Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[Tanfastic]

2 hours ago, tanks said:

Congratulations. Once I had the bullet sensor put in I almost don't have to pay full attention anymore. I can dry fire next to the press while it is making ammo.

 

That's exactly my goal!   I have the Primer Orientation Sensor on backorder also, once that comes in there's virtually nothing that can go wrong that a sensor won't catch, outside of something totally bizarre happening.  

[ddc]

1 hour ago, Tanfastic said:

 

That's exactly my goal!   I have the Primer Orientation Sensor on backorder also, once that comes in there's virtually nothing that can go wrong that a sensor won't catch, outside of something totally bizarre happening.  

 

lol, now you've jinxed yourself for sure...

 

[Jason Krywicki]

I received the bullet sensor the other day. I can seem to be able to adjust the laser beam back to the return hole. The set screws, when I turn them, move the beam at a 45 deg either left or right, but it is returning the beam way over the laser source with no ability to dial it down. Any ideas?

[tanks]

10 hours ago, Tanfastic said:

 

That's exactly my goal!   I have the Primer Orientation Sensor on backorder also, once that comes in there's virtually nothing that can go wrong that a sensor won't catch, outside of something totally bizarre happening.  

 

Well, Primer Orientation sensor has more to do with QA then press operation. Yes, I am waiting for it as well. One thing I have done that has reduced jams at primer location is to remove the drain hole plug on the wheel of the collator and put a plastic tube there to catch primers. If a primer does not get seated for whatever reason I don't want ti to go through again as that can cause jams etc.. So, it goes into the tube and every so often I inspect the contents and use the undamaged primers.

[Tanfastic]

2 hours ago, Jason Krywicki said:

I received the bullet sensor the other day. I can seem to be able to adjust the laser beam back to the return hole. The set screws, when I turn them, move the beam at a 45 deg either left or right, but it is returning the beam way over the laser source with no ability to dial it down. Any ideas?

 

If you think about it logically, both of them are 45 degree angles so you can step your way to any position using a combination of adjustments.  Just move one down at an angle away from the sensor, then use the other to bring it down futher back toward the sensor like this:  <   As long as the sensor and mirror are in the right position, this should be doable.  On mine the initial orientation was way low, it was bouncing the beam back onto the shell plate so I had to raise it up quite a bit.  Make sure the beam is pointed to the center of the mirror so you get a clean beam coming back.

[Tanfastic]

16 minutes ago, tanks said:

 

Well, Primer Orientation sensor has more to do with QA then press operation. Yes, I am waiting for it as well. One thing I have done that has reduced jams at primer location is to remove the drain hole plug on the wheel of the collator and put a plastic tube there to catch primers. If a primer does not get seated for whatever reason I don't want ti to go through again as that can cause jams etc.. So, it goes into the tube and every so often I inspect the contents and use the undamaged primers.

 

I'll keep that in mind for when my primer collator comes in, thanks!  Right now, I'm getting a primer that is missed every couple thousand rounds so I have a case that proceeds on past the station with no primer in it, fills with powder, then trickles powder out on the shell plate as it rotates making a small mess, so the sensor should take care of that if it happens.

[teros135]

17 minutes ago, Tanfastic said:

 

I'll keep that in mind for when my primer collator comes in, thanks!  Right now, I'm getting a primer that is missed every couple thousand rounds so I have a case that proceeds on past the station with no primer in it, fills with powder, then trickles powder out on the shell plate as it rotates making a small mess, so the sensor should take care of that if it happens.

 

Can anybody tell us what the Primer Orientation Sensor looks like?  How it works?  Where it mounts?  Does it work with the Evolution, or just with the primer collator on the Revolution. 

 

There aren't any pictures or descriptions on the web site...

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by teros135

[Thetimb]

3 minutes ago, teros135 said:

 

Can anybody tell us what the Primer Orientation Sensor looks like?  How it works?  Where it mounts?  Does it work with the Evolution, or just with the primer collator on the Revolution. 

 

There aren't any pictures or descriptions on the web site...

 

 

I only see it advertised for the revolution. Is this going to be available for the evolution?

