Kraj Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Is anyone happy about the new production rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted May 30, 2019 Author Share Posted May 30, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Production would be greatest if there was a list, a box, a weight, no comps or dots, minor only, done. Otherwise you get stuff like this there a thumbrest slide stop is ok, but a notch in the frame is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted May 30, 2019 Author Share Posted May 30, 2019 Production was fine the way it was. You want to add aftermarket triggers? Fine. But if your going to interpret everything as a small part you might as well combined it with limited and call it a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 I used to feel a certain mechanical purity shooting Prod. I no longer do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Go back read the bod minutes or even threads in here about Prod rules 2001 to 2004. You will laugh out loud when looking at what they were concerned with in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickBlasta Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 I mean, the rulebook explicitly allows you to do it. Why be surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandardError Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Someone euthanize me. Ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, NickBlasta said: I mean, the rulebook explicitly allows you to do it. Why be surprised? It allows you to replace small parts, but explicitly disallows grip panels that have a built in thumb rest...but a slide stop thumb rest is allowed? So silly. The truth is it won't matter and no one is going to win because of it, so I don't really care enough to even do anything about it besides make this post, but it's still dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKorn Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I get why this is legal, although I think it’s a bit of a silly loophole. I wouldn't want one on my gun in Production. If I’m going to shoot to slide lock then I want my gun to actually lock back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 41 minutes ago, waktasz said: It allows you to replace small parts, but explicitly disallows grip panels that have a built in thumb rest...but a slide stop thumb rest is allowed? So silly. The truth is it won't matter and no one is going to win because of it, so I don't really care enough to even do anything about it besides make this post, but it's still dumb. Also can't add a grip plug that extends past the bottom of the grip (make shift magwell). I agree not gonna matter. Do they even do equipment checks at lv2+? I've not seen one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, B_RAD said: Do they even do equipment checks at lv2+? I've not seen one. Visual look over the exterior for illegal mods, check safety function, put in box, check weight against state weight on list, shoot chrono. That's the most I've seen for Prod in all the ones I've been to. Edited May 31, 2019 by rowdyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, B_RAD said: Do they even do equipment checks at lv2+? I've not seen one. Does match staff call your name, make you stand at attention and circle you a few times checking all your gear? No. But equipment checks are being done and you don’t even know it until........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 Just now, rowdyb said: Put in box, check weight against state weight on list, shoot chrono. That's the most I've seen for Prod in all the ones I've been to. I would like to think that at least one RO knows the different platforms and what is legal. You don't need a guy on every stage just one guy in the match. But now as long as you don't have something crazy it's probably legal anyways so what's the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtturn Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Go back read the bod minutes or even threads in here about Prod rules 2001 to 2004. You will laugh out loud when looking at what they were concerned with in the future.You have shared before the 2009 BOD's statement of philosophy and intent for production division.I'd like to know when that changed, and for what purpose. Cui bono?I wonder if the current leadership could even formulate a cogent statement of philosophy/ intent for production in 2019. What does production even mean any more?Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Just now, Sarge said: Does match staff call your name, make you stand at attention and circle you a few times checking all your gear? No. But equipment checks are being done and you don’t even know it until........ Ok..... I find that somewhat interesting since RO's can't be expected to be able to identify after market parts. Somehow there supposed to see if my gun is legal while I'm shooting it or while it's holstered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Just now, Sarge said: don’t even know it until........ Like the one time I was at a lvl2 I'd flown to and half way through the match a RO says to me "how do you like shooting Open?" I'd registered Prod and had been shooting Prod all day. He had an issue with my holster placement and chose this way to address it. I had a somewhat tense converstation with him, took a screw driver and moved my holster a little to satisfy him before I shot the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, wtturn said: You have shared before the 2009 BOD's statement of philosophy and intent for production division. I'd like to know when that changed, and for what purpose. Cui bono? yeah, well recently I went back even further than 2009, back to 2002-2004 and looked at stuff about Prod rules at the time. very very interesting! I didn't start shooting uspsa until 2014, so it is quite the time travel effect to talk to people who started in the 90's or people who've been shooting Prod since the early days of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, B_RAD said: I find that somewhat interesting since RO's can't be expected to be able to identify after market parts. Somehow there supposed to see if my gun is legal while I'm shooting it or while it's holstered? That's the crux of their whole argument! hahahaha. They can't know what is or isn't legal so the more they make legal the less they have to look for. To them, this makes their job of officiating the technical rules easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, B_RAD said: Ok..... I find that somewhat interesting since RO's can't be expected to be able to identify after market parts. Somehow there supposed to see if my gun is legal while I'm shooting it or while it's holstered? 3 minutes ago, B_RAD said: Ok..... I find that somewhat interesting since RO's can't be expected to be able to identify after market parts. Somehow there supposed to see if my gun is legal while I'm shooting it or while it's holstered? You said you hadn’t seen an equipment check. You don’t even know you are being checked but you generally are. I have seen several things wrong with shooters guns while holstered. Magwells when there shouldn’t be, guns too low, too far forward, etc. not many are 100% on what is good in Production. In my case when I’m in doubt I call the RM and have him look at your gun. Sometimes it’s an instant,”that’s fine”, and you are none the wiser. Other times he takes you aside and discusses it. Then you know you were checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sarge said: You said you hadn’t seen an equipment check. You don’t even know you are being checked but you generally are. I have seen several things wrong with shooters guns while holstered. Magwells when there shouldn’t be, guns too low, too far forward, etc. not many are 100% on what is good in Production. In my case when I’m in doubt I call the RM and have him look at your gun. Sometimes it’s an instant,”that’s fine”, and you are none the wiser. Other times he takes you aside and discusses it. Then you know you were checked. OK. I’ve only shot like five level two or higher matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 41 minutes ago, wtturn said: 'd like to know when that changed, and for what purpose. Cui bono? copied and pasted from the bod minutes january 2000. so from the very beginning the goal for prod was newness. new shooters, new manufacturers and sponsors. The following Agenda Items regarding the Current RuleBook Changes, Production Class Rules, and Limited 10 Division, were discussed. Mike Martin moved that the Board table the above items until the next meeting. Seconded by Troy McManus. Passed unanimously. These changes to our rulebook needed to have more work done before adopting. The Board is devoted to making sure the production rules are not rushed into. The purpose of production division is to open USPSA to new shooters, manufacturers and sponsors. Due to the short nature of time allowed for the meeting, it was decided to discuss these changes and vote on them at a future meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Read item 8 of the USPSA BOD minutes, regarding Production rules from the very beginning of the division. These are from March of 2000. (There is other good reading in there as well about the ipsc/uspsa divide) Could you imagine enforcing the rules listed in these minutes today for Production????? https://uspsa.org/documents/minutes/20000302.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 For those to lazy to click, back in the day for Prod you could change your: sights exterior finish interior action work add grip tape. NOTHING else exterior could be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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