Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[Tanfastic]

7 hours ago, rougeqc21 said:

Yeah, the plastic shim was replaced with a machined part, chamber profile was changed, and interior dropper sleeve was lengthened.

I was one of the first evo's to customers and reported issues early on about severe inconsistencies in the drop.

@RGA, I load 9 and have had cases jam up in the top of the feeder's funnel three times per my logs.

 

Another oddity that is yet unexplained but that MK7 is aware of. If I set my powder measure to throw a load directly into a scale pan, then have it throw a measure into a case on the station, I get a completely different throw. This is with full swing on the throw bar as verified on video. I can't make sense of it!

 

Yes, same here, very early manual Evo machine, struggled with inconsistent drop in a repeatable yet totally inexplicable fashion.  9mm minor loading with Titegroup, 3.1 grains.  The original powder measure with the chamber with the shear shelf that was designed for extruded powder was very inconsistent, I'd get anywhere from 2.7-3.5 grains.  When I got the new one with the open chamber, it improved quite a bit, but still nowhere near as consistent as my old Dillon powder measure, that got it to 2.9-3.3 grains.  I also had issues with very light charges getting through occasionally, not so light as to squib but light enough that it SOUNDS like a squib and the slide barely cycles, which is very disconcerting.  I just recently replaced the powder hopper with a pyrex glass one, thinking that perhaps static from the original plastic hopper and powder clumping was the culprit, and indeed that has made a big difference, now I'm at 3.0-3.2 grains which is acceptable for my match ammo.  I had already tried all of the tricks, such as wiping the inside of the measure with a dryer sheet, and spraying with anti-static spray, but that made no difference, the glass hopper is what made the difference. 

 

I also experienced the issues with the powder measure not throwing consistently depending on how it's activated, and that's still the case now.  Cycling the measure manually does not produce the same charge as cycling the press, even though the chamber bar makes the exact same travel, as well as the pace that it's cycled affects the charge weight.  None of that makes any intuitive sense, but it's absolutely a fact, I've video'd it several times and sent to MK7 support.  It has to have something to do with the case pushing on the inside of the measure/funnel to activate it, but I can't figure out it, and MK7 support has been unable to figure it out thus far either.  I know they're still testing/working on it so hopefully we'll get to a scientific explanation/fix at some point.  All of these issues are exacerbated with the really low charge weight minor power/loads.  I just installed the RCBS lock-up powder check die, which will catch any of those really light charges if it happens again, but I think the glass hopper has solved that problem, I'm thinking the powder was clumping and when the press was cycled at a quick pace the clumps were preventing a full charge entering the chamber.  I've been careful to maintain a consistent pace while loading, and I still weigh a couple charges out of every 100 rounds of match ammo, just to be sure, but it's good enough now that I'm not worried about failing chrono at a match or blowing up my gun.  Still not "happy" but at least I'm able to use it and not have to have friends load my match ammo for me on their old busted Dillon 650's that still manage to produce more consistent results.

 

Lastly just in case anyone else has had this, the original 9mm shell plates has an outward tilt to the cases when they were in the plate, which for me caused the cases to hang up on the resizing die when using once-fired brass.  There is a new design shell plate out now which supposedly holds the cases more upright, I haven't gotten mine yet but hopefully it will be here this week and I can try it out.  

[rougeqc21]

43 minutes ago, Tanfastic said:

Lastly just in case anyone else has had this, the original 9mm shell plates has an outward tilt to the cases when they were in the plate, which for me caused the cases to hang up on the resizing die when using once-fired brass.  There is a new design shell plate out now which supposedly holds the cases more upright, I haven't gotten mine yet but hopefully it will be here this week and I can try it out.  

 

 

Man, the more you know! That's definitely happened to me but I figured it had to do with the brass being out of spec - never suspected anything else.

 

I very early suspected the plastic hopper was an issue because of the severe static I was getting. After going back and forth with support, I got frustrated and sent my hopper and funnel to Ward at Dramworx and he created a new perfectly fit pyrex hopper. Could not have been happier with the improvement. Didn't solve the problem at the end of the day that was ultimately due to the measure's issues.

