Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[CrashDodson]

There is no punch alignment....only the primer bar and the shell plate. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by CrashDodson

[CrashDodson]

If your punch is hitting the shellplate then your shellplate/index needs adjustments.  I sent you a PM

 

[CrashDodson]

3 hours ago, andrewtac said:

Mine too had some and still has issues; life has gotten in the way and I haven't had time to trouble shoot ATT.  When I first started the press, it ran like a top.  This was only manual operation, and I really probably only cranked it 100 times at most during the setup.  Once I got it all up and running, to included the autodrive I was going some checks.  It quit indexing all together.  This was after tightening everything up.  I think the primer shuttle ended up in a bind from either me over tightening it, surface not true, or surface dirty.  This was the first thing I noticed.  I removed the tube, and then it no longer indexed.  I broke it down, and sent in a trouble ticket.  They replied rather quickly with index adjustment instructions; which I had already found and verified (one thing I still have not verified is the bottom and top of the stroke; just did paw height adjustments).  While trying to make adjustments, I noticed if I over adjusted the paw (in the up direction) it would index again.  This told me something wasn't square inside.  I looked at the paw and it was hanging up on 1 to 2 o'clock position on the paw.  The help desk was closed and I wanted it to work.  I started looking at the mk7 forums and I found where tech support has suggested filing the corner of the paw off.  Well I got the tools out and made very small cuts until it worked.  The paw no longer got stuck on the edge, and popped up into the index hole.  I ran it with just the shell plate, seemed great.  I put it all together.  Got the powdersense die, and decided no ammo until I verified this worked on all overfills (due to failure to index and double charge).  Set the die up, worked like a champ.  Then I started making ammo.  I am still getting 2 to 3 failures to index per 100 rounds.  I took the press apart, got some of the recommended grease, cleaned and lubed and even loosened the shell plate.  Same results, mk7 replied gave me some things to verify and if it didn't work said they'll facetime with me.  Again, not enough time to work through it.  After a quick study, the index paw must have the correct height, but also lateral track.  If to far outside the radius of the shell plate it will not pop up into the hole (this is why the shave made mine work).  I have not studied the guts of the press enough to understand all the mechanics of the operation.  I suspect mine still has something to do with the primer system.  They are coupled somehow, but again I hadn't gone past shell plate removal to determine how.  I have never been able to watch the primer function when I get a double charge, so I can't confirm it is interfering.  Some things that have been 100% since I shaved the paw - every failure to index only had one failure to index, the press would double charge then the next stroke the press would index, then index again and the powdersense would stop the press.  I've probably loaded 1,000 rounds to probably 20-30 times this has been repeatable.  I am not entirely sure how the primer system operates, but I suspect if the system tried to prime a case with a primer in it there would be a primer explosion, or it would try to put another primer in, or at least there would an issue with a primer in the case at that station.  After I clear the double charge I inspect the rounds that come off the shell plate.  No observable issues.  I am tempted to set up a go pro to video the primer station and run some rounds to at least eliminate it.  I need to check the measurements they want, but it will require some disassembly and I don't have the time to finish the project.  I'll get to it at some point.

 

 

When mine was failing to index it was because the primer punch was stuck in the up position with the shell plate putting tension on it so it wouldn't go down.  I also noticed that after the press started its down stroke the shell plate would move a little.  Following the index guide that has been resolved, and aligning the primer slide.  Also oiling the primer rocker bar before every loading session.  I now have a new issue but its not related to this.  In my mind the press should stop via the clutch if the shell plate can not advance, but it does not.  Like you I dont fully understand the mechanics.  I know my 1050 with Mark 7 never did this.  I never had an instance where the press would cycle without the shell plate advancing.  

[andrewtac]

I don't think it is from the primer punch bar.  I moved it slowely by hand and put as much shear on the punch pin as possible and it would index every time.  If I interfere with the primer tray on the stroke it will not index.  I'll look at what you sent, all what MK7 sends and keep going when I get a little time.  I did get my Gopro ready to watch it once I do all the steps.

[CrashDodson]

 

 

[rotifsn]

On 11/10/2018 at 2:21 PM, armedmoose said:

With an RF-100 user, you hit the button... load primers while loading....  by the time you need another 100 primers, the tube is loaded. 

