Need Coated 124’s recommendation

[GMP]

FYI, the .358 size Brazos 125gs shoot excellent and appear to solve the leading issue in my S2 and P09. 

[jpm2953]

My Brazos .356" 125gr came in today. They look good. Haven't measured any yet. Will load some tonight.

 

I am getting pretty good leading with the Gallants I have been using. Have to scrub my bore after every practice or match. The 125gr gallants also are 128-130gr. Very inconsistent. Might have just gotten a bad batch.

[Li02liberty]

I just got my brazos order in the mail today. Very fast shipping!! I ordered it Thursday night. I got the 125’s and 145’s, going to load some up tonight and hopefully hit the range on Wednesday to see how they shoot out of the Q5. 

[GMP]

All .356 / .357 coated bullets I have tried of various brands have leaded badly in my guns despite good loading practice.  The .358s did the trick.  My barrels are .3555 - .356.  The bullets obviously need to be .002" + larger in OD.  

[jpm2953]

20 minutes ago, GMP said:

All .356 / .357 coated bullets I have tried of various brands have leaded badly in my guns despite good loading practice.  The .358s did the trick.  My barrels are .3555 - .356.  The bullets obviously need to be .002" + larger in OD.  

I’ve never slugged my Barrel. I’ve shot thousands(15k) of summers enterprises that come out .356 with zero leading. 

These gallants are .355 and lead every couple hundred rounds. 

[GMP]

What gun?  CZs and Berettas run big.  .356 SNS 125g were so bad I stopped shooting after 100 rnds. 

 

What would be interesting is a hollow base coated bullet.  Might make sizing less critical. 

[Lightfoot]

I've been busy working, shooting, vacationing and casting/shipping bullets lately.   I haven't checked in on this thread in a while.  Paul and I (Steve) are the primary owners of Brazos Bullets.  We both have "day jobs" too.  We've recently hired help to get orders out more promptly and to get orders cast and packed in shorter order.  For the most part it's been successful.  We've been fighting our equipment and finally gave up on two casting machines and sent them back to the mfg for a full inspection and re-build as needed.  We're running a single caster about 16 hours per day 6-7 days a week to keep up with demand.  So we are really trying to serve customers as quickly as possible.  I apologize that we are sometimes late in shipping and replying to inquiries.  Part of that was due to a failed attempt at hiring some help with both shipping and customer service. 

 

A few observations and announcements after about 3-4 months into the business:

• Our 9mm 125 grain coated bullets are either  the most awesome shooting bullets ever or they lead barrels.  .357" or .358" sized projectiles seem to fix the issue.  
• NLG bullets seem to be more forgiving as to the leading issue.   I'm not ready to call it a rule, but it seems to be the case.  Now I don't know if the LG vs NLG accuracy tests favor one over the other across the board, but in 45 acp I do believe LG is more accurate.  We've only had one report of a NLG bullet leading.  Curious too though, we've had so many reports of  exceptional accuracy of the LG 125 grain 9mm  and really no one has commented on the exceptional accuracy of any or our other 9mm profiles.  Makes me think LG bullets shoot the best but only when precisely loaded and matched to the firearm. 
• 125 grain NLG moulds will be the next purchase.  We'd like to offer this option for those who need this size and might benefit from a likely easier load recipe.  We will still offer the LG version.
• 300 blackout subsonic 215 grain tips are almost ready to release!
• The National Champion Bullseye shooter for the last two years in a row is now shooting our 45 180 grain coated bullets and is super pleased with them.  He bought from us at full price and as soon as we realized that Jon Shue just bought our bullets we bit our lips and waited for feedback.  He let us know that they shot wonderfully and we obviously offered a sponsorship.  This is relevant because very few of us can shoot as accurately as him.  For a guy like Shue, the bullet quality matters.  For me, it kinda matters, but only when I'm at the top of my game.  My 7's don't become 10's due to my bullet maker.  But Jon's scratch 10's may well be due to the quality of our bullets.  We're just gleaming with pride to know that when precision matters, Brazos Bullets are the top choice.
• Our customers are the best.  We have had so many wonderful customers offer to help us in many ways.  From suggestions on website issues, to new bullet profiles, to actually promoting our brand with their friends, we are truly fortunate to have such a loyal customer base in such a short period.  
• This forum and this thread has been very helpful to our success and growth.  I will be contacting the admins about becoming an advertiser/sponsor so we can continue to promote our bullets and our low prices without bending or breaking forum rules. 

So, Paul and I would like to thank each of you for trying us out and helping spread the word.  Don't hesitate to contact us with any need or question.

 

Steve

[jpm2953]

Loaded up some of the Brazos last night. Need to bump up the powder charge. First guess was 124.6pf. Very impressed with the accuracy so far. Had 3 touching at 12 yards. Off hand. 

I’ll load up some more this afternoon and go try it again. Put it on bags at 25 yards. 

First load was 4.0gr HP-38 1.115”. I’ll go 4.2 and report back. 