 

We seem to be pretty identical in process Tanfastic... I measure every 10 rounds on my FX120i. Call me paranoid but my variance still averages +- .32gr which has caused me to experience several light throws as well. Currently loading 9 minor, 135 bayou RN on 3.6 gr of N320 at 1.12'' OAL through my S2. Because of this, I have refused to use the ammo at matches as of yet - just fulfilling my practice needs for the time being and Syntech is my match load. For the same reason that the variance is yet unexplained, the throw on the case vs direct to a pan is unexplained, and honestly, OAL variance is not what I believe it should be. Posted here asking about the acceptability of said variances and it seems to be the opinion that it should not be acceptable. So, until we have answers as I said, I am just using it to practice.

[Tanfastic]

57 minutes ago, rougeqc21 said:

 

Man, the more you know! That's definitely happened to me but I figured it had to do with the brass being out of spec - never suspected anything else.

 

I very early suspected the plastic hopper was an issue because of the severe static I was getting. After going back and forth with support, I got frustrated and sent my hopper and funnel to Ward at Dramworx and he created a new perfectly fit pyrex hopper. Could not have been happier with the improvement. Didn't solve the problem at the end of the day that was ultimately due to the measure's issues.

 

We seem to be pretty identical in process Tanfastic... I measure every 10 rounds on my FX120i. Call me paranoid but my variance still averages +- .32gr which has caused me to experience several light throws as well. Currently loading 9 minor, 135 bayou RN on 3.6 gr of N320 at 1.12'' OAL through my S2. Because of this, I have refused to use the ammo at matches as of yet - just fulfilling my practice needs for the time being and Syntech is my match load. For the same reason that the variance is yet unexplained, the throw on the case vs direct to a pan is unexplained, and honestly, OAL variance is not what I believe it should be. Posted here asking about the acceptability of said variances and it seems to be the opinion that it should not be acceptable. So, until we have answers as I said, I am just using it to practice.

 

Have you checked the accuracy/consistency of your scale?

[rougeqc21]

1 minute ago, Tanfastic said:

 

Have you checked the accuracy/consistency of your scale?

Yeah, I have - have a 100g class 0 weight from Troemner and use forceps to handle it. That was a result of initially not believing the crazy swings in throw I was getting before the lower assembly was replaced.

Scale reads perfectly every time. I've gone so far as to re-calibrate it before every session just to ensure that my logs are accurate. 

[Tanfastic]

10 minutes ago, rougeqc21 said:

Yeah, I have - have a 100g class 0 weight from Troemner and use forceps to handle it. That was a result of initially not believing the crazy swings in throw I was getting before the lower assembly was replaced.

Scale reads perfectly every time. I've gone so far as to re-calibrate it before every session just to ensure that my logs are accurate. 

 

I had one scale that would calibrate perfectly with a 100g test weight, but it wasn't consistent when weighing very small powder charges.  I could weigh a charge, pick it up and set it back down, and I'd get a slightly different reading sometimes, but I'd set the 100g test weight on it and it would be spot-on 100g every time.  I assumed you've already checked that, but just in case.

[rougeqc21]

1 minute ago, Tanfastic said:

 

I had one scale that would calibrate perfectly with a 100g test weight, but it wasn't consistent when weighing very small powder charges.  I could weigh a charge, pick it up and set it back down, and I'd get a slightly different reading sometimes, but I'd set the 100g test weight on it and it would be spot-on 100g every time.  I assumed you've already checked that, but just in case.

 

Good point as I have seen that on other scales in the past too!

I've verified against throws from a Prometheus G2 and have a separate c1 10g weight - that was when I first got the FX120 - haven't done that in awhile since on an Auto Trickler the throws always match the G2. Suffice to say I've never not trusted the scale :P.

[quiller]

Question for the Evolution owners but I suspect any Mk7 owners will be able to respond. We moved recently and I'm tight on reloading space.....actually its non existent at this point. I did however carve out a space in our storage garage where I could possible set up my Evo. The question is; is it possible to easily/quickly dump all the powder out of the powder hopper so I can store the powder in a heated space and not in the garage? Oiling up the machine is not an issue to prevent surface rust from forming but I don't think leaving the powder in the hopper in the garage is a good idea. The idea would be to crank out a few rounds, then clear the press until I need to repeat the process.......my reloading time is also limited. Cheers, Alan  

[tanks]

34 minutes ago, quiller said:

...The question is; is it possible to easily/quickly dump all the powder out of the powder hopper so I can store the powder in a heated space and not in the garage?...

