February BOD meeting - NEW USPSA RULES

[B_RAD]

18 minutes ago, tdp88 said:

I bet most people just pick one up and shoot some targets from low ready. I like to get some dry fire in and get familiar with the gun first and then run some drills like accelerator, distance change up, and doubles. 

I think you’re probably more right than wrong on this. 
 

 I’m not saying that it’s impossible to tell a difference between something like different weighted guns. Just think there’s a ton of room for miss-perceived feelings. I mean if you want gun A to be faster or slower, it’s very possible it will be.  Not to mention, small aspects that can be overlooked in search of specifics. Was it faster/slower?  Was it ran the exact same and all other variables were consistent?  How may test runs were done? It’s easy to stop and move on once desired results were met. 
 

again, not saying it’s not possible but definitely not easy for some. Just my opinion. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by B_RAD

[tdp88]

33 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

I think you’re probably more right than wrong on this. 
 

 I’m not saying that it’s impossible to tell a difference between something like different weighted guns. Just think there’s a ton of room for miss-perceived feelings. I mean if you want gun A to be faster or slower, it’s very possible it will be.  Not to mention, small aspects that can be overlooked in search of specifics. Was it faster/slower?  Was it ran the exact same and all other variables were consistent?  How may test runs were done? It’s easy to stop and move on once desired results were met. 
 

again, not saying it’s not possible but definitely not easy for some. Just my opinion. 

That's fair. To really give something a chance you should probably run it for a couple of months and I've only done that with a Tanfo vs G34 in production. 

[B_RAD]

18 minutes ago, tdp88 said:

That's fair. To really give something a chance you should probably run it for a couple of months and I've only done that with a Tanfo vs G34 in production. 

but how do you account for potential changes in skill over that period of time? Can you say for sure you were the same exact skill level the entire time?  Would you be able to confirm that each time your ran the drill or stage, that your reaction time to buzzer was the same, that you’re transitions were executed with the same amount of precision and that you’re reaction times for pulling the trigger on an acceptable sight pic was the same?  
 

I know I feel I like one gun better. Maybe I feel

its faster/slower or flatter but is it the gun?  I think it’s accepted that heavier guns shoot flatter with everything but weight being the same. I think lighter guns transitioning faster is a little more complex. 
 

I also don’t think it matters and would probably admit I’ve spent more time focusing on it than it’s worth. 
 

as for the rules changes. After the last day or two, after reading all the info presented by everyone, I think they just want to make almost every gun legal in one division or another. So, production is now a division where you can shoot essentially any non 2011/1911/revolver, iron sighted semi-auto pistol, with almost any aftermarket mods.  So, no matter what gun average joe rolls up to the range with, they will be legal in some division. match fees/classifier fees will be received. 
 

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by B_RAD

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, B_RAD said:

I wonder how many people get valid results form their so called test “on the clock”?!

 

 

 

It's still going to boil down somewhat to personal preference, and in my experience it's likely to change as you develop better skills and technique

[motosapiens]

4 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

but how do you account for potential changes in skill over that period of time? Can you say for sure you were the same exact skill level the entire time?  
 

 

 

my evaluation of major vs minor in 1911's has been going on more or less continuously for 5-6 years, shooting both in practice in the same drills, and also shooting both in uspsa and steel challenge matches.  Similarly, some minor snafu's with small parts breakage allowed me to go back and forth for 8-9 months testing and using plastic grip/stock slide 2011 vs a steel grip and  lightened slide.

 

I've also found tho that sometimes once you learn something with one platform, you can apply it to others. Using a heavy grip/light slide 2011 improved my shot-calling and consistency on partials right away, but some of that improvement translated back to the older gun because I started to learn what to look for and how to get the gun to behave better.

[B_RAD]

11 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

It's still going to boil down somewhat to personal preference, and in my experience it's likely to change as you develop better skills and technique

Yup

[tdp88]

23 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

It's still going to boil down somewhat to personal preference, and in my experience it's likely to change as you develop better skills and technique

Preference definitely changes as skill improves. I just don't think the slightly flatter gun or the slide reciprocating .001 faster translates to better match scores. Then again I guess anything that is a perceived advantage can't hurt anyone. 

 

28 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

 

I also don’t think it matters and would probably admit I’ve spent more time focusing on it than it’s worth. 

 

I think this sums it up if we're honest with ourselves. 

