Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[tanks]

38 minutes ago, mikamarj said:

Yes, my order of the dies is:

1. Case feed
2. Mighty Armory decapping die (amazing stuff, highly recommended!)
3. Mighty Armory swage backup die / SwageSense
4. Redding Premium Titanium Carbide resizing die with the decapping pin removed / priming
5. Redding Premium Expander die
6. Powder measure
7. -empty- / waiting for PowderSense
8. Mr. Bulletfeeder
9. Redding Competition micrometer seating die
10. Redding micrometer taper crimp die

Works well.

 

I have this exact setup with the exception of Lee Crimp/Sizing die at Station 10. I have experimented with swapping 3&4 and found that the sizing die holds the case better centered for primer insertion (very important for primer collator system).

[Thetimb]

29 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

I checked 50 powder drops last night on my EVO.  Loading 4.4 of HP38 in 9 minor.  
42 @ 4.4
8 @ 4.3
All well within the margin of error of my scale

 

 

I hope when I get my powder drop back it drops like that!

[CrashDodson]

5 hours ago, mikamarj said:

Yes, my order of the dies is:

1. Case feed
2. Mighty Armory decapping die (amazing stuff, highly recommended!)
3. Mighty Armory swage backup die / SwageSense
4. Redding Premium Titanium Carbide resizing die with the decapping pin removed / priming
5. Redding Premium Expander die
6. Powder measure
7. -empty- / waiting for PowderSense
8. Mr. Bulletfeeder
9. Redding Competition micrometer seating die
10. Redding micrometer taper crimp die

Works well.

This is my exact setup, except in 4 im using a modified lee undersized die.  Loading 40 only.  

I ordered a glass hopper from dram works.  the build is very nice but the ID of the M7 hopper base is .02 narrower then dram worx has been making.  I was able to sand the dram worx base with a dremmel enough to get it to fit.  The holes dont exactly line up either so I cant seat the screws all the way.  My mighty armory dies should get here today or tomorrow so I can start loading.  I got all of the redding dies set and ready to go.

 

I have swage sense but cant get it to work.  The new swage sense design is a little different then I had on my m7x.  I have set the clutch all the way to 5 and the clutch trips instead of the swage sense.  I can manually trip the micro switch and it works.  I adjusted the micro switch screw but have not had any luck.  I have a ticket opened with m7 about it.  

[tanks]

3 hours ago, Norm37 said:

...Andy   I have just looked at a picture of the tool head so not sure if enough room to increase the holes in the tool head from 7/8" to 1 1/4" ?

Looking at your tool head what are your thoughts, enough room ?

...

Nope, you have nowhere close enough room especially the one on the bottom.

 

You are way overcomplicating things. First, I don't think you need a second guide rod for pistol calibers. Secondly, even if you did put it on the hassle of reattaching the guide rod to the head is an extra few minutes.

 

Also, I'd plan your workflow so that you do not have to go back and forth on calibers. Load enough on one caliber to last you a long while before switching to the next one, rinse and repeat. 

[SSGJohnV]

4 hours ago, Norm37 said:

I have these on all my dies.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165277407/hornady-lock-n-load-die-bushings

So I thought why not use them by just installing the Hornady Lock-N-Load Press Conversion Bushing on my Evolution tool head

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/799411/hornady-lock-n-load-press-conversion-bushing

I would install them on stations 4 through 10.  Looks like pins between stations 1 and 2 and 2 and 3 so might not be enough room.

 

I have done a lot of tapping  but would farm this job out to a machinist.  I wouldn't trust myself on something needing such precise work.

 

Andy   I have just looked at a picture of the tool head so not sure if enough room to increase the holes in the tool head from 7/8" to 1 1/4" ?

Looking at your tool head what are your thoughts, enough room ?

 

This way I would not have to remove the tool head or even buy additional ones.

 

Thanks again, Norm

 

Ps.  Do you think I would need to adjust the Mighty Armory swage hold down  die on station 3 each time I changed calibers because case heads might have different thicknesses ?

 

Sir, I don't think you're looking at this press the same way other people are. This is meant to be a high volume, high RPH, high quality ammo producing machine. I've used the Hornady bushing system and it has it's place, but not in this application. An additional tool head, or the 10 or so minutes it would take to swap dies out, is much, MUCH, easier than tapping your tool head for the bushings. I own an Evo Pro myself, and while I don't have any caliber conversions for it, I have taken the tool head off to do basic cleaning and maintenance. It's a piece of cake, and you have to do that in order to change the shell plate, regardless.

