1050 or another 650

[XL6504ME]

I'm having a hard time deciding ,  I currently have a 650 that I use for 9 mm and .357 sig with a bullet feeder I built on my cnc router that works like a dream.  I'm shooting more out of my AR .223 so I'm thinking 1050 mainly because of the swage.   I know I can get a hand model from dillion or that after market one  but a 700 dollar difference between the 650 and 1050 is not chump change.    I'm still going to have to get a auto trimmer as all my once fired cases are 10 to 15 thousands long before resizing them which I find odd.  

I have never used or even seen a 1050 up close was hoping my local dealer would have one or knew of someone but he said he has only sold one in the last 2 years.  need some help here convincing myself the 1050 is the way to go.    considered doing the caliber conversion but would just like to leave things alone as the 650 is working perfect. 

 

Thanks !!

Edited November 13, 2018 by XL6504ME

[dansedgli]

Can you trim on a 650?

[HesedTech]

1050!!!!!

 

I have a fully decked out 650 with a Mark 7 drive and had I known what I know now I would have skipped the 650 and gone right to the 1050. I ordered a 1050 and it is on its way. Why?

 

Two reasons:

1. Swager (the Swage it for the 650 just doesn’t cut it).

2. Priming system. The 650 rotary system seems to require a bit more maintenance and is prone to complete detonation (yes the 1050 can boom also, but not quite as easily and I was told that by a Dillon salesman while I was ordering  parts for my primer mag).

 

Ok three reasons (and maybe more)

3. Tool head has more locations available. 

4. Mark 7 and Ammobot auto drives are available. 

....

 

Order the 1050. 

 

[MemphisMechanic]

I loaded on a 650 for ten years. Converted to a 1050 last month.

 

I wish I would have bought one 9 years ago. If I had known? I would have!

 

That said? Caliber conversions take twice as long. Or longer: you’re pretty much rebuilding the press if going from small to large primer... so factor that in as well.

 

If you’ll load thousands of rounds in a aingle caliber before switching? 1050. No question.

[oteroman]

“Rebuilding the press”
(To switch priming system)
That was harsh
30 mins max.
I load usually a stash of ammo before switching the priming system. By that time, it is time to clean the priming slide area anyway.


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[Robertcsd]

Even with a 1050 you will still need to preprocess you brass before reloading. 1st size and swage only, then 2nd use the Dillon trim die and 3rd load your cass. I use 2 tool heads, actually 1 extra that can be switched between different calibers and a dedicated one for reloading 223. The dedicated one has a Lee decapping die in place of the sizing die and the backer die removed. (used only when swaging) and replaced with the M die. 1st run - the empty tool head gets the de-capping die and backer die for swaging. 2nd run - Just the trimmer die and back off the swager. (need un-sized cases for the trimmer die to hold cases) 3rd run - Sizing die and put Lyman "M" die in place of backer die with swage rod backed off,  set primers, powder charge, place bullet, seat bullet and finally crimp case.

With the 650 you can do the same thing at a much lower cost with a super swage 600 to swage the case. I have both machines but my 1050 has the Mark7 auto drive and Mr Bullet feeder to help out. I really like the 650 - the 1050 is a brute of a machine.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Robertcsd
typo

[MemphisMechanic]

6 hours ago, oteroman said:

“Rebuilding the press”
(To switch priming system)

That was harsh
30 mins max.

 

Compare that half hour to what’s required for a 650  

 

The best thing about the 1050 for loading a bilion rounds is that the shellplate doesn’t move up and down, and the ram goes through the center of it. The worst thing about the 1050 for swapping calibers is that the shellplate doesn’t move up and down, and the ram goes through the center of it.

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[DWS]

Curious to see which one the OP decides to go with.

 

I don't know if I've ever read a post of someone "regretting" buying a 1050 ... If anything, the consensus seems to be "I wish I would have bought it sooner"

 

That said, Dillon makes very fine products 550, 650 or their King Of The Hill 1050

[Hi-Power Jack]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 12:18 AM, XL6504ME said:

 I'm shooting more .223 so I'm thinking 1050 mainly because of the swage. 

 

With current prices of ammo, Not Sure it's worth reloading .223 ???

 

The price of a 1050 and other stuff for reloading .223, will buy you almost

10,000 rounds of .223 ammo.

 

And, you don't save All That Much by reloading.

 

Just a thought.      

[XL6504ME]

I know it will take 10 k rounds to break even and that seemed like allot when I bought the 650 but it only took about two years loading the 9 mm to break even .   I know ammo is fairly cheap now but there were times that you couldn't find any.     I did go ahead and order the1050 and if it doesn't work out on the .223 I will get a 9 mm conversion or whatever I'm shooting at the time and load with that.    the good thing about Dillon is they seem to retain there value pretty well.  

