Super soft 9mm loadings

[ArrDave]

I'm trying to get my wife into a larger caliber than 22. I'm trying to make a load that will just barely cycle my action and be "accurate enough" for her to plink with at 5 yards.

I've got a CZ SP01 shadow with an 11# RS

Powders on hand - 700x, 231, Titegroup, WSF

Thought - I have a Lee Auto Drum so I can meter small charges of 700x, so I'm thinking like 3.2 (tenth below published) grains of 700x behind a 115 grain projectile pushing MAYBE 875 FPS.

Am I off base here? Is there anything you can think of being softer?

[IDescribe]

You are on the right track. If there is no power factor floor, then lighter bullets are the path to softest recoil. I can't speak to the powder charge as I have never loaded 700X. I would not do this with Titegroup. Titegroup is super filthy at the bottom of the load window.

[echotango]

My wife shoots a 135gr with 2.8gr of titegroup. 124pf

[Hupperware]

165gn Xtreme over 2.8gn of Titegroup set at 1.155 sounds like a suppressor ...

[dave33]

165gn Xtreme over 2.8gn of Titegroup set at 1.155 sounds like a suppressor ...

^^^^^This is true and very very soft shooting as well. At 5 yds everything should be accurate enough.

[B_RAD]

165gn Xtreme over 2.8gn of Titegroup set at 1.155 sounds like a suppressor ...

You know the velocity on this load?

[superdude]

For a soft-feeling recoil impulse, think heavy bullet and light charge of a fast powder.

[Hupperware]

165gn Xtreme over 2.8gn of Titegroup set at 1.155 sounds like a suppressor ...

You know the velocity on this load?

~770

[IDescribe]

ArrDave,

You can only get answers from people for what they know. and you're getting answers from people who load to a minimum power factor floor for USPSA/IPSC/IDPA. That is why you're getting recommendations for heavy bullets. People in reloading forums are often taught that heavier bullets recoil less. The complete truth is that heavier bullets recoil less at the same power factor. Once you start comparing bullets of different weights at different power factors, that isn't always true. And once 115gr bullets' power factor is not that far below their 147/165 grain counterparts, the lighter bullet will start having the softer recoil.

Also, YOU are NOT talking about your wife shooting with a power factor floor where you are trying to get softest recoil at minimum power factor. You're talking about getting the recoil as light as you can get with the pistol still functioning properly, regardless of bullet weight. With a semi-automatic pistol, whether or the not the pistol is going to cycle properly is dependent on whether or not the cartridge will produce the necessary slide velocity. And given the same powder, the softest recoiling loads that will produce the necessary slide velocity to run the gun at 100% are accomplished with the lightest bullets.

In Steel Challenge, where there is no power factor floor, you will sometimes find people really trying to game it with 90/95/100 grain bullets and light recoil springs. And if you REALLY want to go as soft as possible for your wife, you could go that route, as well. I'm pretty sure there's a 90 grain XTP if you want to spend the money. And I know Ibejiheads.com has 95 and 100gr coated lead.

Edited July 7, 2016 by IDescribe

[ArrDave]

ArrDave,

You can only get answers from people for what they know. and you're getting answers from people who load to a minimum power factor floor for USPSA/IPSC/IDPA. That is why you're getting recommendations for heavy bullets. People in reloading forums are often taught that heavier bullets recoil less. The complete truth is that heavier bullets recoil less at the same power factor. Once you start comparing bullets of different weights at different power factors, that is only a trend. And you once 115gr bullets' power factor is not that far below their 147/165 grain counterparts, the lighter bullet will start having the softer recoil.

And YOU are NOT talking about your wife shooting with a power factor floor where you are trying to get softest recoil at minimum power factor. You're talking about getting the recoil as light as you can get with the pistol still functioning properly, regardless of bullet weight. With a semi-automatic pistol, whether or the not the pistol is going to cycle properly is dependent on whether or not the cartridge will produce the necessary slide velocity. And given the same powder, the softest recoiling loads that will produce the necessary slide velocity to run the gun at 100% are accomplished with the lightest bullets.

In Steel Challenge, where there is no power factor floor, you will sometimes find people really trying to game it with 90/95/100 grain bullets and light recoil springs. And if you REALLY want to go as soft as possible for your wife, you could go that route, as well. I'm pretty sure there's a 90 grain XTP if you want to spend the money. And I know Ibejiheads.com has 95 and 100gr coated lead.

I thought about going the 90 grain 380 projectile route... my thought process was that the 45 bullseye guys all took the same charge for their 230 ball ammo and use a 200 grain or 185 grain LSWC and talk about how light they are. I think I'm on to something with lead 115's and a fast powder, now it's just a matter of figuring out how low I can go on charge weight and have the gun cycle. I need to order some lighter recoil springs from CGW.

