Rudukai13 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Title pretty much says it all. Thinking about future plans to build a relatively inexpensive and uncomplicated Open gun in USPSA that pulls double-duty as a steel shooter. I don't and won't be able to set up for reloading any time soon, so the ability to run factory ammo brought whatever I build will be of upmost importance. Most likely, even more than competing, it will live most of its life as a fun range toy, so I want to make sure it stays reliable, non-finicky, and doesn't take up a significant portion of my time at the range trying to figure out why it's malfunctioning. That being said, I'm looking for inspiration as to what direction to go. I've given thought to the M&P9L Ported PC, Springfield XDm 5.25 in 9mm, or if I have the right amount when I'm ready to make the final decision, perhaps a used 9mm Limited 2011. I was hoping others who have guns specifically built to run Minor PF (for whatever reason you may have) might be willing to share some details on their rigs and setups. Pictures and some basic specs would be much appreciated, as well as any thoughts or suggestions anyone has regarding my plans specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 If you're shooting factory ammo don't bother with a ported barrel (you will most likely chrono sub minor) or a comp. Just put a dot and magwell on the pistol of your choice, get a big stick and have a good time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) I'm in the same boat as you. I don't reload but like to play. I bought a Rock Island 9mm single stack. For what I have invested in it, it runs great. I bought a cheep compensated barrel off ebay and use it for steel shooting. It runs whatever I feed it, but I did have to put a #5 spring in it, and my times for steel are respectful. I am in the process of buying a Rock Island double stack for USPSA. The thing about the 1911 platform is, there is so many options to build it the way you want. Don't get me wrong, I love the STI trubor but at $2800 I can do a lot of upgrades to a cheaper 1911/2011 platform. If your looking at the plastic guns keep in mind that the options are a little more limited as to what you can do with them. The triggers are a little longer and heaver to pull then a 1911. But I do have a few plastic guns and I do like them too. A lot of it depends on what you are comfortable with. Hope that helps................... I forgot to mention, scoring is not that important to me so shooting minor p f is not a big deal. Edited July 24, 2015 by blacklab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudukai13 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hey thanks for your thoughts! I should probably give some background - My first gun (which is now my dads but I still shoot it often) was a Sig 1911, so I know the fundamental tunability of the platform. Also recently, while trying to help my mom decide on her first semi-auto, I've had the opportunity to shoot a lot of striker guns at my local range as rentals. I'm starting to get a sense of the differences between the 1911 platform and modern service pistols, and I'm comfortable with the loss of tunability for my purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach1soldier Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Im with kneeling atlas. Be careful with a comp or holes. It will be easy to get the gun to not function at all or be sub minor if shooting uspsa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) I have a CZ Shadow slide that was milled for delta point and had magna ports done - for range fun, Open Minor, and maybe 3 gun, with production PF ammo I load or factory ammo. (pic attached) Its nice to use all the same kit as an iron sight gun (holster, etc), and have Open Minor fun, very low maintenance. The barrel ports help a little, but minor PF is soft enough that they aren't really necessary, the next version I've done is w/o the ports. I think those ports only cut about 5-8 PF vs non-ported barrel, if I remember correctly. The slide ride optic is nice, but it is 'busy' between shots cycling vs frame mount optic. I've also shot my CZ Czechmate Open gun - with Minor PF at matches/practice when all I had, and it is very fun. The frame mounted c-more larger and 'less busy' between shots. The comp doesn't do anything from gas, but does act as extra weight out front. Luckily it runs great both minor/major w/o changing springs, but not a big deal to do on 2011. Also consider horizontal c-more mount so optic totally out of the way for 9 minor ... sometimes 9 minor with RTS2 upright mount I've had brass not clear/eject cleanly I think if i were to do it all over again, from your criteria, I'd get a used STI 2011 pattern open gun in 9mm - you'll be happier with the optic for any use - you won't have any problems sourcing 170mm mags for open minor use FWIW from B-class production/open shooter Edited July 24, 2015 by trgt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudukai13 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 If I get a factory ported pistol, like the M&P, and do very minimal tinkering with the springs (or possibly none at all), I shouldn't run into too much of an issue with the pistol functioning reliably, right? I figure if necessary I can get hotter +p factory ammo to make minor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 If you are sure you will not be reloading in the near future, decide what ammo you plan to use and find the gun that functions reliably with it and makes power factor. Once you get really hooked, you will want to improve. That requires lots of practice. And that requires lots of ammo. Consider buying remanufactured 9mm ammo from Freedom Munitions or Expansion Industries. Bought 1000 rds at a time, it will cost less than $10 per 50 rd box. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I have a ported M&P 9L with a 5 inch barrel. At an ammo temp of 82 degrees 147 grain Federal AE average 954 fps and 115 Blazer hit 1167 fps. Both easily make Minor. A reload with Xtreme 147 RN and 3.8 BE86 makes 875 (128 PF and bunny fart recoil.... 