[GMP]

The key is having a large enough dia bullet to seal properly in the barrel when you squeeze the trigger.  Most European 9s from what I see are larger than .355.  .3555+ for all I have measured.  Having the larger sized bullets easily available is a winner for you guys.   But, the reloader has to do his part too with proper technique.   A .358 will not fix anything loaded too tight and swagged down from too small an expander.   I think the 125g LG bullets may be more prone to this due to the lower drive band being easier to swage down in too tight a case than a solid NLG dia.  This I have seen by intentionally dropping expander sizes an experiment.  The 9mm runs a high pressure so any flaw is going to be exploited faster than say in the .45. 

[GMP]

13 minutes ago, jpm2953 said:

Loaded up some of the Brazos last night. Need to bump up the powder charge. First guess was 124.6pf. Very impressed with the accuracy so far. Had 3 touching at 12 yards. Off hand. 

I’ll load up some more this afternoon and go try it again. Put it on bags at 25 yards. 

First load was 4.0gr HP-38 1.115”. I’ll go 4.2 and report back. 

I'm at 4.0g Sport Pistol @ 1.130 OAL.  Most chew a big hole @ 15 yrds, off hand, all in 2".  This is in my Shadow 2.  No chrono yet but this charge with RMR 124g FMJ at a similar seating depth ran around 130.  They feel strong enough and primers are just starting to flatten in the center a bit.  I'm inclined to drop a tenth or two and try that as well.

[jpm2953]

13 minutes ago, GMP said:

I'm at 4.0g Sport Pistol @ 1.130 OAL.  Most chew a big hole @ 15 yrds, off hand, all in 2".  This is in my Shadow 2.  No chrono yet but this charge with RMR 124g FMJ at a similar seating depth ran around 130.  They feel strong enough and primers are just starting to flatten in the center a bit.  I'm inclined to drop a tenth or two and try that as well.

I just bought a jug of sport pistol. I’ve heard good things about it. Still have 3lbs of HP 38 to burn through 

[Yondering]

14 hours ago, Lightfoot said:

 

• NLG bullets seem to be more forgiving as to the leading issue.   I'm not ready to call it a rule, but it seems to be the case.  Now I don't know if the LG vs NLG accuracy tests favor one over the other across the board, but in 45 acp I do believe LG is more accurate.  We've only had one report of a NLG bullet leading.  Curious too though, we've had so many reports of  exceptional accuracy of the LG 125 grain 9mm  and really no one has commented on the exceptional accuracy of any or our other 9mm profiles.  Makes me think LG bullets shoot the best but only when precisely loaded and matched to the firearm. 

 

I cast and coat my own bullets, but my personal experience matches what you're saying here - bullets without a lube groove tend to seal the bore better/easier than those with lube grooves. I have removed the lube grooves from most of my high-use bullet molds because of that advantage, and the grooves are completely unnecessary with coated bullets anyway, being a leftover artifact of wax lubed bullets. 

[Yondering]

3 hours ago, GMP said:

The key is having a large enough dia bullet to seal properly in the barrel when you squeeze the trigger.  Most European 9s from what I see are larger than .355.  .3555+ for all I have measured. 

 

I have one Glock 19 barrel (2nd or 3rd year gen 4 production, made in Austria) with .357" groove diameter, and have slugged a couple other Euro 9 barrels in the .356" range.

It's also important to note that the chamber throat diameter is more important than bore diameter for choosing bullet size - the throat is often .001-.002" larger than the bore, and I prefer a bullet diameter that perfectly fits the throat or slightly larger. 

 

My personal rule for lead bullets (either coated, lubed, or plated) - if in doubt, use a larger size. The upper limit for bullet diameter is the chamber dimensions; loaded rounds shouldn't be a tight fit in the chamber, but below that point it's pretty safe to use large diameters. (Not talking about jacketed bullets here!) 

 

The point of all that is to say this: if I were ordering lead bullets from Brazos or anyone else and didn't know my bore and throat dimensions, I'd start with .358" diameter, and then maybe try some smaller sizes for accuracy after that. 

 

Hope that helps.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Yondering

[GMP]

25 minutes ago, Yondering said:

 

I have one Glock 19 barrel (2nd or 3rd year gen 4 production, made in Austria) with .357" groove diameter, and have slugged a couple other Euro 9 barrels in the .356" range.

It's also important to note that the chamber throat diameter is more important than bore diameter for choosing bullet size - the throat is often .001-.002" larger than the bore, and I prefer a bullet diameter that perfectly fits the throat or slightly larger. 

 

My personal rule for lead bullets (either coated, lubed, or plated) - if in doubt, use a larger size. The upper limit for bullet diameter is the chamber dimensions; loaded rounds shouldn't be a tight fit in the chamber, but below that point it's pretty safe to use large diameters. (Not talking about jacketed bullets here!) 

 

The point of all that is to say this: if I were ordering lead bullets from Brazos or anyone else and didn't know my bore and throat dimensions, I'd start with .358" diameter, and then maybe try some smaller sizes for accuracy after that. 

 

Hope that helps.