Edited February 14, 2019 by Thetimb

[rotifsn]

3 hours ago, Jason Krywicki said:

I received the bullet sensor the other day. I can seem to be able to adjust the laser beam back to the return hole. The set screws, when I turn them, move the beam at a 45 deg either left or right, but it is returning the beam way over the laser source with no ability to dial it down. Any ideas?

I had that problem too. The set screws couldn't adjust enough to come close to the sensor. There were two parts to the solution for me. First, there's an adjustment on the bottom that lets you reposition where the entire laser/sensor component is angled. Second, there's a spring inside the housing that holds the laser diode in place and it had become dislodged during shipping. Open up the housing with the two screws on the top, make sure the spring is seated properly, seat the laser on top of the spring and within the slots in the housing and screw the top back on. Between those two actions I got the laser reflecting back close enough that the set screws would adjust down to the sensor.

[Tanfastic]

2 hours ago, teros135 said:

 

Can anybody tell us what the Primer Orientation Sensor looks like?  How it works?  Where it mounts?  Does it work with the Evolution, or just with the primer collator on the Revolution. 

 

There aren't any pictures or descriptions on the web site...

 

 

It's not available yet, but is coming out for both, see here video from SHOT show:

 

 

[Jason Krywicki]

I had that problem too. The set screws couldn't adjust enough to come close to the sensor. There were two parts to the solution for me. First, there's an adjustment on the bottom that lets you reposition where the entire laser/sensor component is angled. Second, there's a spring inside the housing that holds the laser diode in place and it had become dislodged during shipping. Open up the housing with the two screws on the top, make sure the spring is seated properly, seat the laser on top of the spring and within the slots in the housing and screw the top back on. Between those two actions I got the laser reflecting back close enough that the set screws would adjust down to the sensor.

My issue isn’t left/right, though. The laser is reflecting way above the source. It seems like I need to angle the laser or the mirror down, but that’s not an adjustment. If I loosen the screws at the bottom of the source housing and angle the back up with my hand while it’s loose, it gets to around the top of the source housing.


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[Jason Krywicki]

11 hours ago, Jason Krywicki said:

 

My issue isn’t left/right, though. The laser is reflecting way above the source. It seems like I need to angle the laser or the mirror down, but that’s not an adjustment. If I loosen the screws at the bottom of the source housing and angle the back up with my hand while it’s loose, it gets to around the top of the source housing.


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I played with it some more this morning. I reseated the laser body to the spring internal to the housing. I adjusted everything again. I can have the laser shine and hit the top of the 9mm bullet I'm using, but the reflected laser returns at an elevation right above the laser source. It is, at least, centered above the source. The adjustment set screws on the laser housing are all of the way out. If I adjust the screws in, the laser will only walk up in elevation at 45 deg angles not down with screw adjustment. The instructions talk of a black shim that may be used on the mirror mount, but I did not receive it. If I loosen the mirror mount to the press and manual hold it to change the angle of the mirror to shoot the laser return lower, I still am unable to get the laser elevation low enough to get to the prescribed return hole on the laser housing. At this point, I am doing something fundamentally wrong or there is some inherent flaw in my setup.

 

Any ideas?

[Tanfastic]

1 hour ago, Jason Krywicki said:

 

I played with it some more this morning. I reseated the laser body to the spring internal to the housing. I adjusted everything again. I can have the laser shine and hit the top of the 9mm bullet I'm using, but the reflected laser returns at an elevation right above the laser source. It is, at least, centered above the source. The adjustment set screws on the laser housing are all of the way out. If I adjust the screws in, the laser will only walk up in elevation at 45 deg angles not down with screw adjustment. The instructions talk of a black shim that may be used on the mirror mount, but I did not receive it. If I loosen the mirror mount to the press and manual hold it to change the angle of the mirror to shoot the laser return lower, I still am unable to get the laser elevation low enough to get to the prescribed return hole on the laser housing. At this point, I am doing something fundamentally wrong or there is some inherent flaw in my setup.

 

Any ideas?

