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elguapo

Don't be That Guy

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Don't be the new guy who has a dumb, thumbs down grip and changes mags like gramps did in WW2 then has 10 reasons why doing it his way is "better for him" when given friendly advice to improve.

 

You will soon find out all friendly advice vaporizing to nothing and will wonder why you don't seem to advance as fast as you thought you should.

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After shooting competitively for more than five years, including 3 Reg'ls and the Nat'ls,

I bumped into a squad member who gave me three pieces of advice during our "squadding

moments".

 

All three were things that I was already doing, e.g. have my inner belt thru at least three

loops - my belt was already thru four loops.     :surprise:

 

Etc etc etc.

 

I politely informed him, each time he made a suggestion to me, that I was already in

compliance with his suggestions.   But, he persevered and kept coming up with new

ideas to improve my performance.

 

It was a PITA.      :eatdrink:

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I worked at a unionized plant for a few years.  Being in management I had to be more careful when dealing with someone who was having problems (meaning I couldn't just step in, help, give advice, show them how to do things better, etc.)

 

One day I walked by a machine and the operator was really struggling.  I stopped to watch him try, over and over, to get through a part of the start up for his machine.  Did I mention he was really struggling?  The lady running the machine next to his was a very nice, polite, and good operator.  I walked over to her and asked her if she'd seen the guy having a hard time.  She said she did.  Then I asked why no one was helping him get his machine running.  She looked at me and said, "Jim, some people can't be helped."  I nodded and replied, "Oh, one of those guys, huh?"  She sort of smiled and said, "Yeah, one of those guys."  She went back to working around her machine and I headed to the supervisor's office to let him know he needed to get that guy some help.  Supervisor's had authority/responsibility us lowly engineers did not.

 

And the OP's comments reminds me of a cousin.  No matter what he's doing wrong, when you try to help him, what you hear is, "I know cousin, but...…" and he keeps on doing it his way.

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The example in the OP is real and recent, like yesterday recent.

 

From now on this is me

giphy.gif

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Don't be the new guy who has a dumb, thumbs down grip and changes mags like gramps did in WW2 then has 10 reasons why doing it his way is "better for him" when given friendly advice to improve.
 
You will soon find out all friendly advice vaporizing to nothing and will wonder why you don't seem to advance as fast as you thought you should.


Our local group is more of a “tough love” kind of help. If you f@ck up or do something dumb, someone better than you will tell you that you did, straight up. Surprisingly no one has thrown a hissy fit over it yet that I know of, even with all of the sensitivity out there.

The new shooters learn quickly to watch the better guys/gals (the ones I’m still chasing in the standings), and get an idea on what to do and why to do it that way, and it works out for everyone in the end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

After shooting competitively for more than five years, including 3 Reg'ls and the Nat'ls,

I bumped into a squad member who gave me three pieces of advice during our "squadding

moments".

 

All three were things that I was already doing, e.g. have my inner belt thru at least three

loops - my belt was already thru four loops.     :surprise:

 

Etc etc etc.

 

I politely informed him, each time he made a suggestion to me, that I was already in

compliance with his suggestions.   But, he persevered and kept coming up with new

ideas to improve my performance.

 

It was a PITA.      :eatdrink:

 

That's not quite the same

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3 hours ago, theblacklabel18 said:

 


Our local group is more of a “tough love” kind of help. If you f@ck up or do something dumb, someone better than you will tell you that you did, straight up. Surprisingly no one has thrown a hissy fit over it yet that I know of, even with all of the sensitivity out there.

The new shooters learn quickly to watch the better guys/gals (the ones I’m still chasing in the standings), and get an idea on what to do and why to do it that way, and it works out for everyone in the end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I normally shy away from giving advice to anyone for two reasons: I'm not that good and a lot of people don't want to listen.

 

Well, this noob seemed very eager to play and asked for tips.  But when the tips contradicted the way he's used to gripping the gun or reloading (his two most glaring technical faults) he had ready reasons why he's doing what he's doing.

 

Ok bro, rock on.

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I normally shy away from giving advice to anyone for two reasons: I'm not that good and a lot of people don't want to listen.
 
Well, this noob seemed very eager to play and asked for tips.  But when the tips contradicted the way he's used to gripping the gun or reloading (his two most glaring technical faults) he had ready reasons why he's doing what he's doing.
 
Ok bro, rock on.


I’m sure a nice slice of humble pie will stop the self-inflicted ego battle. I experienced the same thing when I first started USPSA. The ever popular “I just got my ass whooped, so I should probably shut up and listen to these people “ situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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23 hours ago, theblacklabel18 said:

I’m sure a nice slice of humble pie will stop the self-inflicted ego battle. 