Yeah I agree 100%.  .358 should be more common among the vendors.  I suspect it has a lot to do with the size as cast from the 9mm profile molds though.  I have a sample pack of .358 truncated cone bullets on the way from Brazos.  These are also available in .359 if you have a real problem with a large bore.  I'll see how they load/shoot compared to the 125 RN and let you know. 

[jcc7x7]

When I started loading 45 years ago, yes it pains me to say that!

It was common practice to go at least .001 over but usually .002 with lead bullets.

Some where along the line we went smaller, which seemed to work with harder lead alloy and HyTec or other coatings.

I shoot mostly Bayou at .358 out of all of my 9's now, including open guns without problems or leading.

 

I bought a bag of Brazos and got great accuracy but did get some leading.

Ordered two more bags of the 125gr RN, my go to bullet, in .357 and just as accurate and less leading.

When I ordered it only showed 356 & 357 as options.

I'm calling or emailing first next time and going to get .358's.  I bet even with the softer alloy Brazos uses they'll

work fine in my minor guns.

 

Just as a point of info.  Yes I did check if they were being swaged or if the crimp was to tight, neither was a problem.

 

Guys (Brazos) if you go to a 125 NLG see if the same shape is available atsthe current RN, it's a beauty ! 

[jpm2953]

Brazos report. 

I got the 125gr LG RN. Shot 300rds. Zero leading out of my Sig X5. 

First run was 4.2gr HP38 at 1.115”. Absolutely terrible accuracy. Maybe a 10” group at 10 yards. Rounds were tumbling. 

 

Went home and loaded 100 more at 1.150” and retried at the range. Wound up with a 1.5” group at 20 yards. Very impressed with the accuracy from these bullets. Just had to get the right recipe for this gun. 

 

The 1.115” load shots a one hole group from my M&P. So weird. 

 

Also super excited about no leading!!!! I have had a terrible time with the last batch of Gallants

[GMP]

Today I loaded 200 rnds of Brazos 125g TC bullets.  These are intended for .38 Special, have more drive band area, a blunt nose, and needed to be loaded short in 9mm for my CZs.  I'm at 1.030" with 3.8g of Sport Pistol.  These shot excellent from my Shadow 2 and P09.  The P09 in particular really liked this bullet.  I also loaded another 100 rnds of the Brazos 125 g RN.  These shoot equally well in the S2.  Both bullets were sized to .358.  No leading in either gun.  

[Joedirt199]

Sounds like these bullets run a little on the soft side since people are jumping up in the diameter to prevent leading and improve accuracy. Wonder how close they really are to 13 brinell hardness.

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Has anyone been shooting these bullets out Glock barrels? I’m curious how they have performed, and which dia. I should get. Iv always shot .356 plated bullets so I’m new to the whole coated game.

[jpm2953]

300 more rounds of the brazos .356 125’s today. Starting to see some minor leading(600 rounds total) 

im about to give up on coated lead and go back to plated. 

[Yondering]

37 minutes ago, jpm2953 said:

300 more rounds of the brazos .356 125’s today. Starting to see some minor leading(600 rounds total) 

im about to give up on coated lead and go back to plated. 

 

I shoot thousands of coated cast bullets every year from my pistols (Glock and others) with no leading or accuracy issues, but that's because I use large enough bullet diameters to work correctly. I'd expect some leading and accuracy issues with .356" bullets in most of my 9mm pistols; for .355" bores I want at least .357" and preferably .358" diameter bullets.

 

Try a larger diameter, you should have much better results. For this application, size does matter. 

[looking4reloadingdeals]

 
I shoot thousands of coated cast bullets every year from my pistols (Glock and others) with no leading or accuracy issues, but that's because I use large enough bullet diameters to work correctly. I'd expect some leading and accuracy issues with .356" bullets in most of my 9mm pistols; for .355" bores I want at least .357" and preferably .358" diameter bullets.
 
Try a larger diameter, you should have much better results. For this application, size does matter. 

So if Iv never shot coated before and never slugged my barrel should I start at .357 or .358 for my glocks?


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[Yondering]

I would go with .358". That's what I use in my Glocks. 

[jpm2953]

36 minutes ago, Yondering said:

 

I shoot thousands of coated cast bullets every year from my pistols (Glock and others) with no leading or accuracy issues, but that's because I use large enough bullet diameters to work correctly. I'd expect some leading and accuracy issues with .356" bullets in most of my 9mm pistols; for .355" bores I want at least .357" and preferably .358" diameter bullets.

 

Try a larger diameter, you should have much better results. For this application, size does matter. 

I have shot close to 30k of coated lead the past two years. All were either Summer enterprises or BBI. Both were .356. The summers are 18 brinell hardness where as the Brazos are 13. I think that may be the difference. 

I have had zero leading until this year. 4 different guns. All leaded with Gallants. Just not seeing some lead with the Brazos. 

 

But....... I might try .357’s next time. 

[looking4reloadingdeals]

I would go with .358". That's what I use in my Glocks. 

What is the reason to use an oversized projectile? It would seem like it would make leading worse, not better. I could see how it helps with accuracy however.


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