 

The RF100 tube fits on to the Evo primer tube (there is a cutout for the primer alarm for the rf-100), just need to push on the tube a bit.

My experience has been the RF-100 isn't so reliable. If I run it unattended I get about 5% of the primers will be loaded upside down as they flip around when they're dropping into the tube. I have to run it as slow as it goes (about 2 primers/second) and watch every primer drop in the tube to catch any that go upside down. A couple other RF-100 owners I've talked to experience the same thing. Do you ever get upside down primers?

[CrashDodson]

My RF runs 100% reliable.  I never have an upside down primer.  The key is tuning the plastic thing that is at the top of the ramp.  I also only run CCI small pistol primers.  From everything I have read CCI run the best in the RF.  Also my RF is sitting on a rubber mat, this is a key thing that helps it run more consistent as well.  Some people use mouse pads, mine is a little thicker rubber than a mouse pad.  

[Thetimb]

25 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

My RF runs 100% reliable.  I never have an upside down primer.  The key is tuning the plastic thing that is at the top of the ramp.  I also only run CCI small pistol primers.  From everything I have read CCI run the best in the RF.  Also my RF is sitting on a rubber mat, this is a key thing that helps it run more consistent as well.  Some people use mouse pads, mine is a little thicker rubber than a mouse pad.  

 

If you manually press the tube further up into the plastic tube it reduces/eliminates flipped primers. As you said it needs to be adjusted. 

[CrashDodson]

24 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

Primer pullback: 5 per 100.

 

I'm curious why this is so frequent. I've never had an automated press; only run my 650 manually.

 

Using a Lee sizer/decapper I have maybe one pullback in 5000? I actually can't remember the last time it happened.

 

Is there something going on here with this system that makes it more vulnerable?

The only thing different between the evo and my M7 on a 1050 is the mighty armory die.  

 

The die is a tank.  The way it is designed makes perfect sense.  With the Lee the pin would always work its way up no matter how much I cranked on the bolt to tighten the collar.  The mighty die just cant back out.  With that said it has something to do with the shape of the pins and perhaps the speed of the press.  I am able to run my evo a little faster than I could run my m7 on the 1050, perhaps that extra force causes the primer to stick to the pin more often.  When the primer is pulled back its only just barley hanging on.  But its enough for it to make it to the next station where the swage reseats it.  I have tried two different types of pins from MA.  I have tried polishing, sanding and lubing the pin but have not found a cure.  

Edited November 16, 2018 by CrashDodson

[ddc]

2 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

The only thing different between the evo and my M7 on a 1050 is the mighty armory die.  

 

The die is a tank.  The way it is designed makes perfect sense.  With the Lee the pin would always work its way up no matter how much I cranked on the bolt to tighten the collar.  The mighty die just cant back out.  With that said it has something to do with the shape of the pins and perhaps the speed of the press.  I am able to run my evo a little faster than I could run my m7 on the 1050, perhaps that extra force causes the primer to stick to the pin more often.  When the primer is pulled back its only just barley hanging on.  But its enough for it to make it to the next station where the swage reseats it.  I have tried two different types of pins from MA.  I have tried polishing, sanding and lubing the pin but have not found a cure.  

Interesting. I have four different 650 toolheads and each is setup with the Lee sizer/decapper.

 

If I am less than diligent in cranking down on the collet I have had the pin pushed back out.

 

However every time that has happened I have reset it and then really crank on it and then no further problems.

 

With respect to decapping pin design in general, from Lee or other source: I'm curious why they aren't made to be a slightly larger diameter.

It seems like they could be at least 50% wider and that would seem to minimize any pull back opportunities.

[CrashDodson]

From what I understand the flash hole size varies among brass brands. 

 

MA has another type of pin that he says stops the problem, but he recommends the press be run no faster than 1000RPH while using it. 

[CrashDodson]

Ive tried both pin sizes.  Same problem.  To get a pin wide enough not to stick, it would be to wide to fit in the flash hole. 

[tmz]

 My fix to the primer stick problem is running 2 de-capper pins  first station mighty armory  Second station Lee sizing de-capper but I do not use the  swage rod  I see no need I only load 40 caliber  and I process in prime before I load.been doing this for  thousands of rounds with no problems. 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by tmz

[Smithcity]

To those interested in OAL. I set up my 9mm redding competition seating die. I chose 10 case stamps, 2 are winchester the rest are mixed. I am going for 1.13" oal. Below are the results organized by columns of the same length. 2nd picture are the corresponding head stamps.

