.  It quit indexing all together.  This was after tightening everything up.  I think the primer shuttle ended up in a bind from either me over tightening it, surface not true, or surface dirty.  This was the first thing I noticed.  I removed the tube, and then it no longer indexed.  I broke it down, and sent in a trouble ticket.  They replied rather quickly with index adjustment instructions; which I had already found and verified (one thing I still have not verified is the bottom and top of the stroke; just did paw height adjustments).  While trying to make adjustments, I noticed if I over adjusted the paw (in the up direction) it would index again.  This told me something wasn't square inside.  I looked at the paw and it was hanging up on 1 to 2 o'clock position on the paw.  The help desk was closed and I wanted it to work.  I started looking at the mk7 forums and I found where tech support has suggested filing the corner of the paw off.  Well I got the tools out and made very small cuts until it worked.  The paw no longer got stuck on the edge, and popped up into the index hole.  I ran it with just the shell plate, seemed great.  I put it all together.  Got the powdersense die, and decided no ammo until I verified this worked on all overfills (due to failure to index and double charge).  Set the die up, worked like a champ.  Then I started making ammo.  I am still getting 2 to 3 failures to index per 100 rounds.  I took the press apart, got some of the recommended grease, cleaned and lubed and even loosened the shell plate.  Same results, mk7 replied gave me some things to verify and if it didn't work said they'll facetime with me.  Again, not enough time to work through it.  After a quick study, the index paw must have the correct height, but also lateral track.  If to far outside the radius of the shell plate it will not pop up into the hole (this is why the shave made mine work).  I have not studied the guts of the press enough to understand all the mechanics of the operation.  I suspect mine still has something to do with the primer system.  They are coupled somehow, but again I hadn't gone past shell plate removal to determine how.  I have never been able to watch the primer function when I get a double charge, so I can't confirm it is interfering.  Some things that have been 100% since I shaved the paw - every failure to index only had one failure to index, the press would double charge then the next stroke the press would index, then index again and the powdersense would stop the press.  I've probably loaded 1,000 rounds to probably 20-30 times this has been repeatable.  I am not entirely sure how the primer system operates, but I suspect if the system tried to prime a case with a primer in it there would be a primer explosion, or it would try to put another primer in, or at least there would an issue with a primer in the case at that station.  After I clear the double charge I inspect the rounds that come off the shell plate.  No observable issues.  I am tempted to set up a go pro to video the primer station and run some rounds to at least eliminate it.  I need to check the measurements they want, but it will require some disassembly and I don't have the time to finish the project.  I'll get to it at some point.

[andrewtac]

2 hours ago, Norm37 said:

 

The 3 primer adjustment steps are on page 21 of the PDF manual.

 

Figure 17: The 3 Primer Adjustments locations page 22

 

None of those reference the spring tension adjustment, I believe that is my issue (or at least contributing as I adjusted it when this all first started).  Also, none of those address how to adjust for alignment of the primer punch.