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Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting


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7 hours ago, rougeqc21 said:

Another question for you all with a Revo. What kind of variance in OAL are you seeing when you have a full plate of cases active?

 

I'd say about 0.0025" for me. Powder fluctuation is about 0.2 grains.

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1 hour ago, tanks said:

 

I'd say about 0.0025" for me. Powder fluctuation is about 0.2 grains.

Well, I got something not set right haha. Using mixed headstamp brass if that matters and getting +/- 0.015. Redding comp seater. Where should I look to reign that in? Other notables, loading 135 gr bayou RNs. 

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5 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

Variations in brass and coated bullets.  .015 is nothing to worry about.  

 

Looks like he is shooting Production so that probably doesn't matter as much. Most Limited guns +/- 0.015 is going to be the difference between feeding reliably or not.

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The spec is +/- 0.2 grains on the automatic powder dispenser. I have noticed powder drops from 4.7 grains to 4.9 grains of N320 on mine with most being 4.8 (which is what I prefer). I have been measuring every 100 rounds. Either way I make major PF and I am fine with that. Resolution on my scale is 0.1 grain (RCBS Chargemaster) so no way to measure variations like 0.05 grains. I am not using an automatic reloader for making benchrest shooting rounds so some variation is fine as long it does not impact accuracy or huge fluctuations of PF. 

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23 hours ago, dfox said:

... got bullet sense and can't get it to adjust like it is suppose to. waiting to hear on that.  ... everything works but bullet sense and it is kicking my butt.

 

I have issues with bullet sense as well. Can't seem to make an adjustment that will let it reflect the laser back to the sensor. I have not even tried to deal with it yet with Mark 7 as I had been working on other issues.

 

If they do resolve it with you, please let me know it will save me a call.

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@tanks, what kind of variance do you get with OAL on your setup? Would coated rounds be subject to higher variance inherently? Ran 30 tonight and was seeing an average of -0.002 on the primer seating with an ES of 0.004 which landed me 3 pills that were ~+.00005 (since my 120A can only read to .001") and my max was -0.004. On my OAL I recorded an average of 1.114 with an ES of 0.025 and a min of 1.098 and max of 1.123. 

 

Really been struggling to get this thing to throw consistent numbers.

I again attach the caveat that I am coming from single stage precision rifle loading so the variances just drive me nuts not knowing what should be acceptable or not. Advice is thoroughly appreciated.

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8 hours ago, rougeqc21 said:

@tanks, what kind of variance do you get with OAL on your setup? Would coated rounds be subject to higher variance inherently? ...

 

I use coated bullets. My variance has been about 0.0025. Running from 1.1965 to 1.1199. I can deal with 1.195 to 1.21 in reality, below 1.195 I can have occasional failures to feed and over 1.21 it might not go into battery. Now, on coated bullets I have noticed different boxes/batches having different OALs. So, for major match ammo I use a new box and make sure OAL is reset if necessary.

 

Bigger issue for me  is to make sure the MrBulletFeeder is placing the bullets straight and firm so you do not have concentricity issues when seating the bullets. I really like the idea of a separate flaring die as a result. I have the Redding so I can make micro adjustments (via the knob not micrometer) without turning the die itself (don't use Mr. BulletFeeder insert). Doesn't take much to dial it in so the bullet is fed firmly and is not loose during the index to the seating station. 

 

Due to the flex on the shell plate and the variable force put on it at various stations you will not get super consistent OALs. Just too many variables. If you want super consistency then the next step up is a $30K+ machine that does not have a shell plate. Now, you can reduce the flex by using new brass etc., but then costs go up. For what we use the ammo for, good enough to make PF and feed reliably in the gun is sufficient, so  precision rifle standards do not really apply. 

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Evolution Pro running 9 mm at  1600 rounds an hour.https://youtu.be/JugmE452Xjo

Have run it at 2500 rounds an hour does great but you will have to be on your toes to keep up with all components. I have the BulletSense,powder sense,primer sense &swage sense. All I need now is a sponsorship from a bullet Mfg. and a lot of time to shoot. Thank-you Mark 7

Edited by dfox
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Reloaded today on evolution Pro. Was using range brass multiple head stamps. Most all issues I had were related to the range brass. The only press issue I had was the powder measure adjustment knob staying tight. Was running the press at 2200 rounds an hour and the slamming of the powder measure when the return springs snap it back the powder adjustment comes loose and changes the powder charge. I tightened the lock nut with a plier and it still come loose after 200 rounds it would change the charge from 4.1 grains to 3.8. I think it is going to require a set screw in the locking nut to make it hold. The bullet sense I was having an issue with required some shims under the back of the housing to get it to line up and work, but it worked after that fix.It runs smooth at 2200 rounds an hour with index set on 1. Using new brass would make it fly and you would have to have primers,bullets,cases,and powder ready to go.Primers disappear very fast. Learning more and more as I load. Will do more again tomorrow am going to use new brass for this session.

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On 8/30/2018 at 6:45 AM, tanks said:

 

I have issues with bullet sense as well. Can't seem to make an adjustment that will let it reflect the laser back to the sensor. I have not even tried to deal with it yet with Mark 7 as I had been working on other issues.

 

If they do resolve it with you, please let me know it will save me a call.

 

On 8/30/2018 at 6:45 AM, tanks said:

 

I have issues with bullet sense as well. Can't seem to make an adjustment that will let it reflect the laser back to the sensor. I have not even tried to deal with it yet with Mark 7 as I had been working on other issues.

 

If they do resolve it with you, please let me know it will save me a call.