 

Barring something actually wrong with your sensor housing that you'd need to call MK7 support about, double-check how you have it all mounted.  The laser should be pretty much parallel with the shell plate so you have full range of motion in the adjustment available.  So if you look at it from the side, the laser source and the reflection point on the mirror should be at about the the same height.  I tried to take some photos of mine, not sure if this will help or not, but you can see where the height of the housing is set (for 9mm), how the laser is oriented, where the adjustment screws are set, and I tried to show the parallel orientation of it by putting a piece of tape on the mirror assembly with the top of the tape exactly where the laser is hitting and holding the straight edge up to it showing the height of the laser in the housing in related to the where the laser is reflecting back being exactly the same.

 

[teros135]

2 hours ago, Tanfastic said:

 

Barring something actually wrong with your sensor housing that you'd need to call MK7 support about, double-check how you have it all mounted.  The laser should be pretty much parallel with the shell plate so you have full range of motion in the adjustment available.  So if you look at it from the side, the laser source and the reflection point on the mirror should be at about the the same height.  I tried to take some photos of mine, not sure if this will help or not, but you can see where the height of the housing is set (for 9mm), how the laser is oriented, where the adjustment screws are set, and I tried to show the parallel orientation of it by putting a piece of tape on the mirror assembly with the top of the tape exactly where the laser is hitting and holding the straight edge up to it showing the height of the laser in the housing in related to the where the laser is reflecting back being exactly the same.

 

I may be missing something, but I thought from the instructions that the laser is supposed to be aimed so that the dot bounces off the mirror and hits the *back* of the bullet.  It seems that yours is hitting the front.  Does it work equally well that way? 

 

I've been having trouble adjusting mine and ended up doing all the adjustments and fixes described above, including taking the laser module apart and repositioning the wires and the spring properly and using Vibratite on the laser adjustment screws because they were so loose.  It's still hard to adjust, and I don't seem able to get the dot to hit the back of the bullet centered - it's off to one side, meaning the dot has to hit the bullet farther down in order to avoid hitting the lower sensor, which interferes with the sensor's operation when there's a bullet lying crosswise on the case mouth.  (Loading 38 SC and 9 major.)

 

Also, the dot isn't small, round, and concise but is somewhat oblong and "smeared" looking, which also means you have to have it hit the bullet farther down.  Can't imagine how this would work with the small  .223 bullet. 

 

[Tanfastic]

37 minutes ago, teros135 said:

 

I may be missing something, but I thought from the instructions that the laser is supposed to be aimed so that the dot bounces off the mirror and hits the *back* of the bullet.  It seems that yours is hitting the front.  Does it work equally well that way? 

 

I've been having trouble adjusting mine and ended up doing all the adjustments and fixes described above, including taking the laser module apart and repositioning the wires and the spring properly and using Vibratite on the laser adjustment screws because they were so loose.  It's still hard to adjust, and I don't seem able to get the dot to hit the back of the bullet centered - it's off to one side, meaning the dot has to hit the bullet farther down in order to avoid hitting the lower sensor, which interferes with the sensor's operation when there's a bullet lying crosswise on the case mouth.  (Loading 38 SC and 9 major.)

 

Also, the dot isn't small, round, and concise but is somewhat oblong and "smeared" looking, which also means you have to have it hit the bullet farther down.  Can't imagine how this would work with the small  .223 bullet. 

 

 

Well, like I said I couldn't find any instructions anywhere, so I did what I thought made sense.  It works fine this way, but if someone has an actual reference to an instruction manual somewhere please post a link to it.

[tanks]

34 minutes ago, teros135 said:

 

I may be missing something, but I thought from the instructions that the laser is supposed to be aimed so that the dot bounces off the mirror and hits the *back* of the bullet.  It seems that yours is hitting the front.  Does it work equally well that way? ...

 

 

The theory is that the beam goes to the mirror and comes back to activate the sequence, coupled with the movement of the shell plate. The bullet breaks the beam going to the mirror hence no alarm.On the Revolution the bullet breaks the path to the mirror. I am not 100% sure how it is on the Evolution Pro as the location of die locations are a bit different.