 

Yes. All you have to do is to pull out the upper assembly with the hopper and tilt it into a container. Now, there will be some powder clinging to the hopper but can be cleaned off with a tissue. Now, this is for the automated powder measure and I am not sure whether the same ease of separating upper and lower assemblies exist for the manual powder measure. On the automatic one the upper assembly slides onto the lower assembly and there are no screws, bolts etc..

[mikamarj]

I just used a high precision scale to weigh 20 charges of Vihtavuori 3N38. Not too bad, less than 0,1gr variation between min and max:

Powder	Min	Max	StDev	Median	Average	Spread
VV 3N38	7,742	7,832	0,024	7,790	7,793	0,090

[itselataaja550]

I designed an ammo chute for the Mark 7. I heard it also works on Dillon 1050.

It's a 10x10cm square that shrinks into a 52.2mm circular tube that fits common vacuum cleaner hoses.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3142314
 

Edited October 7, 2018 by itselataaja550

[slavex]

that ammo chute looks good! wish I had a printer

 

[tanks]

5 minutes ago, slavex said:

that ammo chute looks good! wish I had a printer

 

 

Actually, if you follow the link you can have one of several community of 3-D printers print and mail it to you at a fairly reasonable price.

[CrashDodson]

Does the Evo pro not come with a chute?  Do they make one?  I had one on my M7 X/1050.

[mikamarj]

21 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

Does the Evo pro not come with a chute?  Do they make one?  I had one on my M7 X/1050.

I bought my Evo and autodrive separately so I don't know if it comes with the Evo Pro, but it is available separately: https://www.markvii-loading.com/Mark-7-Offloading-System_p_35.html

Update: I'm not sure if this would fit the Evo, it seems to be marketed for 1050/650.

Edited October 8, 2018 by mikamarj

[tanks]

The offload system comes with the Revolution and I think also the Pro included the chute and the hose. However, the chute comes with a pretty strong magnet that one has to use to attach it as there is no rail. It works though not as clean as the one above. Just looked at the M7 site. Ordering the Revolution has become a la carte so it is a $99 option instead of being included. Personally, I'd get the one above printed and then buy about 4-5' of 2" flexible hose. 

[tanks]

On 10/8/2018 at 1:58 PM, Norm37 said:

 

...

I plan on trying it as I need a total of three additional tool heads. I will be loading 380,  9mm,  10mm,  45acp.

...

 

BTW, if you plan on getting the second guide pin it will add another step to switching calibers to disconnect it from one head and connect it to another.

[RGA]

12 hours ago, mikamarj said:

Are you sure you had the powder measure set up right? At least I haven't noticed any spillage and I'm loading quite full cases of 9mm major. 

Hi Mika,

 

I have a .223 Evo. The ''issue'' is that the neck cut out in the powder funnel is too long. This causes a small amount of powder to fall on to the case mouth. Some kernels will then stick to the case mouth and/or fall of when the case is retracted from the funnel. The kernels will fall on to the shell plate slowly making a mess. I had to disassemble and clean the press a few times due to this. This is with ball powder, I have not tried extruded powders yet.

 

The Dillon powder funnel does not do this (it actuates on the case mouth and not the case shoulder, there is no gap where powder kernels can come to rest on the case mouth). I will continue to use my Dillon powder measure with ball powders as it works better.

 

In the picture you can compare the Dillon powder funnel (on the left) to the MK7 powder funnel. You can see the MK7 one is cut deeper.

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by RGA
to add picture

[jcwallace84]

RGA,  I was having this trouble as well.  Mainly when I had lube on the brass.  The problem went away with very clean brass, which would preclude a one pass sizing loading for 223.  I would imagine that redesigning that one metal part would be fairly simple for Mark 7 to do.  

[RGA]

On 9/28/2018 at 4:53 PM, RGA said:

Solved the case feeder issue in the mean time by making a tighter funnel.

