When did you decide it was time to move to Mark7/Ammobot?

[Chris777]

Called M7 today and pulled the trigger on a 1050 Pro Autodrive.   M7 is running a 10% shot show discount this week and the difference between a similarly equipped ammobot came to about $570.  I am also a bit height limited with my ceiling in my reloading room, so that along with a acceptable price difference (for me) led me to the M7.

 

I recommend calling M7 directly as opposed to ordering on line to get the most accurate pricing and info.

 

Can't wait to get her setup.

[Dirtchevy841]

On 1/31/2020 at 2:11 PM, Chris777 said:

Called M7 today and pulled the trigger on a 1050 Pro Autodrive.   M7 is running a 10% shot show discount this week and the difference between a similarly equipped ammobot came to about $570.  I am also a bit height limited with my ceiling in my reloading room, so that along with a acceptable price difference (for me) led me to the M7.

 

I recommend calling M7 directly as opposed to ordering on line to get the most accurate pricing and info.

 

Can't wait to get her setup.

What sensors did you get with it. If you don’t mind what’s was the total cost of it. I am on the fence right now about getting one 

[dansedgli]

Good choice. 

 

I bought mine because I like gadgets. In the end it is a bit faster but not exactly life changing. I shoot between 16-19k per year. 

 

I no longer suffer elbow pain. I used to think it was shooting major that did it, turns out it was pulling the lever on my press. 

 

 

[DJRyan13]

On 2/1/2020 at 11:29 PM, dansedgli said:

Good choice. 

 

I bought mine because I like gadgets. In the end it is a bit faster but not exactly life changing. I shoot between 16-19k per year. 

 

I no longer suffer elbow pain. I used to think it was shooting major that did it, turns out it was pulling the lever on my press. 

 

 

 

ha! Me too! I am even automating my bullet sizer now. 

[Dirtchevy841]

Got a great deal on a ponsness Warren autodrive with all the upgrades. Gonna try it on my 1050 first to see if automated is for me. If it is eventually will move to m7 pro 1050

[hurley326]

for a lot of guys the answer is "when your reloading 10k-20k plus per year." but not for me. I made the decision when I decided I wanted more of my time back which is invaluable, and also when I just wanted to make reloading easier. I was sick and tired of loading ammo the night before a match and I had 2 650s with bullet feeders and case feeders. I sold one of them and decided to not buy a gun this year and sold a handgun I wasnt using anymore and thats how I justified the purchase and could not be happier. It's allowed me to now load closer to the 10-20k rounds per year range and spend time cleaning my guns or whatever I want to do instead. I keep telling myself I will finally start to dry fire with this new found time but i've yet to start that.

[JatCarver]

On 1/21/2020 at 8:42 AM, Chris777 said:

Hey there,

 

i am seriously considering setting my 1050 up with either a Mark7 or Ammobot.  Both options come with big price tags.  

 

My question for the forum is what was the deciding factor for folks that got them stop pulling the handle?

 

• Did you reach a certain yearly round count? (if so, what was your number)
• Was it more a time savings issue?
• Did you just want the latest, coolest thing (we like guns, so I know everyone suffers from this
• Physical - Medical issues that make pulling the handle problematic

 

I am currently shooting around 12K 9mm each year.  I can manually load 800 rounds/hour on my 1050 (have a MBF), so I am looking at about 15 hours of pulling the handle.  Its not bad to do, but I could probably cut that time in 1/2 with automating.

 

Thanks

Chris 

I actually check all of the boxes. 
I bought a mk7 and 1050 (had a 550) within a few months of starting competitive shooting sports. Once I seen the rate I was burning through my ammo it took all of the fun out of loading on a 550. Mostly because I have a neck and back injury with pins in my spine and pulling a press handle really aggravates it. 
 

I like to load all my yearly ammo in a small time frame, makes me really appreciate the mk7. 
 

I case gauge while the machine runs so it saves a ton of time and makes case gauging less of a chore since it spreads it out a bit.
 

Now someone needs to automate the case gauging process. 

[MemphisMechanic]

@JatCarver you are at least using a 100-round shockbottle case gauge, right?
 

Those things are mandatory regardless of which press you reload on.

[JatCarver]

49 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

@JatCarver you are at least using a 100-round shockbottle case gauge, right?
 

Those things are mandatory regardless of which press you reload on.

Yes of coarse, and yes I agree, mandatory equipment. 