[DWS]

On 11/18/2018 at 5:15 PM, XL6504ME said:

the good thing about Dillon is they seem to retain there value pretty well.  

True !

 

Good choice on the 1050 !

[stick]

I only have a 650.  I use separate tool heads for 223.  One tool head has the RT1500 trimmer, decapping die and sizing die.  Yes, I also replace the primer punch with the Swage-it.  Is is perfect? no it's not, but it works well enough for my application.  If you already have the bullet feeder on your 650, why not just get the rifle conversion kit for the MBF, RT1500 and swap it on the 650?  The difference in money you save will buy a lot of components for whatever caliber you decide to shoot.

[camaross400]

Even with a 1050 you will still need to preprocess you brass before reloading. 1st size and swage only, then 2nd use the Dillon trim die and 3rd load your cass. I use 2 tool heads, actually 1 extra that can be switched between different calibers and a dedicated one for reloading 223. The dedicated one has a Lee decapping die in place of the sizing die and the backer die removed. (used only when swaging) and replaced with the M die. 1st run - the empty tool head gets the de-capping die and backer die for swaging. 2nd run - Just the trimmer die and back off the swager. (need un-sized cases for the trimmer die to hold cases) 3rd run - Sizing die and put Lyman "M" die in place of backer die with swage rod backed off,  set primers, powder charge, place bullet, seat bullet and finally crimp case.
With the 650 you can do the same thing at a much lower cost with a super swage 600 to swage the case. I have both machines but my 1050 has the Mark7 auto drive and Mr Bullet feeder to help out. I really like the 650 - the 1050 is a brute of a machine.

Why do you process brass in two runs? Does this help with the process? I am always interested in hearing how people prep and load rifle.

I currently load in two runs.
Processing Brass: I currently run the decapping die in Station 2, swage die in Station 3, Dillon trim die in Station 6, sizing die in Station 8.
Loading: Station 2 M Die, Station 3: Swage Die with rod backed off, Station 4: priming, Station 5: Powder, Station 6: Mr. Bulletfeeder, Station 7:Seating Die, Station 8: Crimp


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[camaross400]

I know it will take 10 k rounds to break even and that seemed like allot when I bought the 650 but it only took about two years loading the 9 mm to break even .   I know ammo is fairly cheap now but there were times that you couldn't find any.     I did go ahead and order the1050 and if it doesn't work out on the .223 I will get a 9 mm conversion or whatever I'm shooting at the time and load with that.    the good thing about Dillon is they seem to retain there value pretty well.  

Many people say it is not worth it to load 223, and I agree when loading up the 55gr bullets. However, I load 68gr which can get quite expensive when trying to purchase it from a store. I save quite a bit loading it myself.


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[Mac_Menamy]

A lot of people I have talked say if you come to this decision to always go big. This isn’t just for the 1050, but even if you are thinking 650 to 550 that you should always go bigger than you think you need and it will work out just fine. 

[Laxman2809]

On 11/13/2018 at 3:36 PM, Robertcsd said:

Even with a 1050 you will still need to preprocess you brass before reloading. 1st size and swage only, then 2nd use the Dillon trim die and 3rd load your cass. I use 2 tool heads, actually 1 extra that can be switched between different calibers and a dedicated one for reloading 223. The dedicated one has a Lee decapping die in place of the sizing die and the backer die removed. (used only when swaging) and replaced with the M die. 1st run - the empty tool head gets the de-capping die and backer die for swaging. 2nd run - Just the trimmer die and back off the swager. (need un-sized cases for the trimmer die to hold cases) 3rd run - Sizing die and put Lyman "M" die in place of backer die with swage rod backed off,  set primers, powder charge, place bullet, seat bullet and finally crimp case.

With the 650 you can do the same thing at a much lower cost with a super swage 600 to swage the case. I have both machines but my 1050 has the Mark7 auto drive and Mr Bullet feeder to help out. I really like the 650 - the 1050 is a brute of a machine.

 

I have a 1050, upgrading from an LnL. Its an awesome machine.

[Robertcsd]

6 hours ago, camaross400 said:

Why do you process brass in two runs? Does this help with the process? I am always interested in hearing how people prep and load rifle.

I currently load in two runs.
Processing Brass: I currently run the decapping die in Station 2, swage die in Station 3, Dillon trim die in Station 6, sizing die in Station 8.
Loading: Station 2 M Die, Station 3: Swage Die with rod backed off, Station 4: priming, Station 5: Powder, Station 6: Mr. Bulletfeeder, Station 7:Seating Die, Station 8: Crimp


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Check out Fast & Friendly brass website then Tips and Tricks. They talk about the reasons too. The swage process changes heights of the ram when the press is fully closed due to swaging needs. When trimming I encounter height variations when swaging too. Heck, I still have a hard time maintaining consistent trim heights just running the trim die by itself. I may need to try another cutter on the Dillon trimmer - not sure. On the 650 I would bump the cutter twice and it worked well. The 1050 has the Mark 7 auto-drive and it just goes up and down one time - as you know. I just have to mess with it more to get it right. I run batches of 1K at a time so it takes a while to use it up before I try it again.