[motosapiens]

12 minutes ago, tdp88 said:

Preference definitely changes as skill improves. I just don't think the slightly flatter gun or the slide reciprocating .001 faster translates to better match scores.

 

for me it comes down to the sights coming back quicker and more predictably, as opposed to bouncing around a while still. slide reciprocating faster is part of that, along with grip, gun design, recoil spring, experience, etc....

 

for some folks a heavier slide seems to work fine, as long as the timing comes together so the slide helps drive the gun back to level. Under some circumstances if the gun doesn't move much (strong grip, heavy gun) , that heavier slide can drive the sights below level, so you have to wait a bit longer to shoot accurately. Cha-lee wrote about that recently in his gun review.

 

You can compensate for some of that stuff, but if you find the right combo that feels natural to you, you can apply more bandwidth to important things.

Edited March 5, 2020 by motosapiens

[tdp88]

 
for me it comes down to the sights coming back quicker and more predictably, as opposed to bouncing around a while still. slide reciprocating faster is part of that, along with grip, gun design, recoil spring, experience, etc....
 
for some folks a heavier slide seems to work fine, as long as the timing comes together so the slide helps drive the gun back to level. Under some circumstances if the gun doesn't move much (strong grip, heavy gun) , that heavier slide can drive the sights below level, so you have to wait a bit longer to shoot accurately. Cha-lee wrote about that recently in his gun review.
 
You can compensate for some of that stuff, but if you find the right combo that feels natural to you, you can apply more bandwidth to important things.

For sure. Cha-lee probably has the flattest shooting limited gun around.


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[MemphisMechanic]

3 hours ago, waktasz said:

 If you stick one of the 115s in the middle of a 147 grain mag it's clearly noticeable not just to me, but to people listening. 

While I agree that puff puff 147s do round the recoil impulse off quite nicely, that’s an apples/oranges comment about the spectators.

 

115 is supersonic, 147s aren’t. The 147s are missing a ‘crack.’  

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, tdp88 said:

For sure. Cha-lee probably has the flattest shooting limited gun around.


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It's not the gun. lotsa folks have guns like that. he just grips the living f$#$ out of it.

[tdp88]

3 hours ago, tdp88 said:

With a proper grip the difference in sights returning is negligible between a chopped up shadow 2 and a stock gun. 

 

3 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

It's not the gun. lotsa folks have guns like that. he just grips the living f$#$ out of it.

It's almost like I tried to make that point and someone just wanted to keep arguing about how superior chopped up slides are for skilled shooters... 

[Steppenwolf]

In other news, IDPA has not changed their weight limits or rules for awhile. . . . I was just trying to condense and summarize what I learned after reading all 8 pages of this thread. I think that weight gain is normal as we grow older.

[motosapiens]

5 hours ago, tdp88 said:

 

It's almost like I tried to make that point and someone just wanted to keep arguing about how superior chopped up slides are for skilled shooters... 

it's dark out, what else is there to do but argue on the internet. I already started drinking homebrew, so dryfire is out.  

[tdp88]

it's dark out, what else is there to do but argue on the internet. I already started drinking homebrew, so dryfire is out.  [emoji482]

[emoji23]


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[Jabberwalkie09]

16 hours ago, Steppenwolf said:

In other news, IDPA has not changed their weight limits or rules for awhile. . . . I was just trying to condense and summarize what I learned after reading all 8 pages of this thread. I think that weight gain is normal as we grow older.

So is being set in your ways and not adjusting to changing times. 

[Jeff226]

At this point, if they just allow the 140mm magazines in production I will be content until my eyesight forces me to go to carry optics,

 

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, Jeff226 said:

At this point, if they just allow the 140mm magazines in production I will be content until my eyesight forces me to go to carry optics,

 

I can remember we collectively would say this will never happen. But these days things change radically and often. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Sarge

[GrumpyOne]

2 hours ago, Jeff226 said:

At this point, if they just allow the 140mm magazines in production I will be content until my eyesight forces me to go to carry optics,

 

I can see them allowing the 140mm mags in Production...but you would still be limited to 10 rounds.

[Jeff226]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

I can remember we collectively would say this will never happen. But these days things change radically and often. 

Luckily the market seems to have more influence than the naysayers...unfortunately it just takes too long.  

[shred]

In the minutes, it says they discussed 15 rounds in PD and single-actions in CO, but neither got so much as a motion to be voted on.