When did you decide it was time to move to Mark7/Ammobot?

[HOGRIDER]

On 7/25/2021 at 10:53 AM, George16 said:

I recommend the endoscope. I actually have two of them. One is used for monitoring powder in the cases while the other camera is mounted underneath so I can see that each case has a primer in it. I had problems of cases not having primers and making a mess once I get in the hang of just pulling the handle.
 

There’s no way to feel a primer is getting installed on a case like the resistance felt on the 559/650/750 since the 1050/1100 primes on the downstroke.

 

My wife actually asked me how come I don’t automate and I told her I like pulling the handle better. At least it gives me something to do and I get my biceps and triceps worked out too . I process a lot of .223 (at least 5k in each session) and I just enjoy pulling the handle. I also tear it apart for cleaning after each processing or loading session.

George:

I too use an endoscope to view the powder drop.  Wondering if your primer view would show a clear pic of say, a primer that partially seated crooked and was smashed but still went through the press with no abnormal feedback in the handle, etc?

 

I loaded 600 9mm yesterday without any stoppages except component replenishment, and during my case gauging found a completed round that had one edge not fully seated and smashed flat against the case head.  Federal Match SPP.  

 

Thanks!

[Cuz]

55 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

George:

I too use an endoscope to view the powder drop.  Wondering if your primer view would show a clear pic of say, a primer that partially seated crooked and was smashed but still went through the press with no abnormal feedback in the handle, etc?

 

I loaded 600 9mm yesterday without any stoppages except component replenishment, and during my case gauging found a completed round that had one edge not fully seated and smashed flat against the case head.  Federal Match SPP.  

 

Thanks!

Damn, I don’t know if I would pick that up if I had a camera. My attention drift while reloading is close to horrendous. I start out ok, but then a cool tune comes on the radio, or I just start thinking about something else and zone out for the next 30 rounds or so. 

[HOGRIDER]

3 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Damn, I don’t know if I would pick that up if I had a camera. My attention drift while reloading is close to horrendous. I start out ok, but then a cool tune comes on the radio, or I just start thinking about something else and zone out for the next 30 rounds or so. 

I'm the opposite...........

 

Look at each powder drop on the 10" monitor which also yields a quick glance at the bullets dropping right side up and an occasional glance at the right side of the press/shellplate.

 

Guess my thinking is it DEMANDS 100% concentration from me!

 

[Cuz]

I always start out with 100% concentration, but then I drift…

[HOGRIDER]

3 minutes ago, Cuz said:

I always start out with 100% concentration, but then I drift…

try ear plugs with your safety glasses..............

 

[George16]

2 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

George:

I too use an endoscope to view the powder drop.  Wondering if your primer view would show a clear pic of say, a primer that partially seated crooked and was smashed but still went through the press with no abnormal feedback in the handle, etc?

 

I loaded 600 9mm yesterday without any stoppages except component replenishment, and during my case gauging found a completed round that had one edge not fully seated and smashed flat against the case head.  Federal Match SPP.  

 

Thanks!

Hogrider, yes it does. Here’s a pic:

 

 

[HOGRIDER]

3 minutes ago, George16 said:

Hogrider, yes it does. Here’s a pic:

 

 

Awesome view!  

 

Now I remember your setup from previous posts!  

 

Great job!

 

[ddc]

3 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

ddc:

Do you think Dillon's upcoming version of the Ammobot will be worth waiting on vs going with the M7?

I too am considering automation; but don't want to give up that level of safety that comes from knowing the "feel" of your machine when pulling that handle.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

That is a good question.

 

As far as what we will be getting when Dillon releases their version I think the only thing we can guess is that it will be more expensive.

Who knows what features they will add if any. I can imagine their legal department will mandate some sort of drive chain guard.

 

At one point there was a fairly significant price difference. I bought during their annual 20% off sale so it was a no brainer from a cost perspective.

 

I’ve done a lot of reading on both machines over the past several years. While I don’t have any Mk7 experience it certainly appears capable.

 

With either machine you are going to lose the “feel” of the manual machine. No way around that. You are more of an observer of the process than an active participant.