 

And yes, I think you would have to adjust your hold down die when you switch calibers. Or, you can use a resizing die with the pin removed.

[CrashDodson]

I'm running a redding expander. I think I fixed the issue buy backing the die out. I'm getting consistent powder throws using ramshot comp which is a flake powder. My toolhead setup is. Case feeder. Might armory decap. Mighty armory swage backup. Lee undersized sizing die. Redding expander. Powder drop. Empty. Redding micro seater. Redding micro crimp. 

 

Problems I am having is primers not decaping.  I believe the primer is getting stuck on the pin and being pulled back into the case. I've tried both decap pin styles and continue to have this issue. I cant get swage sense to detect it.  The clutch stops it.  When this happens I have to clear the case from the powder station or else get a double charge and clear the case from the case feeder station or it gets pulled back in and crushed.

 

The other issue I have is the lee sizing die that's above the priming station is crushing cases. I've tried tightening the spring that goes around the shell plate. It's almost like the index is slightly off.  I've tried adjusting the index setting. The case is not moving from swage to prime. The toll head is tight. I'm having to run the clutch at 5 using the U die. I'm using one shot lube. 

[CrashDodson]

Also twice the primer rocker bar thing near the swage got stuck in the up position. The toolhead kept running but the shell plate was not moving. Resulting in a triple charge case and a mess of powder. Added more oil to that area and it's been ok since. I oiled it when I started. I've run maybe 500 rounds so far. 

[CrashDodson]

I adjusted the shell plate to make sure it was ok.  Loosened the spring that goes around the shell plate and reduced the speed to 1300rph.  This has helped a bit with the decap issue but I'm still crushing about 3 or 4 cases per 100 with the sizing die above the priming station. I may have to give up on the might armory decapper and size and decap with the lee and then get a primer hold down die. 

 

I fiddled with the swage sense some more. The micro switch trip screw only has to move a booty hair to trip the switch but the only way I can get it to trip before the clutch is to set the clutch to 6. Which is high according to the guide. I suppose it doesn't matter which thing stops the press but it does make the swage sense almost useless. It still let some federal NT junk pass that caused problems in the priming station. 

 

I use an rf100 and I found I have to remove the low primer sensor to get the primers to drop in clean.  It isnt too much of a hassle just an extra step.  Only trouble I've had with the priming system is primers getting smashed on federal NT brass...which is the devil. And the rocker bar getting hung up. 

 

So far the machine is frustrating for me. And I loaded probably 60k on my m7x/1050.  The case feeder has run flawless as well as the bullet feeder.

[mikamarj]

3 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

I adjusted the shell plate to make sure it was ok.  Loosened the spring that goes around the shell plate and reduced the speed to 1300rph.  This has helped a bit with the decap issue but I'm still crushing about 3 or 4 cases per 100 with the sizing die above the priming station. I may have to give up on the might armory decapper and size and decap with the lee and then get a primer hold down die. 

 

I wouldn't get rid of the Mighty Armory, it's the best and works for many.

Have you checked the instructional videos at Mark 7 customer community? There was just recently some video on adjusting the indexing.
If your indexing is off, you would crush cases in any station...
BTW, if you have anything else available, try some other resizing die? I found that the Lee undersize that came with the machine, was very tight and required some break-in. Mighty Armory has just released 9mm resizing dies, maybe they would be smoother?

 

3 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

I fiddled with the swage sense some more. The micro switch trip screw only has to move a booty hair to trip the switch but the only way I can get it to trip before the clutch is to set the clutch to 6. Which is high according to the guide. I suppose it doesn't matter which thing stops the press but it does make the swage sense almost useless. It still let some federal NT junk pass that caused problems in the priming station. 

 

With the undersize Lee you are going to need to use higher clutch setting anyway. If 6 is enough, I wouldn't worry.

 

3 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

I use an rf100 and I found I have to remove the low primer sensor to get the primers to drop in clean.  It isnt too much of a hassle just an extra step.  Only trouble I've had with the priming system is primers getting smashed on federal NT brass...which is the devil. And the rocker bar getting hung up. 