[Boomstick303]

For those that automated their Press, did you worry you would not see (or a better term is feel) when the press had issues when running automated?  I can tell a lot from pulling the handle by how the handle feels.  I can address issues typically before they become a bigger issue.  You can no longer feel how the presses is running when you are no longer pulling the handle.  Do sensors fix all of this?  Do you find when the press does have an issue is it more damaging issue because the problem was not significant enough to stop the press where the press became damaged?  Did you increase (reduce the round count) between maintenance intervals, and what is your maintenance interval when using the Mark 7?  I am fairly close to having the funds to automate but I would say these questions have made me second guess automating.

 

Thank you in advance. 

[Cuz]

Great timing to revive this thread. I shoot less than 10k rounds a year, and recently upgraded from a 550 to the 1100, mostly for convenience. After only a couple of months with the 1100, and I think I’m ready to automate, mostly to save wear on my aging body. 

[ddc]

8 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

For those that automated their Press, did you worry you would not see (or a better term is feel) when the press had issues when running automated?  I can tell a lot from pulling the handle by how the handle feels.  I can address issues typically before they become a bigger issue.  You can no longer feel how the presses is running when you are no longer pulling the handle.  Do sensors fix all of this?  Do you find when the press does have an issue is it more damaging issue because the problem was not significant enough to stop the press where the press became damaged?  Did you increase (reduce the round count) between maintenance intervals, and what is your maintenance interval when using the Mark 7?  I am fairly close to having the funds to automate but I would say these questions have made me second guess automating.

 

Thank you in advance. 

 

I load with an Ammobot on an RL1100. I imagine that loading on a Mk7 is similar but have no experience there.

Also my experience is only with 9mm. I assume other pistol cartridges are similar. Rifle I have no experience with.

 

You are correct in suspecting that issues that would cause you to stop a manual lever pull will not be noticed by the Ammobot.

I run without sensors other than the low primer stop.

 

The Ammobot will not stop short of a situation which causes a hard stop, hard jam.

Some examples are:

1. An incomplete indexing of the shell plate. The Ammobot does not realize this and will not stop until the index pin hits the shell plate. The shell plate will eventually warp if this is not fixed.

2. Bullet falls over and lays sideways on top of case. Ammobot will not stop until the bullet is pushed sideways about halfway down the case. The case is obviously destroyed and the bullet is likely as well.

3. If for some reason a case is not aligned with it's corresponding die the Ammobot will happily attempt to cram it in there anyway.

 

All those scenarios will result in the Ammobot sensing an over torque issue and stopping but not until something significant has occurred.

 

The Ammobot and the RL1100 are amazingly tolerant of such abuse. Incomplete indexing is probably the number one issue I've had problems with and that is a RL1100 problem, not Ammobot. If the shoulder bolts which attach the index arm and the index roller get bent then the indexing is affected. Unfortunately they seem to eventually bend resulting in the indexing issues.

 

(My particular situation was exacerbated by an out of spec main shaft which Dillon eventually fixed although not under warrantly.)

 

With respect to cleaning: I've learned that one way to minimize issues is to keep the machine as clean as possible. I think about 5k is all I would consider loading before I tore the top end down completely, clean, lubed, reassemble.

 

Again all my experience is Ammobot but I'm guessing that Mk7 users have similar experiences especially if they are running without sensors.

 

Edited to add: One thing that will make your life much, much, simpler is going to a two pass strategy. I fought against that for about 10k rounds but eventually accepted the inevitable. Unsuccessful decapping can result in a lot of mess if you are loading powder at the same time. Getting that out of the way prior to a loading run is worth it's weight in gold.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by ddc

[Cuz]

3 hours ago, ddc said:

 

 

Edited to add: One thing that will make your life much, much, simpler is going to a two pass strategy. I fought against that for about 10k rounds but eventually accepted the inevitable. Unsuccessful decapping can result in a lot of mess if you are loading powder at the same time. Getting that out of the way prior to a loading run is worth it's weight in gold.

 

 

 

 

I agree, and think 2 pass loading eliminates the need for some of the sensors. If you’re automated, 2 passes is easy. It’s a bit more of a pain if your pulling the handle, as I’ve recently pulled the handle more than 500 times and I don’t have a loaded round to show for it. 
 

im planning to add an undersize die at the end of the processing run which will offer yet another chance to decap any primers that make it past the other two decappers. 
 

im hoping that will make the losing pass super smooth. 

[Sigarmsp226]

I am lurking in the shadows of this thread to see what I can learn because automation and two pass reloading are in my future….Cuz to your point if the machine is automated two pass loading is a non-issue……
 

Now to pause to learn which machine/sensors is/are easier to set up vs. the price difference….I also wonder if small pricing discounts will start to show up again from both companies the further we venture away from the COVID situation….I have the machine, dies, tool heads, the wife’s approval, and working on the funds…Now to continue to read and learn which unit is the easiest to set up, most reliable, and has the best customer support….