 

I.e. Evo Pro + redding competition seating die + mixed headstamp 9mm cases = 1.126" to 1.132" for a sample space of 10 cases.

 

The two winchester cases did not come out to the same oal.

 

 

[Stymie12000]

I've discovered that my powder throw on my evo is not consistent.  

 

First off I do have the "updated powder throw" my press was delivered in the last month. And I making sure the lock nut is tight on the powder charge adjustment knob.

 

I loaded up 2 separate loads. 9mm major with #7 and 9mm pcc with sport pistol. Major load is 10.5 gr and pcc is 3.0gr. 

 

With both loads I get about .4gr variations and that's with an average of 10 drops.  This is weighed with a gem pro 250. I'v weighed a bunch of drops. But rarely do I get a drop of the weight I want. 

 

I thought maybe my scale is acting weird. So I installed my hornady powder throw. With the hornady, I was getting maybe .06gr, so less than a tenth. 

 

I loaded up 100round  sample of both loads using the Mark 7 and hornady powder throws. 

 

With both loads the mark 7 was over 100fps spread, where the hornady was 17 on one and 23 on the other. Also, the accuracy was worse with the mark 7 loads. 

 

Has anyone experienced this kind of spread with the mark 7? If so any solution or advice?  Almost seems like they need a pistol throw with a smaller diameter piston that adjust the powder charge. Like hornady did with theirs.

 

I'll call tomorrow and see what they say. As I cannot use the mark 7 powder throw. Just not consistent enough. I already have a ticket open from a missing part. But I'm realizing their communication isnt very good and isnt timely at all. I'm starting to regret this purchase! 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Stymie12000

[Nigels1911]

We will be happy to review your situation in the morning with you - please do give us a call so we can also see what communication has not been up to your expectations

 

Mark 7

Edited December 2, 2018 by Nigels1911

[rotifsn]

18 hours ago, Stymie12000 said:

I've discovered that my powder throw on my evo is not consistent.  

With both loads I get about .4gr variations and that's with an average of 10 drops.  This is weighed with a gem pro 250. I'v weighed a bunch of drops. But rarely do I get a drop of the weight I want. 

 

I'm experiencing the same thing. My powder measure has been back to Mark 7 twice, once for a whole month, and is still exhibiting the same behavior. To be fair, I do not expect to get the same accuracy with the automated press that I get with a progressive, but .4 grains is way more than I expect and also more than Mark 7 is happy with so they're continuing to work with me to diagnose the problem. With my 650 I always got 3.2 grains N320 every single time. With the Evo Pro I'd be happy with getting charges of 3.2-3.3 grains. I sent them a video of the powder measure in action and they have some ideas about what's going on so I expect soon they'll have some new corrections to try, and I hope we get a solution this time. It looks to me like the drum is actuating so fast that it's not filling fully and consistently. That would explain why I get higher charges when running at a slower speed.

 

The problem does seem to depend on the powder used. Which powder are you using? When Mark 7 had my measure the last time they used Titegroup for their testing and were getting very consistent results with it. Do you get similar charges when running at 1000rph vs. 2500 rph?

 

You're on the right path of working with their support to figure out what's going on. I think the company really does care about fixing the issues that many of us are encountering, though their response time after you email support could be better. I've waited over a week sometimes with no response until I finally contacted them again. It seems you're better off calling and working directly with one of their team.

[Stymie12000]

46 minutes ago, rotifsn said:

 

I'm experiencing the same thing. My powder measure has been back to Mark 7 twice, once for a whole month, and is still exhibiting the same behavior. To be fair, I do not expect to get the same accuracy with the automated press that I get with a progressive, but .4 grains is way more than I expect and also more than Mark 7 is happy with so they're continuing to work with me to diagnose the problem. With my 650 I always got 3.2 grains N320 every single time. With the Evo Pro I'd be happy with getting charges of 3.2-3.3 grains. I sent them a video of the powder measure in action and they have some ideas about what's going on so I expect soon they'll have some new corrections to try, and I hope we get a solution this time. It looks to me like the drum is actuating so fast that it's not filling fully and consistently. That would explain why I get higher charges when running at a slower speed.