 

Things will go wrong. There is a stop switch. Sometimes you can get it stopped before you make a big mess and sometimes you can't.

[Cuz]

1 hour ago, ddc said:

 

 

Things will go wrong. There is a stop switch. Sometimes you can get it stopped before you make a big mess and sometimes you can't.

Ain’t that the truth. 
ive already proven I can make a big mess without automation. 
 

[ddc]

16 hours ago, Cuz said:

Ain’t that the truth. 
ive already proven I can make a big mess without automation. 
 

 

As can I, lol.

 

One thing to add with respect to automation vs manual...

 

I find it much easier to get lulled into a less than totally focused state when I'm standing there watching the automated process. When I'm manual I'm much more involved.

On more than one occasion I've caught myself standing there with the process going on in front of me and I realize I haven't paid much if any attention to the last several cycles. That doesn't happen when I'm doing manual loading.

[HOGRIDER]

18 hours ago, ddc said:

 

That is a good question.

 

As far as what we will be getting when Dillon releases their version I think the only thing we can guess is that it will be more expensive.

Who knows what features they will add if any. I can imagine their legal department will mandate some sort of drive chain guard.

 

At one point there was a fairly significant price difference. I bought during their annual 20% off sale so it was a no brainer from a cost perspective.

 

I’ve done a lot of reading on both machines over the past several years. While I don’t have any Mk7 experience it certainly appears capable.

 

With either machine you are going to lose the “feel” of the manual machine. No way around that. You are more of an observer of the process than an active participant.

 

Things will go wrong. There is a stop switch. Sometimes you can get it stopped before you make a big mess and sometimes you can't.

ddc:

Thanks for the detailed feedback!  I think I'll just pay attention to everyone's input and see how the new Dillon is accepted with Forum members here offering feedback.

 

Have to honestly say I've never paid a lot of attention to the Ammobot unit; but have always thought the M7 "appeared" to be very smooth during the YouTube videos I've seen.  And I like seeing the M7's various sensors that are available.

 

I think our options are going to be plentiful with all the "players" entering the market. 

 

Thanks again!

 

[ddc]

19 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

ddc:

Thanks for the detailed feedback!  I think I'll just pay attention to everyone's input and see how the new Dillon is accepted with Forum members here offering feedback.

 

Have to honestly say I've never paid a lot of attention to the Ammobot unit; but have always thought the M7 "appeared" to be very smooth during the YouTube videos I've seen.  And I like seeing the M7's various sensors that are available.

 

I think our options are going to be plentiful with all the "players" entering the market. 

 

Thanks again!

 

You bet.

 

I'm very curious to see where Dillon prices their version.

 

[Sigarmsp226]

DDC - You bring up a point that I have thought about a lot recently based on what has occurred over the past 18 months in the reloading world we dabble in (saying this comparing what we load vs. a professional ammo company).   I am guessing that because all reloading companies have experienced demand like they have never experienced before, Dillon Precision being right up in the middle of all of this as we all are aware….IMO Dillon will launch their unit at a price point that is between 25%-50% higher than a comparable unit.   If their launch sales are not through the roof, they might be happier with less sales and slightly higher profit margins - at least for a little while.  I hope I am wrong but I fear I may be right…
 

I say this based on where Dillon is today - they are experiencing unprecedented sales, long lead time backorders, and there is a certain level of frustration that is evident when you talk with “some” of the CSR associates at Dillon….and I can understand why - when day in and day out they cannot provide the answer to the person they are speaking with that they want to hear - and it is completely outside of their direct control  I can only imagine that this has to be disheartening after a while…..