Thought I'd also post some pics showing the stuck cases problem and the simple solution.

[tanks]

4 hours ago, RGA said:

Gents,

 

On the guide rods, these are the second and third rod accoring to MK7. When my 223 Evo was manufactured this option (the 2nd rod) was not available yet hence it was not included with my press. I might order one later but to be honest, I don't feel I really need one. If I get one it will be because it just looks darn cool!

 

The third guide rod goes where the BulletSense mounts on the bottom, so for those with automated presses they are mutually exclusive. 

[Thetimb]

All,

 

I just wanted to post something in here that was pretty alarming. I am using the powder check sensor with the mixed head stamp rod, it is not detecting a 1gr difference in powder throws.

 

I had the powder knob walk off, with 2 nuts on it after a 100 rounds or so and then the powder check was not catching the HUGE variations in powder throws.

 

I tossed all the ammo, and I am back to square one making sure the machine is consistent. I am opening a ticket about the powder check sensor. 

 

You can see the check die in action. 

 

https://imgur.com/a/p2lZxsH

 

 

I tightened the powder drop and here are the throws I got.

 

3.3

3.5

3.5

3.7

3.5

3.4

3.5

3.4

3.4

3.5

3.4

3.7

3.5

3.4

3.6

3.7

3.6

3.7

3.8

3.8

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Thetimb

[SSGJohnV]

46 minutes ago, Thetimb said:

All,

 

I just wanted to post something in here that was pretty alarming. I am using the powder check sensor with the mixed head stamp rod, it is not detecting a 1gr difference in powder throws.

 

I had the powder knob walk off, with 2 nuts on it after a 100 rounds or so and then the powder check was not catching the HUGE variations in powder throws.

 

I tossed all the ammo, and I am back to square one making sure the machine is consistent. I am opening a ticket about the powder check sensor. 

 

You can see the check die in action. 

 

https://imgur.com/a/p2lZxsH

 

I understand where you're coming from, but you need to understand how LITTLE difference in height .5-1.0 grains of powder would be. The way that the powder check sensor is designed is not intended for this kind of exact detection of variation. It is meant to detect gross changes in powder. Double charges, or the lack of powder being what it was meant to check for. I imagine if you tuned the sensor to detect those kind of variations it would be a bear and a half to get it to not throw false results. I have one of the sensors as well with 9 major and it performs as intended for myself.

[Thetimb]

1 hour ago, Thetimb said:

All,

 

So I just had a FaceTime call with Mark7 and as usual the customer service is top notch. 

 

You need to toss a nut with a lock washer on the knob or it can walk loose. The powder check sensor should really be used to detect a no charge or a double charge.

 

I am headed to the store to get some nylon sae nuts to ensure the powder knob isn't moving causing my powder throw issues. 

 

 

Just to update. he powder check problems were really non issues and assumptions on my part. I was able to get it to detect 1gr variations with tight group but its meant to be a no charge/double charge sensor.

 

I took the funnel apart per Mark 7 and cleaned with with break fluid and noticed that the left side of the powder funnel does not have a spacer on the bolt that connects into the circular part that rotates. It's also sticking pretty bad when I manually try to flip the knob up and down.

 

I am pretty sure this is the source of my issues with the drop. Can someone check theirs and see if there is a spacer on the left side? I am assuming there needs to be because mine does not have one and you can see that its kind of bent there in person (hard to see in the pic).

 

The powder check problems were really non issues and assumptions on my part.

 

[Thetimb]

1 hour ago, mikamarj said:

I do have a spacer on both sides of the powder measure, but also had issues with the powder measure getting stuck. Mark 7 instructed me to remove the left side link arm while waiting for a final fix. That fixed the stickiness for me.

About the powder measure accuracy, that variation you are getting sounds quite big. I have a very accurate analytical scale (just calibrated, maximum error was 0.0001 grams) that I used to weigh 20 charges of VV 3N38. The spread was 0.09 grains which is in my opinion very good result. Probably the huge variation you are getting is result of the powder measure sticking, I'm sure Mark 7 will take care of that for you.

 

 

Yep they always take care of me. I already have the RMA and it packed up and ready to go out the door. 

[Thetimb]

Rifle guide rod for anyone interested.