[tanks]

1 minute ago, Tanfastic said:

 

Well, like I said I couldn't find any instructions anywhere, so I did what I thought made sense.  It works fine this way, but if someone has an actual reference to an instruction manual somewhere please post a link to it.

 

The M7 forums does have the installation instructions.

[Tanfastic]

7 minutes ago, tanks said:

 

The M7 forums does have the installation instructions.

 

Ok, I'll look again, couldn't find it the other day.

[Tanfastic]

Ok found it!  If you're on the MK7 users forums, it's under the Evolution PRO forum, and scroll down the page below the pinned "Hot topic Thursday" posts.  There are helpful pictures in the PDF file so go download that if you're an owner and have access to the forum.  So to confirm, my installation is wrong, YES the laser should point over the tip of the bullet and reflect back to hit the bullet from behind.  My solution works for detecting bullet/no-bullet condition, but I can see now that it may not work for catching and upside down bullet or sideways bullet, so I will raise mine up slightly to point over the tip of the bullet.

 

So proper procedure per Mark 7 is: 

1. The Mirror Mount is shipped with a protective film over the surface, before starting setup, peel off the film. If required the mirror surface should be cleaned with water or isopropyl alcohol, do not use any other types of solvent.

2. Install the BulletSense Mount and Mirror Mount onto press

3. Plug the sensor cable into the console at port location #3. Power on the console which will automatically turn on the laser.

4. Next step is to align the laser so the mirror reflects the laser beam into the sensor. When you first power on the sensor look at the mirror to see where the laser beam is directed. Use a white card to help find the exact position if it’s difficult to detect the position.

5. Adjust Laser beam onto the mirror with the 2X 6-32 set screws on the top of the assembly. Once the Laser diode is hitting the mirror surface. Rotate the mirror so the laser beam is reflected back to the sensor main body. Once the reflected laser beam appears on the sensor main body, continue adjusting the set screws a little at a time to direct the laser beam into the sensor hole as shown in the following figures. If you cannot get the beam to hit the mirror and reflect back into the eye install the black plastic shim between the mirror and press and realign (rifle calibers most likely will need the shim).

6. Now that the laser beam is aligned lock the mirror in-place by gently tightening the 2 socket cap screws in the Mirror Mount. Do not over tighten.

7. Next the Sensor vertical height must set for the given caliber and projectile being used.

8. To set the height, place a case with the neck flared in Station #9 and place a bullet in the proper orientation into the case at the level where it would be when dropped from the Mr. Bulletfeeder drop tube.

9. Loosen the 2X brass thumb screws and gently position the upper mount so the laser beam goes OVER the tip of the bullet and hits the mirror, the reflected beam should return and hit the tip of the bullet so the beam path is broken as shown below. Put a white card above the bullet and adjust the mount so there is a slight gap between the tip of the bullet and where the beam is positioned as show.

10. When the vertical height is adjusted properly a shadow will be cast on the sensor preventing the sensor to see the laser beam. When the bullet is not present, upside or sideways the beam will pass over the bullet and contact the sensor triggering the machine to stop.

11. Once the proper height has been achieved tighten the 2X brass set screws and the shaft locking collar. The shaft locking collar is used to lock in the required height adjustment. If you need to remove the BulletSense® assembly for press maintenance or for any reason you can choose to remove the upper mount only. When re-installing, the vertical position will be maintained.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Tanfastic

[MemphisMechanic]

On 2/13/2019 at 8:54 PM, Tanfastic said:

...once that comes in there's virtually nothing that can go wrong that a sensor won't catch, outside of something totally bizarre happening.  

 

Just for saying that, the reloading gnomes are going to cause your low powder sensor to stick.   You’ll get to load a thousand rounds of squibs.

 

Never provoke those wretched little gnomes like that.  

 

[Tanfastic]

20 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Just for saying that, the reloading gnomes are going to cause your low powder sensor to stick.   You’ll get to load a thousand rounds of squibs.

 

Never provoke those wretched little gnomes like that.  

 

 

Good point, I'll probably regret that...... 