 

Proper oiling and rocker bar doesn't hang. Maybe you need to adjust your swaging? I have had no issues with NT-brass with proper swage.
I don't understand how the low primer sensor would affect dropping primers. The microswitch for low primer sensor is not even touching the primers.

 

3 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

So far the machine is frustrating for me. And I loaded probably 60k on my m7x/1050.  The case feeder has run flawless as well as the bullet feeder.

 

Please post a picture of your case feeder, how is the spring thingy adjusted? Mine is getting stuck every 100 cases...

[tanks]

10 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

...Problems I am having is primers not decaping.  I believe the primer is getting stuck on the pin and being pulled back into the case. I've tried both decap pin styles and continue to have this issue. I cant get swage sense to detect it.  The clutch stops it.  When this happens I have to clear the case from the powder station or else get a double charge and clear the case from the case feeder station or it gets pulled back in and crushed...

 

Hence, why I have the decapsense. I was having the same issue for a while, got hold of Wayne at Mighty Armory and he sent me some new style pins that are tapered at an angle. Since then I had maybe one or two out of 4K+ cases of brass that was decapped. Decapsense stopped the machine and it took me a few seconds to fix it and get going.

[CrashDodson]

9 hours ago, mikamarj said:

 

I wouldn't get rid of the Mighty Armory, it's the best and works for many.

Have you checked the instructional videos at Mark 7 customer community? There was just recently some video on adjusting the indexing.
 

I have not reviewed that but I will.  As the toll head comes down the shell plate moves forward just slightly as the guide pins go into the shell plate holes. 

I don't understand how the low primer sensor would affect dropping primers. The microswitch for low primer sensor is not even touching the primers.

The tube the rf100 uses is about an inch in diameter. It's not really possible to get it lined up with the tube on the evo without pulling the sensor off first. Tried it once and ended up with primers everywhere. 

 

9 hours ago, mikamarj said:

 

Please post a picture of your case feeder, how is the spring thingy adjusted? Mine is getting stuck every 100 cases...

will do. The only thing I've had to do is tighten the bolts on the plate in the case feeder to not slip so much. I left the spring as is. 

[tanks]

19 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

 

The decap sense is probably on order if this keeps up.  Problem is if you raise the tool head enough to pull a case and then hit end cycle you end up with a double charge. I dont remember it being that way with the dillon drop but I haven't had a press for 8 months 

 

Hmmm, when decap sense stops the machine the toolhead is on the way up I think. I'd have to check and see. I never had a double charge after decap sense and then end cycle/go. I'll put a decapped case in the press and check in a few.

 

Edit: Just confirmed it. It stops the toolhead on the way up. When you hit end cycle/go it continues to raise and advances the shell plate. So, no possibility of a double charge.

Edited October 14, 2018 by tanks

[CrashDodson]

That's good.  If the clutch stops it because there is still a primer when it gets to the swage the toolhead goes back down when you press end cycle. And you have to raise it up enough to reset the powder drop to remove the case. 

[CrashDodson]

[CrashDodson]

[CrashDodson]

I took the whole thing apart.  Got the index right. The shell plate doesn't move at the last minute now. I moved my U die to the swage station and it crushed the very first case.  I moved it back to above the priming station and put the lee sizing die that came with the press in the swage station and removed the pin. I also noticed the spring that wraps around the shell plate was putting pressure on the case rim and causing the case to tilt out away from the press, very slightly. I loosened the tension on the spring and with the current die setup I have not smashed any cases. 

 

Now my continued issue is the primer gets stuck to the tip of the decap pin. Its then pulled back into the case just enough so that it rides there to the swage station. Swage then reseats the primer, smashes it and sets off the clutch.  I tried filing the tip of the decap pin a little flatter and polishing the pin with some high grit sand paper. 

[Thetimb]

40 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

I took the whole thing apart.  Got the index right. The shell plate doesn't move at the last minute now. I moved my U die to the swage station and it crushed the very first case.  I moved it back to above the priming station and put the lee sizing die that came with the press in the swage station and removed the pin. I also noticed the spring that wraps around the shell plate was putting pressure on the case rim and causing the case to tilt out away from the press, very slightly. I loosened the tension on the spring and with the current die setup I have not smashed any cases. 