[tacomandood]

On 11/20/2018 at 5:54 AM, camaross400 said:

Why do you process brass in two runs? Does this help with the process? I am always interested in hearing how people prep and load rifle.

I currently load in two runs.
Processing Brass: I currently run the decapping die in Station 2, swage die in Station 3, Dillon trim die in Station 6, sizing die in Station 8.
Loading: Station 2 M Die, Station 3: Swage Die with rod backed off, Station 4: priming, Station 5: Powder, Station 6: Mr. Bulletfeeder, Station 7:Seating Die, Station 8: Crimp


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I'll throw my input into the mix here, even though I'm only reloading pistol brass.

 

For a little while (like two weeks) I tried loading on the 1050 without any brass prep at all. The issue with this was that the resizing, especially without any case lube, required a good deal of force. Normally, that's not an issue, but with the 1050 there are so many moving parts and operations happening at the same time that it gets harder to "feel" when something is wrong with the press.

 

For example, the swage in station 3 is great for catching any primers that didn't fully pop out. If a primer is left in the brass, the swage rod will smash it up and you'll get a kind of "spongy" feel at the bottom of the stroke. Knowing this now, I haven't missed a stuck primer in a while, but when I first tried loading on the 1050 without prepping brass, I would be focusing on exerting so much force for resizing that I'd miss the spongy feel of a stuck primer. I would have issues almost every 50 rounds once they hit the priming station, and get either a smashed primer or a case that got pushed out of the shell plate and damaged the lips. Since the primer slide has such tight tolerances, this would jam up the whole machine and create inconsistent primer seating until I took the assembly apart and cleaned it again.

 

As far as the other stations go, it's been better to have a controlled powder drop than to have to exert a ton of pressure on resizing. Same goes for having a controlled bullet seat as well. So now, I simply do a couple brass prep runs on my 1050 before getting a good loading session in. Setting it up for brass prep is as easy as removing the powder drop, the crimp die, and making sure there aren't any primers loaded. Then, I just do dry tumble of my brass to knock of the majority of dirt and dust, lube the cases, and run them through a few thousand at a time. After the brass is resized and deprimed, I run them through my wet tumbler to clean out the primer pockets and remove any leftover case lube.

 

The brass processing sucks since I have limited time to reload (2-5 hours per week), but once I've got at least a 5gal bucket of brass more than half full I'm set to go for at least about a month depending on caliber. With the whole process running smoother overall, I'm able to hit about 600-700 rounds per hour without breaking a sweat. Eventually, I'll get a bullet feeder, and after that, one of them fancy pants Mark 7s after I finish my undergraduate degree and start making decent money lol.

[camaross400]

Check out Fast & Friendly brass website then Tips and Tricks. They talk about the reasons too. The swage process changes heights of the ram when the press is fully closed due to swaging needs. When trimming I encounter height variations when swaging too. Heck, I still have a hard time maintaining consistent trim heights just running the trim die by itself. I may need to try another cutter on the Dillon trimmer - not sure. On the 650 I would bump the cutter twice and it worked well. The 1050 has the Mark 7 auto-drive and it just goes up and down one time - as you know. I just have to mess with it more to get it right. I run batches of 1K at a time so it takes a while to use it up before I try it again.

I will try your set up to see if it is an improvement. Thanks.


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[pjb45]

10,000 is a year's worth of reloading for some.

I have a 1050.  I did load 223.  

1. Case prep is paramount.  I used a super swage first. You might separate your brass as as brass is different once its been fired.   I like the heavy duty fell of it.  I also used an extra tool head for using the Dillon trimmer ( I even set up a vacuum attachment)! 

2. Case prep is still paramount.  Spend the time to do it right.

3. Get great dies.  This made things easier for me.

 

I tried my friends 650 for regular reloading.  i got a deal on a used 1050 and have never ever regretted going to the 1050.  I purchased extra tool heads so I could do 9mm, 40, and 223.  After the first conversion session all subsequent sessions were a piece of cake.  Not as easy as the 650 but easy.

[Clint U66]

I have to agree with the majority here.......go with the 1050!!

 

I started on a 650 and bought a second one a year or so later.  I always thought that was "good enough" but I finally broke down and got a 1050.  Needless to say, I regret not purchasing the 1050 when I started.  Until you have experience with both you don't realize how much better the 1050 is.  That being said, ignore the price difference and just go with the 1050.........you wont regret it.