 

Please go back to your regularly scheduled discussions as I continue to lurk in the shadows….Mark

Edited July 24, 2021 by Sigarmsp226

[Boomstick303]

13 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Cuz to your point if the machine is automated two pass loading is a non-issue

 

You think this until your maintenance periodicity doubles. I would prefer to load at least pistol ammo in one pass. Rifle ammo pretty much is a 2 pass process regardless. 

[Sigarmsp226]

Boom - Thanks for sharing this point. Something I had not thought about or considered…. I just finished tearing my RL1100 primer feed system apart and cleaning it because my primer slide was not returning to its far back position picking up the next primer about 1 out of every 4 primers….It is aligned properly - it was just in need of a good cleaning……Now it works as intended…To your point every cycle will count towards the next required cleaning….. Mark

[Trump]

On 1/21/2020 at 7:42 AM, Chris777 said:

Hey there,

 

i am seriously considering setting my 1050 up with either a Mark7 or Ammobot.  Both options come with big price tags.  

 

My question for the forum is what was the deciding factor for folks that got them stop pulling the handle?

 

• Did you reach a certain yearly round count? (if so, what was your number)
• Was it more a time savings issue?
• Did you just want the latest, coolest thing (we like guns, so I know everyone suffers from this
• Physical - Medical issues that make pulling the handle problematic

 

I am currently shooting around 12K 9mm each year.  I can manually load 800 rounds/hour on my 1050 (have a MBF), so I am looking at about 15 hours of pulling the handle.  Its not bad to do, but I could probably cut that time in 1/2 with automating.

 

Thanks

Chris 

Been thinking about that same thing myself since I got into shooting. I went to their website and started drooling ...quite pricey tho...

[Boomstick303]

5 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

every cycle will count towards the next required cleaning

 

I have yet to automate, but I have pretty much understood my periodicity on Maintenance/cleaning is about 5000 rounds. I have never processed brass then loaded using the 2 pass method. I can see once I automate how this would alleviate just about all, stopages with the exception of feeding components to keep the press running when loading. I find powder spills of any sort is what mostly gunks up my press which causes a myriad of problems. It seems like right around 5000 rounds I am fighting with the press, to where it only makes sense to maintenance the unit.

 

Once I auto mate and try processing pistol brass, it will be interesting what the periodicity for maintenance would be for processing alone.  

[dansedgli]

I always do 2 passes.

You would be suprised at the crap that comes out of the primer pockets when the cases are deprimed. 

 

It definitely contributes to primer malfunctions. 

 

I deprimed a bunch of cases and tried to load without cleaning and had priming issues straight away. I gave up after 300 rounds so I could clean it properly. There was a small mound of primer dust on the primer punch tilting the primers.  

 

Once clean I loaded 9700 rounds in a day with zero issues and zero powder spilled on the deck. 

 

I also like to deprime brass that I wet tumble without waiting too long. I've seen some primers or even just the side walls of primers stick in cases that get left in the elements. 

 

The mark 7 swage sense picks up every case that doesn't get deprimed and stops the press. It is great for sensing but I havent had a lot of luck getting consistent swaging results from it. I'll fit the standard swage rod when I need it. 

[Cuz]

I know just about everyone is in favor of the swage sense on their autodrives. But am I correct in assuming it’s only function is to stop the press if a primer didn’t get ejected?  I know it will also detect a small primer hole in 45acp too, but I’m talking about just 9mm pistol brass.  My pre-processing head has 3 decapping dies and I’m about to add a 4th in the form of the Lee undersize die when it comes in. My loading toolhead Will also have one, so I just don’t think a primer not getting ejected is going to be an issue. 
 

As far as the extra maintenance with two passes, I wonder about that too. I’ve processed a few thousand cases, and the press hardly looks dirty at all, and when I switch to loading ammo, I expect the press to cycle much smoother because the brass will already be sized. I don’t expect any powder spillages. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see. 

