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At a match on Saturday a experience shooter had an accidental discharge while reloading his shotgun. The shot hit the berm on the other side of the stage and it started a big controversy if the person should have been DQed up or not. Someone got out the 3GN rule book and it was as clear as mud. One paragraph states a accidental discharge is a disqualification but another paragraph has stipulations one where the shot has to hit. They decided to let the person finish the day but I was wondering if anyone has a definitive explanation when/if someone should be DQed. 

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If he was loading the gun it would be really unusual for that to be an "aimed" or intended shot.  I'd vote DQ.

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2.0 DISQUALIFICATIONS
A Disqualification (DQ) will result in complete disqualification from the event and the competitor will not be allowed to continue.
2.2.3 A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a firearm after the "Make Ready" command and before
the "Range is Clear" command.

 

seems pretty clear that letting one go while reloading is a dq.

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8 hours ago, davsco said:

2.0 DISQUALIFICATIONS
A Disqualification (DQ) will result in complete disqualification from the event and the competitor will not be allowed to continue.
2.2.3 A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a firearm after the "Make Ready" command and before
the "Range is Clear" command.

 

seems pretty clear that letting one go while reloading is a dq.

I thought it was clear too that it would be a DQ. But it was pointed out :

Penalties

6.6.4 A

Definition: An unintentional shot that travels over a backstop, a berm or impacts anything deemed by the event organizers to be unsafe.

 

That's where it starts to get muddy. Some people claimed it hit the berm so it was still safe. I'm not sure why the definition was worded the way it was.

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two different animals.  there is specific a.d. during reload, irrespective of where the round goes.  zero mud from my perspective.

 

was he reloading, did he let a round go while doing so, then 2.2.3 applies for a dq.

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10 hours ago, blacklab said:

I thought it was clear too that it would be a DQ. But it was pointed out :

Penalties

6.6.4 A

Definition: An unintentional shot that travels over a backstop, a berm or impacts anything deemed by the event organizers to be unsafe.

 

That's where it starts to get muddy. Some people claimed it hit the berm so it was still safe. I'm not sure why the definition was worded the way it was.

Loading your shotgun is not an unintentional shot regardless of where it hits.

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What muddies the water is when the shot occurred.  Did the shotgun fire while he was actually inserting rounds into the gun, or did it fire while he was returning it to his shoulder?  If it was while he was inserting rounds,  DQ.  If it fired while he was returning it to his shoulder, then where the shot landed determines whether it was a DQ.

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Act of reloading is not over until it returns to shoulder. Dq still part of reloading. 

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1 hour ago, mike4045 said:

Act of reloading is not over until it returns to shoulder. Dq still part of reloading. 

Can you cite a rule that says the stock must be on shoulder to fire? 

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23 hours ago, Ming the Merciless said:

What muddies the water is when the shot occurred.  Did the shotgun fire while he was actually inserting rounds into the gun, or did it fire while he was returning it to his shoulder?  If it was while he was inserting rounds,  DQ.  If it fired while he was returning it to his shoulder, then where the shot landed determines whether it was a DQ.

He was still reloading. If I seen it right he had just slid a shell out of the match saver when it went off. The stock was around waste level. I thought it should have been a DQ but they decided since it hit the berm he was still good to go. The only thing that saved his day was the definition in 6.6.4 A. 

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Hitting the berm seems to be lucky but I can see where 6.6.4 A confuses things and may give room for interpretation. There was no accidental discharge. This is a negligent discharge. 

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7 hours ago, Moloch38 said:

Hitting the berm seems to be lucky but I can see where 6.6.4 A confuses things and may give room for interpretation. There was no accidental discharge. This is a negligent discharge. 

I'm still confused. What's the difference between a AD and an ND?

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21 minutes ago, blacklab said:

I'm still confused. What's the difference between a AD and an ND?

AD = accidental discharge

ND = negligent discharge

 

Many people prefer the term ND because it puts the burden on the shooter for screwing up rather than calling it an “accident”. 

 

I agree, except that some rulebooks (USPSA for example) refer to it as an “accidental discharge”, so I use the term from the rules when applicable. 

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One of the biggest problems with 3 gun. The lack of rules or not enforcing  the ones they do have.

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On 6/11/2018 at 9:21 PM, blacklab said:

I'm still confused. What's the difference between a AD and an ND?

 

I was always taught, and use the following to differentiate the two:

 

AD is when a mechanical issue with the firearm causes an unintentional shot (ie, not the shooter's fault)

 

ND is when the shooter fires an unintentional shot (shooter's fault)

 

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