Derrick-508 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 So...production becomes L10 for Poors?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, rowdyb said: For those to lazy to click, back in the day for Prod you could change your: sights exterior finish interior action work add grip tape. NOTHING else exterior could be changed. And the division wasn't any better or more competitive than now. People like to tinker, and these small parts will have no effect whatsoever on who wins matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, motosapiens said: And the division wasn't any better or more competitive than now. People like to tinker, and these small parts will have no effect whatsoever on who wins matches. They sure won't. Not the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dot Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Getting holsters to accommodate the rules for Prod and CO while still fitting this “*thumb rest [generic]*” could be a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazhi Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Don't care really. Just want 15 rounds in prod. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvDog Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Hmmmm.. should I put my nitrofin on my CO gun now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Dazhi said: Don't care really. Just want 15 rounds in prod. Done. Too many of the rest of us diehard Production shooters would lose interest in the division if they made that mistake, and they know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeIndy Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 This is freaking stupid. You can't use the capacity of the magazine the gun comes with even with ipsc running 15 rd mags but it's cool to run a *thumb rest [generic]*. Well looks like I need a nitro fin for the shadow now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said: Too many of the rest of us diehard Production shooters would lose interest in the division if they made that mistake, and they know it. I'm walking the line of what I really want to say but that'll probably get this thread closed. I'm starting to think, every decision HQ makes is solely based on money. Not what the membership wants. If they think production 15 would bring in more people, or somehow it would play out for more sponsorship/advertising dollars, they'll do it in a heart beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I am against 15 rounds in production and for load em up. I am also pro major in production. Afterall, that is the way they came from the factory. As for the thumb rest, it is discriminatory and should not be allowed until they make it in lefty too actually I don't care about the thumb rest one way or another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, motosapiens said: And the division wasn't any better or more competitive than now. People like to tinker, and these small parts will have no effect whatsoever on who wins matches. i think were saying something similar but going from it at opposite directions. When the division had stricter/simpler equipment rules people still shot the division and the best person, not the best gun won. Now we have a more liberal equipment ruleset by comparison and many people still shoot the division and the best person, not gun wins. (Or I at least hope.... I'd hate for there to be a 'absolute must have or you can't even think of winning' gun in Prod. Favored sure, but not must have.) Early on we got the G34, a gun very popular in the division at the time. Then the Tangfolio spiked as a Prod weapon. Now we have the Shadow 2 expressly made for the game. There have always been favored, specialized guns for the division no doubt about that. While the glazed donut may still be a glazed donut at the end of the day, the number of ingredients chosen in how to make it have changed. Now we have pink frosting and sprinkles where before, and maybe it is nostalgia, we just had a plain glaze. Would it kill the division to go back to the old rule set? No. Does it kill it with the rule set we have now? No. You go back 19 years to the divisions founding and they wanted three things, new shooters, new sponsors, new manufacturers. Glock and CZ got more involved over the years. Both in the number of guns people shot of theirs and in there sponsorship of matches. And Prod is the second most popular division by numbers, nationally, after Limited. So they've been successful with it over the years I'd say. But the "flavor" of the donut has changed, and will change as more and more companies come up with things that fit the rules and people didn't expect. (And of course I have my "if I were king" ideas but that doesn't matter) Edited May 31, 2019 by rowdyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 It is kinda eye rolling to have something expressly forbidden in the rules for being on the frame being allowed on if you mod/dreate it as a removable part. That is a lol if I've ever typed or heard one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, rowdyb said: It is kinda eye rolling to have something expressly forbidden in the rules for being on the frame being allowed on if you mod/dreate it as a removable part. That is a lol if I've ever typed or heard one. So, I wonder if someone made a Glock back strap that extended down past the grip and it made a magwell, would that be legal? I'd say no but the moment someone makes one, I kinda think it'll be allowed. Especially if there's any potential they'll buy add space in the Front Sight. Edited May 31, 2019 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: Too many of the rest of us diehard Production shooters would lose interest in the division if they made that mistake, and they know it. I get what you you're saying.... but Production is pretty darn popular in IPSC (with 15 rounds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Anymore Production is just Limited 10 without the approved list of firearms and no large external modifications (magwells, bolt on gas pedals, etc). I like where it has ended up and apparently so do most shooters as its the most popular division by far. It's like "stock car" racing these days. They kind of look OEM, but aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 28 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said: I get what you you're saying.... but Production is pretty darn popular in IPSC (with 15 rounds). Production is pretty popular in uspsa with 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kraj said: Production is pretty popular in uspsa with 10 What's your point? My comment was a direct response to Memphis's notion of shooters leaving Production due to a change to 15 rnd capacity. While I'm not necessarily in favor of that change, I don't think it would hurt the division participation at all. We really only have one model to test that theory against (IPSC). Personally I would have been more attracted to Prod when I was new to the sport if it had been 15 rnds. That's not necessarily the case now, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 36 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said: What's your point? My comment was a direct response to Memphis's notion of shooters leaving Production due to a change to 15 rnd capacity. While I'm not necessarily in favor of that change, I don't think it would hurt the division participation at all. We really only have one model to test that theory against (IPSC). Personally I would have been more attracted to Prod when I was new to the sport if it had been 15 rnds. That's not necessarily the case now, however. But 10 rnd is a good way to keep things even in a division with so many limited capacity states. yes there is SS and Lim10, but those have a higher starting cost if you want to be competitve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, broadside72 said: Anymore Production is just Limited 10 without the approved list of firearms and no large external modifications (magwells, bolt on gas pedals, etc). I like where it has ended up and apparently so do most shooters as its the most popular division by far. It's like "stock car" racing these days. They kind of look OEM, but aren't. Um, production is not the most popular division, limited is. And production has lost some numbers to CO lately. Someone posted the numbers the other day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Ssanders224 said: What's your point? My comment was a direct response to Memphis's notion of shooters leaving Production due to a change to 15 rnd capacity. While I'm not necessarily in favor of that change, I don't think it would hurt the division participation at all. We really only have one model to test that theory against (IPSC). Personally I would have been more attracted to Prod when I was new to the sport if it had been 15 rnds. That's not necessarily the case now, however. Production is fine how it is. They made enough changes with the last rule change. If you change it to 15 it's basically limited. I can't see a bunch of people deciding the division is more attractive if you have to do 1 less reload a stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 As stated above, getting a holster to fit will be difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 42 minutes ago, RJH said: Um, production is not the most popular division, limited is. And production has lost some numbers to CO lately. Someone posted the numbers the other day Oops, I had them switched. Thought it was the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, broadside72 said: Oops, I had them switched. Thought it was the other way round. It is still pretty big though. Idk if thumbrest, other allowed mods, and upping the mag capacity would help or hurt to be honest. I do know that CO was flopping until the big mags and mods were opened up a little bit. For me, i would perfer production if it was stock mags filled up, catch weight, fit in a box, no optics or comps, major pf allowed (but if kept minor only that would be cool too), and a gun off the production list, the end. But, i am probably in the minority in that thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstange Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, RJH said: Um, production is not the most popular division, limited is. And production has lost some numbers to CO lately. Someone posted the numbers the other day Production is not losing many numbers to CO: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, lstange said: Production is not losing many numbers to CO: Somebody had a different chart/list the other day, i was thinking it showed a bigger drop, can't remember now for sure. What is your chart based on? It is interesting that other than production it looks like the hi cap divisions hold the most shooters. Also interesting that it shows production keeping the highest percentage total. It would be interesting to look at this chart compaired to the numbers posted the other day, but i can't remember what thread they were in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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