[Sigarmsp226]

Cuz - Quick question. On your second pass will you be using a camera system (that you have the capability to watch) to monitor your powder drop or a powder check die or neither?  Just curious since I am guessing with the two pass process you have the capability to add this while also using the MBF and a separate seat and crimp die set up (if you reloacte your powder drop stage over one to drop sooner as previously discussed)…..Got ya thinking about it now - don’t I…….Mark

Edited July 25, 2021 by Sigarmsp226

[Cuz]

1 hour ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Cuz - Quick question. On your second pass will you be using a camera system (that you have the capability to watch) to monitor your powder drop or a powder check die or neither?  Just curious since I am guessing with the two pass process you have the capability to add this while also using the MBF and a separate seat and crimp die set up (if you reloacte your powder drop stage over one to drop sooner as previously discussed)…..Got ya thinking about it now - don’t I…….Mark

 

Always thinking about everything Mark, mostly I do way too much thinking and end up over-complicating everything.  My current plan is not to use anything to monitor the powder drop.  However, with that said, I do have an endoscope saved in my Amazon list based on other threads here, so that is subject to change at any moment.  I definitely will NOT use a powder check die, so it will be a camera or nothing.  And, now that you've got me thinking about it (again), I'm pretty sure I'll order the camera long before I'm able to get my hands on an autodrive since nobody seems to have them and Mark 7 says 4-8 weeks for delivery.

 

 

[George16]

I recommend the endoscope. I actually have two of them. One is used for monitoring powder in the cases while the other camera is mounted underneath so I can see that each case has a primer in it. I had problems of cases not having primers and making a mess once I get in the hang of just pulling the handle.
 

There’s no way to feel a primer is getting installed on a case like the resistance felt on the 559/650/750 since the 1050/1100 primes on the downstroke.

 

My wife actually asked me how come I don’t automate and I told her I like pulling the handle better. At least it gives me something to do and I get my biceps and triceps worked out too . I process a lot of .223 (at least 5k in each session) and I just enjoy pulling the handle. I also tear it apart for cleaning after each processing or loading session.

[Cuz]

1 hour ago, George16 said:

I recommend the endoscope. I actually have two of them. One is used for monitoring powder in the cases while the other camera is mounted underneath so I can see that each case has a primer in it. I had problems of cases not having primers and making a mess once I get in the hang of just pulling the handle.
 

There’s no way to feel a primer is getting installed on a case like the resistance felt on the 559/650/750 since the 1050/1100 primes on the downstroke.

 

My wife actually asked me how come I don’t automate and I told her I like pulling the handle better. At least it gives me something to do and I get my biceps and triceps worked out too . I process a lot of .223 (at least 5k in each session) and I just enjoy pulling the handle. I also tear it apart for cleaning after each processing or loading session.

I don’t know why it never seemed to bother me on my 550, but for some reason, pulling the handle on the 1100 got old after about a month. 

[HOGRIDER]

On 7/23/2021 at 6:31 PM, ddc said:

 

I load with an Ammobot on an RL1100. I imagine that loading on a Mk7 is similar but have no experience there.

Also my experience is only with 9mm. I assume other pistol cartridges are similar. Rifle I have no experience with.

 

You are correct in suspecting that issues that would cause you to stop a manual lever pull will not be noticed by the Ammobot.

I run without sensors other than the low primer stop.

 

The Ammobot will not stop short of a situation which causes a hard stop, hard jam.

Some examples are:

1. An incomplete indexing of the shell plate. The Ammobot does not realize this and will not stop until the index pin hits the shell plate. The shell plate will eventually warp if this is not fixed.

2. Bullet falls over and lays sideways on top of case. Ammobot will not stop until the bullet is pushed sideways about halfway down the case. The case is obviously destroyed and the bullet is likely as well.

3. If for some reason a case is not aligned with it's corresponding die the Ammobot will happily attempt to cram it in there anyway.

 

All those scenarios will result in the Ammobot sensing an over torque issue and stopping but not until something significant has occurred.

 

The Ammobot and the RL1100 are amazingly tolerant of such abuse. Incomplete indexing is probably the number one issue I've had problems with and that is a RL1100 problem, not Ammobot. If the shoulder bolts which attach the index arm and the index roller get bent then the indexing is affected. Unfortunately they seem to eventually bend resulting in the indexing issues.

 

(My particular situation was exacerbated by an out of spec main shaft which Dillon eventually fixed although not under warrantly.)

 

With respect to cleaning: I've learned that one way to minimize issues is to keep the machine as clean as possible. I think about 5k is all I would consider loading before I tore the top end down completely, clean, lubed, reassemble.

 

Again all my experience is Ammobot but I'm guessing that Mk7 users have similar experiences especially if they are running without sensors.

 

Edited to add: One thing that will make your life much, much, simpler is going to a two pass strategy. I fought against that for about 10k rounds but eventually accepted the inevitable. Unsuccessful decapping can result in a lot of mess if you are loading powder at the same time. Getting that out of the way prior to a loading run is worth it's weight in gold.

 

 

 

 

ddc:

Do you think Dillon's upcoming version of the Ammobot will be worth waiting on vs going with the M7?

I too am considering automation; but don't want to give up that level of safety that comes from knowing the "feel" of your machine when pulling that handle.

 

Thanks!