 

The problem does seem to depend on the powder used. Which powder are you using? When Mark 7 had my measure the last time they used Titegroup for their testing and were getting very consistent results with it. Do you get similar charges when running at 1000rph vs. 2500 rph?

 

You're on the right path of working with their support to figure out what's going on. I think the company really does care about fixing the issues that many of us are encountering, though their response time after you email support could be better. I've waited over a week sometimes with no response until I finally contacted them again. It seems you're better off calling and working directly with one of their team.

Actually I'm running the manual evo. I tried to go super slow and I'm still not getting the full powder charge that I would get if I manually run the powder drop by hand. 

 

Good to hear that Mark 7 wants to make this right. Good thing I can use my hornady as back up until this gets situated! 

[CrashDodson]

My measure is at M7 now getting looked at.  I run ramshot comp powder which is a flake.  When I first setup the press I was seeing a variation of around .1-2 but just ran with it.  Ive loaded about 4k rounds then the powder measure actuator arm thing started sticking and not returning to the bottom of its stroke.  It resulted in some light cases or cases with no powder.  The Powder sense caught the issue.  

 

It seems as though mine was almost grinding some of the powder and causing a build up that may be the source of the sticking.  The body of the measure also had some side to side play that may or may not have contributed to it.  M7 support has been really responsive to my issue, my measure has been there for 1 week now.  

[Smithcity]

Has anyone had success with a hornady case activated powder drop in the evo pro?

Edited December 5, 2018 by Smithcity

[Stymie12000]

25 minutes ago, Smithcity said:

Has anyone had success with a hornady case activated powder drop in the evo pro?

Yes, worked for me just fine on the EVO. Not sure if the faster cycling of the automated evo pro will make a difference but it worked great with hand cycling! 

 

Actually just tested and loaded up some rounds this morning since my M7 isnt working correctly!  

[Smithcity]

On 12/5/2018 at 1:52 PM, Stymie12000 said:

Yes, worked for me just fine on the EVO. Not sure if the faster cycling of the automated evo pro will make a difference but it worked great with hand cycling! 

 

Actually just tested and loaded up some rounds this morning since my M7 isnt working correctly!  

Good to know. Ive already invested hours into the M7 powder drop and haven't gotten where I want yet, if I dont get there soon ill just buy the hornady and send the M7 drop back for repair

Edited December 7, 2018 by Smithcity
Double post, please delete

[armedmoose]

FWIW do you guys have an additional nut on the powder adjustment?  Previously mine would still tighten in process of actuation, added another nut and the issue went away. 

 

Also are you doing any extra flaring with the powder measure?  I do all my flaring with the Lee Die loaded with MBF expansion, and just have the powder drop go for actuation, but no additional flaring.

 

Just spitballing ideas here.  Good luck with your powder measures.

[CrashDodson]

Only flaring with an expander die in station 5

[Stymie12000]

5 minutes ago, armedmoose said:

FWIW do you guys have an additional nut on the powder adjustment?  Previously mine would still tighten in process of actuation, added another nut and the issue went away. 

 

Also are you doing any extra flaring with the powder measure?  I do all my flaring with the Lee Die loaded with MBF expansion, and just have the powder drop go for actuation, but no additional flaring.

 

Just spitballing ideas here.  Good luck with your powder measures.

Thanks for the suggestions...

 

Nut isnt the problem.  The adjuster doesnt move. I do tighten the lock nut with a pair of Knepix. I've read that this has been a problem. So I really pay attention to where the adjuster knob is indexed. 

 

Good point with the case being expanded by the powder measure.  I did notice that the powder measure is sensitive to case expansion and the powder measure getting a full stroke. This can affect the amount of powder that it dumps. I thought that may have been my problem.  So after an hour or so of adjusting the height of powder measure. I still could not get it to throw as much powder if I manually cycle the measure. 

 

I have called M7 on the issue. They are looking into it and figuring out how to proceed with getting this  sorted out. I also got an answer on a separate ticket I was trying to get a response on. After some apologies I'm feeling better about the purchase. I feel like all of my concerns will be addressed and that M7 wants to get all of the problems with the powder measure sorted out!