 

It all will pass and lessons will be learned but until it does I think based on what is still occurring related to COVID will will see a lot of new pricing “normals” for all of the items we want and need to successfully reload and shoot - including the auto drive that Dillon will soon launch (or will this be like the RL1100 where Dillon will struggle to get the required parts in from their primary supplier’s)…..I guess only time will tell…..Mark

Edited July 31, 2021 by Sigarmsp226

[ddc]

1 hour ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

DDC - You bring up a point that I have thought about a lot recently based on what has occurred over the past 18 months in the reloading world we dabble in (saying this comparing what we load vs. a professional ammo company).   I am guessing that because all reloading companies have experienced demand like they have never experienced before, Dillon Precision being right up in the middle of all of this as we all are aware….IMO Dillon will launch their unit at a price point that is between 25%-50% higher than a comparable unit.   If their launch sales are not through the roof, they might be happier with less sales and slightly higher profit margins - at least for a little while.  I hope I am wrong but I fear I may be right…
 

I say this based on where Dillon is today - they are experiencing unprecedented sales, long lead time backorders, and there is a certain level of frustration that is evident when you talk with “some” of the CSR associates at Dillon….and I can understand why - when day in and day out they cannot provide the answer to the person they are speaking with that they want to hear - and it is completely outside of their direct control  I can only imagine that this has to be disheartening after a while…..

 

It all will pass and lessons will be learned but until it does I think based on what is still occurring related to COVID will will see a lot of new pricing “normals” for all of the items we want and need to successfully reload and shoot - including the auto drive that Dillon will soon launch (or will this be like the RL1100 where Dillon will struggle to get the required parts in from their primary supplier’s)…..I guess only time will tell…..Mark

 

There isn't really a comparable unit other than the Mk7 The only viable option, that is not a niche or boutique type option such as Forcht or Posness Warren,is the Mk7.

 

It seems to me that the pricing of the Dillon/Ammobot would have some relationship, however tenuous, to the original Ammobot pricing modified for the inflationary/covid effects since that unit was available. 

That number also depends upon what if any additional features Dillon has added along with what if any sensors they make available with the base unit.

 

Considering that the original Ammobot sold at a discount to the equivalent Mk7 unit I'd be surprised to see the Dillon version sell at a 25% (or higher) premium.

 

 

 

[Cuz]

I guess the good news is that neither one is available at the moment so it’s not like you have to decide right away which one you want. 
 

My dilemma now is whether or not to pre-order and get myself on the list, or wait a couple of months and hope they start showing up in stock at a few places. 
 

Does anyone know why the Mark 7 autodrives aren’t available?  Are people buying them like crazy?  Or are they experiencing the same COVID shortages as everyone else?

[Sigarmsp226]

DDC and Cuz - Great points from both of you…. This is why I like this forum and folks like both of you (and others who are members here)….I can express my thoughts, share my comments, and usually I do not get SLAMED against a brick wall by someone who’s opinion differs…Others sharing their reasons for viewing the topic differently typically will open my eyes to things I had not thought about or considered….Thanks for your responses and view points…I continue to learn at 61 years of age…Mark

[ddc]

13 hours ago, Cuz said:

...Does anyone know why the Mark 7 autodrives aren’t available?  Are people buying them like crazy?  Or are they experiencing the same COVID shortages as everyone else?

 

Wild ass guess is it's more COVID shortage related than anything else.

 

I'd be curious... I wonder what the actual sales numbers of autodrives are.

 

[Cuz]

1 hour ago, ddc said:

 

Wild ass guess is it's more COVID shortage related than anything else.

 

I'd be curious... I wonder what the actual sales numbers of autodrives are.

 

that’s sort of where I was going with my question. I wonder what percentage of 1050/1100 owners end up getting autodrives?? 

[Johnnymazz]

On 7/25/2021 at 8:53 AM, Sigarmsp226 said:

Cuz - Quick question. On your second pass will you be using a camera system (that you have the capability to watch) to monitor your powder drop or a powder check die or neither?  Just curious since I am guessing with the two pass process you have the capability to add this while also using the MBF and a separate seat and crimp die set up (if you reloacte your powder drop stage over one to drop sooner as previously discussed)…..Got ya thinking about it now - don’t I…….Mark

Theres no need for a camera if you run a 2 passes. You can clearly see in the cases just position yourself over to the left side. I also bought a 36 inch high bar stool to sit while reloading automated. Holland Bar stool company, they make very nice stools.

[Johnnymazz]

I have the bench height set to 30 inches for my autodrives. This way I can see everything clearly. Im 5 ft 9.