I was using the recoil calculator on handloads.com to at least understand the mathematical recoil of each load being offered. So far, the 115 load with minimum 700x charge is the lowest by a good bit, according to that site. I compared my 147 gamer load to my 124 gamer load and out of the shadow, they're nearly identical numerically, which echoes my experience with them as well.

[kneelingatlas]

Any of those four under a 95/100 grain pill are good candidates, just pick one and load 10 each at 2.6, 2.8, 3.0, and 3.2gr, drop the recoil spring to 8#, shoot and see what happens.

[troupe]

Back in the day when I was heavy into open class, I had a dear friend that is gone now, I loaded some 90 gr. in my super. They were running around 1940 to 1960 for fun. Power factor was 175 back then. They were very hard on steel and the local matches did not want them shot. They left dimples on the back side of the steel (cheap steel). I handed the pistol to my friend and I told him that I had a new comp design and he had to try it. The gun was the flattest thing I ever shot. I did not tell him that the bullets were only 90 gr. Everyone at the time was running 115's. We had a target set up at 50 yds, back when we had 50 yrd standards and par times. Tom ripped off 6 rnds and he thought the comp was the ticket, he had to have my new design. I had to tell good old Tom that the bullets were the trick and not the comp. That was the good old days.

Bottom line is the lighter the bullet, the softer the impulse. I think Remington still has some 88gr bullets for the 380. By the way, the 90's at 1900 was very accurate at 50 yds. Get the spring dialed in and you will have a great shooting pistol for your wife. My baby girl has just started shooting and I think I will pick up some light bullets.

[rocket99]

my 11y/o daughter has used 3.1gr of TG pushing a 147 BBI out of my Glock 17 with no issues

[jrswanson1]

I use 2.4gr of Titegroup behind a 147gr lead flat point bullet for Steel Challenge in my SP-01. The only load I use that's softer is some Trail Boss behind a 95gr LSWC in my 32-20 cowboy revolvers.

[troupe]

jrswanson1, if you don't mind, pm me on the Trail Boss. Don't know anything about Trail Boss, if it would work in 9mm.

[open17]

Never tried loading low in my CZ's, but you can get some crazy soft recoiling loads with a 1911. I ran some 230's once with < 2 gr of N310. IIRC it was a 6 or

maybe 8 lb recoil spring. I swear the recoil was less than my 22-45 Ruger. Darned thing cycled fine.

[Wheeljack]

For a soft-feeling recoil impulse, think heavy bullet and light charge of a fast powder.

So true. The lighter bullets result in a snap recoil when fired. The heavy bullets a slower recoil. The energy is the same, but it feels more comfortable with the heavier bullet.

[CZ85Combat]

Only when you are trying to meet a PF. If all you are looking for is lightest shooting round you can get, you use as fast powder as you can and the lightest bullet that your gun will run with. some where around 105-110 PF.

Edited July 7, 2016 by CZ85Combat

[Dannybot]

You are on the right track. If there is no power factor floor, then lighter bullets are the path to softest recoil. I can't speak to the powder charge as I have never loaded 700X. I would not do this with Titegroup. Titegroup is super filthy at the bottom of the load window.

What powders are cleaner than Titegroup? That's all I've tried so far, but I do find it dirty, especially suppressed.

[arkadi]

VV N320 is very clean.

[Jim Watson]

You have the right idea, reduce the load and find the lightest that will cycle the gun.

Unfortunately, we can't tell you what that load is for YOUR gun.

I went through the process once for a beginner and 12% below maximum was the least the gun in question would run on.

[RickT]

VV N320 is very clean.

I run 3.6gr of N320 behind 115gr coated in my wife's 9mm 1911 with 8 lb. recoil spring and 19 lb. hammer spring (Steel Challenge). Shoots very, very soft. I load 3.8gr since a)I can hardly tell the difference a b)a bit cleaner. N320 is an "expensive" powder, but the cost of powder is a small percentage of total reloaded cartridge cost.

[Service Desk]

I shoot 2.8 grains of VV310 under a 115 gr coated lead semi-wadcutter in my Targetmaster. I use a 7lb recoil spring with a 17lb mainspring. The gun recoils like a .22 and shoots into an inch at 25 yards. I find 320 a bit too temperature sensitive, but the accuracy is great.

[narcosis2001]

Ive been shooting 147s from my 1911 and sti edge but hear that the 135 would be better. Never loaded any but just ordered 250 of the bayou 135s to try. Any info or thoughts on the 135 vs 147.. Seems most people use 124 or 147 but I'd think 135 would be a nice in between..??

[kneelingatlas]

Ive been shooting 147s from my 1911 and sti edge but hear that the 135 would be better. Never loaded any but just ordered 250 of the bayou 135s to try. Any info or thoughts on the 135 vs 147.. Seems most people use 124 or 147 but I'd think 135 would be a nice in between..??

I like 135s over Clays, but it might be because Clays doesn't behave well under 147s at short OALs.