AmmoHouse Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 I use a bungee wrapped around my holster and over my grip as an added safety precaution when I’m not shooting. Twice now I’ve been told that it’s a safety device and must be on the gun after Make Ready...meaning I have to pull it off on the clock. Thoughts??? At A3 last year Troy said no it’s just an extra measure. BSPS even sells them So, what rule can I show them or should I just email Troy for clarification and always have the email with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Check this rule...Last sentence. 5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment on the belt must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is permanently attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command.A bungee used to secure the gun before and after the course of fire is likely NOT permanent.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 You could ask them to quote you the rule number they are trying to enforce. However, Radar Tech nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhunter3 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 when you make ready do you leave it attached to the holster or remove it completely? had to go to Bens site to see wat you where talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdlrodeo Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, RadarTech said: Check this rule... Last sentence. 5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment on the belt must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is permanently attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command. A bungee used to secure the gun before and after the course of fire is likely NOT permanent.... I’d say key word is ‘permanently’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Yeah, it has to be attached to the holster to be required to be fastened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhunter3 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) is this what you are talking about Edited July 6, 2019 by fishhunter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhunter3 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 If you remove it from holster during make ready it's fine but if you just slip it of the gun and let it hang, it's still connected to the holster and has to be used, it would be the same as a removable thumb break holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 If you remove it from holster during make ready it's fine but if you just slip it of the gun and let it hang, it's still connected to the holster and has to be used, it would be the same as a removable thumb break holster. It's not connected. It's just hanging. Connected would be fastened to the holster. And mine isn't connected to the holster, it's hanging from the drop mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 3 hours ago, AmmoHouse said: I use a bungee wrapped around my holster and over my grip as an added safety precaution when I’m not shooting. Twice now I’ve been told that it’s a safety device and must be on the gun after Make Ready...meaning I have to pull it off on the clock. Thoughts??? At A3 last year Troy said no it’s just an extra measure. BSPS even sells them So, what rule can I show them or should I just email Troy for clarification and always have the email with me? An email from Troy is not a ruling, it is just his opinion and unless he is the RM at the match it doesn't matter what he said. 5.2.5.3 says you must use it. If DNROI makes an Actual ruling then it would be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Well I'm gonna talk about the elephant in the room,, By your own demonstrated actions you dont trust it. We used to have a jump test. "Allied" in combination or working together with. Your bungee cord is working with your untrustworthy holster to hold the gun in. So its allied equipment you are changing during a match. Sooo Id say start with the bungee. If you didnt want to use the bungee I'd say by your own admission of not trusting the holsters retention, your holster is unsafe and must be withdrawn from the match under 5.2.6 The right thing to do would be to get a holster you trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) This is an old topic and the answer hasn't changed in the last 20 years. These gadgets are a holdover from the days when not all race holsters were created equal as to reliability/retention. If it is not permanently attached (i.e. requires tools of some kind to remove) and can come off at Make Ready, it is a non-issue. Just take the danged thing off prior to approaching the stage and let those with creative opinions relax. Edited July 6, 2019 by George Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmmoHouse Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, fishhunter3 said: is this what you are talking about Thats it exactly! Edited July 6, 2019 by AmmoHouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmmoHouse Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 I trust my RHT holster just fine, it’s just a peace of mind thing when bending over resetting stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhunter3 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 it's kind of like wearing suspenders with your belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 4 hours ago, bret said: An email from Troy is not a ruling, it is just his opinion and unless he is the RM at the match it doesn't matter what he said. 5.2.5.3 says you must use it. If DNROI makes an Actual ruling then it would be ok. So how do you explain the word permanently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 7 hours ago, AmmoHouse said: So, what rule can I show them or should I just email Troy for clarification and always have the email with me? Just want to throw this out there.... That's now how it works. If some over eager RO wants to apply his made up rules onto you, it's up to HIM to quote the rulebook to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Gary Stevens said: So how do you explain the word permanently? Any retaining strap on a holster can be removed, nothing is permanent. If it is attached, it is permanent until it is removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, bret said: Any retaining strap on a holster can be removed, nothing is permanent. If it is attached, it is permanent until it is removed. not sure if seriously clinton, or just trolling. Either way, I lol'd at how wrong your are on this topic. Words have meanings. Permanent doesn't mean easily removable without tools. 5.2.5.3 explicitly allows this kind of retention measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 1 minute ago, motosapiens said: not sure if seriously clinton, or just trolling. Either way, I lol'd at how wrong your are on this topic. Words have meanings. Permanent doesn't mean easily removable without tools. 5.2.5.3 explicitly allows this kind of retention measure. yes it does and must be applied at make ready. if there is a strap like on a uncle mikes holster held on with velcro, from the factory, would it have to be applied? Can serpa holsters have a wedge put in them to defeat the lock? does a weber tactical retention holster have to have the hood flipped up over the hammer to lock it in place? If you are going to use this kind of thing, just take it off when you are the on deck shooter or get a decent holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 All of those examples (except the velcro) are parts that are bolted to the holster. If you can take it off your holster in 3 seconds and put it in your pocket, it's not permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, bret said: If you are going to use this kind of thing, just take it off when you are the on deck shooter or get a decent holster. That's not what the rules say, at least according to the most experienced RO's in the country. Sorry man, let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 1 hour ago, motosapiens said: Sorry man, let it go. Good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver123 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 Number one is you don't need piece of mind about your gun falling out of your holster while resetting stages. If it falls out Don't pick it up notify RO and they will clear and return gun. Its not a DQ. Second is if it is that unsecure then get a different holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Diver123 said: Number one is you don't need piece of mind about your gun falling out of your holster while resetting stages. If it falls out Don't pick it up notify RO and they will clear and return gun. Its not a DQ. Second is if it is that unsecure then get a different holster. Whether it’s a DQ or not, I’d still prefer my gun to not fall out and hit the ground. Just because the shooter wants an additional retention doesn’t mean it’s not secure. I’ve seen guns get hooked on stuff, particularly in the winter months when shooters around here are wearing a few layers. As as far as deciding what the rules mean, I think I’m gonna listen to Gary Stevens over bret. Don’t know bret’s background, but I do know Gary’s and there are few people I trust more on the rules than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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