 

Now my continued issue is the primer gets stuck to the tip of the decap pin. Its then pulled back into the case just enough so that it rides there to the swage station. Swage then reseats the primer, smashes it and sets off the clutch.  I tried filing the tip of the decap pin a little flatter and polishing the pin with some high grit sand paper. 

 

 

If you cant get the tip to work on the MA die try using a Dillon die if you have one with the spring(not sure if its a spring) on the top. It allows the pin to go up/down and knock the primer off the tip. 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Thetimb

[CrashDodson]

46 minutes ago, Thetimb said:

 

 

If you cant get the tip to work on the MA die try using a Dillon die if you have one with the spring(not sure if its a spring) on the top. It allows the pin to go up/down and knock the primer off the tip. 

I dont have one but thank you. 

 

I found the primer issue to be 90% one headstamp.  I took a dremel with sand bit and reduced the diameter of the pin and polished. I repeated this step 3 times. I just had my first 100 primer run without any stoppage. 

 

I also have the bottom dwell set to 5 to give the primer more time to fall off. 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by CrashDodson

[tanks]

11 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

...I found the primer issue to be 90% one headstamp. 

 

On the primer collator all the jams I had were with S & B cases.

[Ocrrhbow]

 

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 9:11 PM, mikamarj said:

I don't think that you should bell the case with the powder funnel. Use separate expander die for the belling.

Lähetetty minun SM-G965F laitteesta Tapatalkilla
 

Just curious why it is a bad thing to expand the case mouth with the powder funnel.  This is the way it worked on my 650 and I never had any problem.  However, if having a separate expander is the best way to go I'll get on board.

[SSGJohnV]

Just now, Ocrrhbow said:

 

Just curious why it is a bad thing to expand the case mouth with the powder funnel.  This is the way it worked on my 650 and I never had any problem.  However, if having a separate expander is the best way to go I'll get on board.

 

One of the best parts of the Evolution is you can have separate stations for every operation. The station immediately preceding the powder funnel is for belling the case mouth. You no longer have to adjust your flare with the powder measure (a pain, in my experience) and can refine it on it's own station. Also, the powder measure is adjusted to have the right amount of travel of the throw arm. Your adjustment range when trying to flare at the same time, as opposed to just operating the powder measure, is going to be limited.

[mikamarj]

1 minute ago, Ocrrhbow said:

 

Just curious why it is a bad thing to expand the case mouth with the powder funnel.  This is the way it worked on my 650 and I never had any problem.  However, if having a separate expander is the best way to go I'll get on board.

I don't really know if it is even possible with the Mark 7 powder measure. Even if it is, I feel the powder measure works smoother when it does only the powder drop.

And anyway, Mark 7 has more die stations than 650/1050 and a Lee expander die was included with the press so why not use that as recommended.

[tanks]

8 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

...  Now I have about 1000 rounds that I dont feel confident about.  I suppose I could weigh them but all I have is a balance beam type scale.  I suppose I could weigh a known good round and then weigh them all.  Not sure if I could detect a difference in 4.5 grains with this cheap scale.  

 

Seeing that you are using mixed brass you will not be able to detect a difference even with a good scale as different brands of brass will have more than 4.5 grains of difference in weight. I'd just relegate the 1,000 rounds to practice as having a squib is not going to be as much of a disaster as zeroing a stage.

[CrashDodson]

6 hours ago, Norm37 said:

 

 

"The height of the index pawl is critical if it set too low or too high the shell plate will miss indexing altogether."

 

Page 28  

 

"With the machine at the top of the stoke the index pawl should be adjusted so the leading edge of the pawl is in contact with the inside wall of the shellplate indexing hole. Once this is set remove the shellplate and confirm that the index pawl is between .060 - .100" above the top plate surface."

 

I measured and it was within spec. The problem is when the primer rocker sticks in the up position the bar that seats the primers blocks the shell plate from advancing but the press keeps cycling. 

[tanks]

2 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

I measured and it was within spec. The problem is when the primer rocker sticks in the up position the bar that seats the primers blocks the shell plate from advancing but the press keeps cycling. 

 

Interesting, when that happens I get the "digital clutch activated" error and the press stops. I have to jog up, clear the stoppage, and hit end cycle to keep going. Worst thing that happens at that point is having a case with no powder.