 

 

I'm not so sure he's that self-aware

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On 4/2/2019 at 11:16 AM, elguapo said:

 

That's not quite the same

 

Same subject :   People's reactions to unsolicited advice.

 

When I first got started, I offered some "insights" to beginners, and

was usually shooed off.

 

I met two different people who shot Very Fast, and missed a LOT.

I told them of my 2nd shoot, where I shot Very Fast, and missed

a lot, and then slowed down and hit more.   And they both got up

and SHOT VERY FAST, again, and MISSED a LOT, again.

 

So, I stopped giving unsolicited advice.   Happy to provide solicited

advice, but NOT unsolicited....    :) 

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I hold a Thursday Night match at my local range on the 1st and 3rd Thursday of the month.

 

We promote this match as a learning match for new shooters.  When I make the Squads I always put the new people in my squad.

 

i enjoy training and helping people that want to learn and join the sport.

 

 

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Was at a match awhile back where they had a stage of 1 draw/shot on an 18" x 24" plate at 7 or 8 yd. 5 runs best 4 total for score. The local "smartest kid in the class" sat near the shooting box giving advice AS PEOPLE SHOT!!

 

"You know if you would do this or that you would shave a tenth every time, etc, etc, etc"

"If you start with your hands here you can take off 2/10 easy!"

Etc.

I come up and he says "You must realize you will never be as fast with that revolver as a good auto guy?"

I shoot and beat his time!

As I walk away I say, "Good thing no good auto guys showed up today."

He doesn't help me much anymore,,,

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How about start with "would you like some outside perspective?" or "can I offer some advice on X?" rather than going in totally unsolicited. Unsolicited is often seen as condescending.

Other POV is, what concern of yours is it too offer advice to someone not asking for it (not safety related of course, then just tell them)

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It’s not about unsolicited advice. It’s about asking for advice and when given saying why you doing what you’re doing. Ok, cool. 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/2/2019 at 4:09 AM, elguapo said:

Don't be the new guy who has a dumb, thumbs down grip and changes mags like gramps did in WW2 then has 10 reasons why doing it his way is "better for him" when given friendly advice to improve.

 

You will soon find out all friendly advice vaporizing to nothing and will wonder why you don't seem to advance as fast as you thought you should.

 

You are right too. New guy shoots with us, has his thumb behind the trigger. Wouldn't take advice. Thumb got hammered by the slide while practicing. He learned that one. But does not ask for advice. What do you do? Try and help if he only is willing to take advice. Won't listen, so we leave him be.

 

Some people rather muck and monkey with things and see what works. It's like that dude on "The Woodwright's Shop". Every saw blade, planer blade, knife edge, he has to run his finger over the edges, explaining to his viewers how the blade works. I cringe, he has to finger f**k every sharp object available.

 

Others never touch anything until they understand the what, why and how. It's just how people are. It's ok to ask questions. Hell, their are tons of videos online that teach anything from cooking to dropping a tranny (the automotive type tranny, geesh 🤨).

Edited by Lastcat

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1 hour ago, broadside72 said:

How about start with "would you like some outside perspective?" or "can I offer some advice on X?" rather than going in totally unsolicited. Unsolicited is often seen as condescending.

I have found that making some casual conversation with someone for a while and then offering a "so how did you feel your run went here" or something similar is much better received than a cold opener

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I have found that making some casual conversation with someone for a while and then offering a "so how did you feel your run went here" or something similar is much better received than a cold opener
I agree, that's why you should talk to the people in your squad and be social, to a point. Then it's not cold.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, broadside72 said:
2 hours ago, TrackCage said:
I have found that making some casual conversation with someone for a while and then offering a "so how did you feel your run went here" or something similar is much better received than a cold opener

I agree, that's why you should talk to the people in your squad and be social, to a point. Then it's not cold.

+1. Helping new shooters is a good thing. Being overbearing about it is a bad thing. If you are shooting well, and have established casual squad mate conversation with the individual, they will be far more receptive to your advice (and might actually ask for it... which is a major compliment to you)  than if you just walk up and start telling them "how they should be doing it".

 

There is a difference between helpful & welcome advice... and overbearing behavior. The individual has to be willing to consider your advice. That decision is often made based upon how well they see you are shooting, your approach, and their eagerness to learn.

 

 

 

 

Edited by GOF

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On 5/27/2019 at 10:32 AM, broadside72 said:

How about start with "would you like some outside perspective?" or "can I offer some advice on X?" rather than going in totally unsolicited. Unsolicited is often seen as condescending.

Other POV is, what concern of yours is it too offer advice to someone not asking for it (not safety related of course, then just tell them)

You didn't get my point

 

 

On 5/27/2019 at 10:38 AM, HoMiE said:

It’s not about unsolicited advice. It’s about asking for advice and when given saying why you doing what you’re doing. Ok, cool. 

 

You did

 

Carry on

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