I put some shims under the back of the bullet sense by unscrewing the Allen head bolt and shimming the back if you watch my you tube video of it running you will see the shims. I cut off the ends of feeler gauges as shims. Thinking about drilling and tapping the bracket under the laser and using set screws to adjust it.  Mark 7 told me to take the top off the laser housing and check the spring under the laser to make sure it was standing up not laying down. Mine was right but still could not get it to line up with out shims. I loaded 2000 rounds with it shimmed and it ran fine. But my powder measure screw keeps backing out and changing charge weight.

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2 hours ago, dfox said:

 

... But my powder measure screw keeps backing out and changing charge weight.

 

That has happened to me as well. I have to keep checking it every time I stop. I am thinking of maybe using purple loctite. Of course, my powder measure no longer works, discovered this.914062931_MicroSwitchwire.thumb.jpg.29b65bfae0f91406b9e2171efccdd673.jpg

 

I will be taking the powder measure off and doing some soldering tomorrow. With all the issues I had with the Revolution my squad mates are making fun of me now. Last comment was "You should get a real expensive machine to make ammo". :(

 

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Loaded with new brass evolution pro ran great. But no matter what I try the powder measure adjusting screw keeps backing out. And the nut holding the shell plate also loosened up. Don’t have anything to go off as far as adjusting shell plate tension so I set it up like my Dillion 650. I would like to get a complete manual with total tear down and caliber changing. Have loaded 4000 rounds having lot of loose screw issues. Am learning more and more about the press.

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8 hours ago, dfox said:

... And the nut holding the shell plate also loosened up. Don’t have anything to go off as far as adjusting shell plate tension so I set it up like my Dillion 650. I would like to get a complete manual with total tear down and caliber changing. Have loaded 4000 rounds having lot of loose screw issues. ...

 

Are you talking about the big nut that is on the bottom that is being held by the 4 retaining screws? I have taken it apart multiple times when I was filing down the index paw in order to resolve indexing issues. It seemed pretty solid to me.

 

As far as taking it down and/or changing calibers, it is pretty straight forward. Here are the steps (I had to do it in order to troubleshoot).

 

With press in the up position.

 

Take off the nut on top of the tool head using the big hex wrench provided.

Take off the tool head.

Loosen the 4 retaining screws on the big nut on the bottom.

Unscrew the nut and slide it out.

Loosen the screws holding the spring around the shell plate and take off the spring.

Take off the spring retainers.

Remove the shell plate.

 

Putting it back together is done in reverse. When putting the spring around the shell plate start with the one by Station 1 as the length has to be just right and then pull it on the other side (by Station 10) and tighten enough so there is some tension but you can still manually put brass in or take out.

 

One thing that can go wrong is that after you put it together the tool head might not go all the way down or the shell plate might not move. That means the nuts are too tight. Depending on the situation you just have to back off a bit. For the tool head I loosened the big nut, brought the tool head down all the way and then tightened it.

 

The difference in putting it together the first time and the last time was half an hour ;) 

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1 hour ago, ddc said:

I'm a little worried that you had to "file down the index pawl in order to resolve index issues" on a $5000 machine.

 

This gives me pause as to whether to order or not.

 

Actually, this was on a Revolution, so $11K machine ;) .

 

The index pawl has to be under 0.09. On mine it was 0.107. Took me a couple of hours with a very fine file to get it down to 0.0895 and then polish it with first 800 grit sandpaper, then a 1400. The issue went away. In all fairness, Mark 7 tech support has been very supportive and helpful.

 

The indexing is the same between all machines from the 2K+ Evolution to the $11K Revolution. The adjustment most likely was unique in the case of my machine. There is a way to adjust the height of the index pawl by adjusting a screw in the back. In my case I just ran out of adjustment room so had to file it down.

Edited by tanks
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@dfox the charge also changes on mine after I load even 100 rounds and it is due to the knob loosening despite my really cranking down on it. Thinking about using VC-3 vibratite... Perfect application for it I'd have to imagine. Silly that this was not baked out though and I already had my powder measure replaced once by Mk7.

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On 9/3/2018 at 8:49 PM, rougeqc21 said:

@dfox the charge also changes on mine after I load even 100 rounds and it is due to the knob loosening despite my really cranking down on it. Thinking about using VC-3 vibratite... Perfect application for it I'd have to imagine. Silly that this was not baked out though and I already had my powder measure replaced once by Mk7.

I used a 3/8 fine half nut that was a nylock. It fixed it but a pain to adjust powder just takes a little longer to dial it in. I think the way to fix it is to drill and tap the the part that the adjustment bolt threads thru. I took mine out of the rotating cylinder drop and with a drill press it would be easy to do. Then you would adjust the powder adj screw get it set and tighten the set screw and use vibratite on the set screw.

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I have also used a hornady lnl powder measure on the evolution and it doesn’t slam shut like the mark 7 and the adjustment screw does not loosen. But I want to get the  mark 7 powder measure fixed. I did run the hornady measure at 2200 rounds an hour and it worked fine. I was using N320 set at 4.1 gr and checked it every 50 rounds the measurements varied 4.0 - 4.2 but was mostly 4.1.   I get about the same with the mark 7 measure that is using mixed range brass. I think the mark 7 measure is smoother operating. If I drill and tap mine I’ll let you know how that works

Edited by dfox
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I've been running the Evo powder measure for over 10k, now. It stays tight if you more than hand tighten it. I use a pair of pliers to clamp that sucker down and my adjustment arm slams up and slams down. Zero change over thousands of rounds.

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