[Allenmat]

I have been playing around with the Dillon Powder Measure and the Hornady Powder Measure on the Evo.  Both are much more consistent than the Evo Powder Measure and the reloading speed does not seem to have an effect on the drop as it does with the Evo PM.  The Chrono results bear out the differences. I am not posting velocities, just the ES and SD

 

Evo PM Chrono results 1  (3.2 of Titegroup, 147 gr, 9mm) ES 63  SD 18  Loaded at 1000 RPH, Bottom Dwell 1

Evo PM Chrono results 2  (3.2 of Titegroup, 147 gr, 9mm) ES 48  SD 16  Loaded at 1000 RPH, Bottom Dwell 1

Dillon PM Chrono results 1  (3.2 of Titegroup, 147 gr, 9mm) ES 22 SD 8  Loaded at 1000 RPH, Bottom Dwell 1

Dillon PM Chrono results 2  (3.2 of Titegroup, 147 gr, 9mm) ES 28 SD 9  Loaded at 1000 RPH, Bottom Dwell 1

Hornady PM Chrono results 1  (3.2 of Titegroup, 147 gr, 9mm) ES 25 SD 6   Loaded at 1000 RPH, Bottom Dwell 1

Hornady PM Chrono results 2  (3.2 of Titegroup, 147 gr, 9mm) ES 28 SD 8   Loaded at 1900 RPH, Bottom Dwell 1

 

The Dillon and Hornady results are virtually identical.  

 

I hope the new linkage will improve the Evo drop, although I think the problem may be more in the large diameter of the rotary plunger in the powder measure.  The Hornady uses a smaller diameter plunger to measure pistol powder drops and has a larger one for Rifle, so if there is any "splash" out of powder during high speed reloading, the smaller diameter of the Hornady would "splash" out less, if it does it at all due to the different activating linkage. 

[tanks]

1 hour ago, Allenmat said:

I have been playing around with the Dillon Powder Measure and the Hornady Powder Measure on the Evo.  Both are much more consistent than the Evo Powder Measure and the reloading speed does not seem to have an effect on the drop as it does with the Evo PM.  The Chrono results bear out the differences. I am not posting velocities, just the ES and SD

 

...Loaded at 1000 RPH, Bottom Dwell 1

I have been getting the best results on my Revolution with a bottom dwell of 3 (.40 S&W).

[RGA]

1 hour ago, Allenmat said:

I hope the new linkage will improve the Evo drop, although I think the problem may be more in the large diameter of the rotary plunger in the powder measure.  The Hornady uses a smaller diameter plunger to measure pistol powder drops and has a larger one for Rifle, so if there is any "splash" out of powder during high speed reloading, the smaller diameter of the Hornady would "splash" out less, if it does it at all due to the different activating linkage. 

 

I came too the same conclusion/suspicion/observation after testing my Evo powder measure against a Dillon and a Hornady powder measure. I shared this with Mark 7 back in december 2018 but they were not interested.

[Tanfastic]

Here's another tip, applicable to:  If you've ever had an issue with the case feeder shuttle not getting cases seated correctly in the shell plate occasionally.  The symptom you may have noticed is that either 1) You have an index that occurs with no case loaded in the shell plate during rotation, and Station #2 is inexplicably empty. or 2) You have a case that either flips completely off the shell plate or gets stuck sideways against the case feed shuttle housing.  

 

How to tell if you have the issue:  Inspect the movement of a case inside the case feeder shuttle arm by manually activating it with your finger, and watch how it slides onto the shell plate.  If it's not a perfectly smooth transition onto the shell plate, and the case catches on the edge lip of the shell plate slightly, then it's likely that at high speed this will cause instability and at least occasional improper seating of the case into the shell plate.  On mine, I noticed that the shell plate was slightly higher than the case feeder shuttle platform (see photo).

 

The fix:  Loosen the two bolts holding the case feeder shuttle housing to the side of the press, and put pressure on the housing in the direction that it needs to move, while tightening the bolts.  On mine it resulted in a perfectly smooth transition for the cases feeding into the shell plate and now 2000 rounds tested with zero case feed issues.  Previously, every few hundred rounds I'd have a case either missed during index, or once in a while have it get wedged and either flipped completely out of the shell plate or caught on the edge of the housing.