4.0 grains hits 900 fps). I wouldn't worry about factory 9mm ammo in a ported gun. I just wouldn't be shooting lead or coated lead bullets in it. I 'think' the porting helps reduce muzzle rise, but not to any grand degree. It won't be shooting as flat as a Major big gas comp gun will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 in same boat (don't reload). got a sti steelmaster a couple of years ago, they make it for Winchester white box 9mm. definitely a fun gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I would not dismiss a comp for minor factory loads. They will help reduce muzzle lift and recoil. If you are looking for steel gun that is ready to run with no mods, consider this one. http://www.mountaincompetitionpistols.com/M9%20IPSC%20Match%20Pistol They also make a mount for a FFIII red dot, although it is not shown on the web site. You can also mount the FF in the dovetail mount, but you will need better screws than Burris provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The Performance Center 9L I mentioned above comes with an upper slide cut out and five mounting plates. I played with a Jpoint 8 MOA and a Burris FFIII (3 MOA dot) and both took about a minute to mount with the provided plates and screws. The only negative to the gun is that it came with a 6.25 pound trigger pull. I will have to have that fixed. Been talking to Burwell, who has done great trigger jobs for me in the past, but he hasn't responded to my latest emails to facilitate getting the gun to him, and I'm reluctant to just "send the gun off to him outa the blue". I hope I can get a response from him, because other than the trigger that gun is Damned Spiffy.... 1.6 inch groups the 25 yards with my 147 loads! That gun, with a trigger job is going to be pretty awesome in Steel Challenge, and fun to play with in USPSA Open at the local club matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudukai13 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 I do know I want the optic to be frame-mounted. I've had the opportunity now to shoot pistols that have slide-mounted red dots and a rented STI with a frame-mounted C-More, and to me there's no comparison. I understand the draw of the smaller mrds on the slide of a service or carry pistol, but this gun won't be used for carry, won't be attempting to conceal it, and will likely spend most of the time in my nightstand drawer, so I'm willing to compromise slightly more bulk for the benefit of having a stationary optic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echotango Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 a sti steelmaster will run factory ammo as stated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I would not dismiss a comp for minor factory loads. They will help reduce muzzle lift and recoil. If you are looking for steel gun that is ready to run with no mods, consider this one. http://www.mountaincompetitionpistols.com/M9%20IPSC%20Match%20Pistol They also make a mount for a FFIII red dot, although it is not shown on the web site. You can also mount the FF in the dovetail mount, but you will need better screws than Burris provides. I agree, we designed a comp for our Glocks that makes very noticable difference. But don't listen to me, I may be shooting against you someday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The gun in my avatar is my STI Steelmaster setup for Steel Challenge. Also works perfect as is for open minor. The only 'nice to have' would be a slide racker, otherwise it's good to go ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echotango Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Nimitz, How light of a load have you been able to run in your steelmaster? I have a 7# spring & aluminum guide rod running 120pf rounds. Hasn't been all that reliable below that but have not tried a 6# spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Carry Optics now. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Nimitz, How light of a load have you been able to run in your steelmaster? I have a 7# spring & aluminum guide rod running 120pf rounds. Hasn't been all that reliable below that but have not tried a 6# spring. yep, been there, done that ..... having no experience with open centerfire when I got the gun I thought .... "steel Challenge, no PF = ultra light PF, right? Wrong. My current load running the factory springs is a 115g Extreme plated bullet under 4.4g N320, 1.15 OAL. PF around 130-135 & the guns has been running flawless since I figured this out. I also developed a load for WST, my normal powder once my stash of N320 runs out ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Carry Optics now. Lol I wish .... because of their current stupid weight limits I can't play with my CZ Shadow like I had planned to ..... and the real name of the division is: Plastic Carry Optics ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 This thread speaks directly to me as I was sitting around last night contemplating a budget open gun for steel. I know, budget and open gun do not go together. Here are my thoughts, let me know if it sounds reasonable. Rock Island 1911 in 9mm, one of the mid range models. Swap the barrel for one with a compensator designed for minor loads. Replace the fire controls with one of the drop in kits from a better manufacturer. Add a mount and a C-More. I am thinking the Rock Island because they are decent guns at a reasonable price and since it is only for steel, I don't need a double stack. Since it is only for steel I need good groups, but not 10 shot clover leafs at 25 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambluemax Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 relatively inexpensive and uncomplicated Open gun Let be real...there is no such thing. There are exceptions to every rule...but not many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudukai13 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 The operative term in that sentence would be "relatively" - Relative to a $3k+ semi- or full-custom 2011 platform, a <$1k service pistol plus red dot and magazine extensions is inexpensive and uncomplicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I started with a simple 9x19 used open Glock 17. Cmore red dot on a carver mount, good trigger parts, modified grip, magwell, kkm barrel, carver 3 port comp. Initially I just wanted to try shooting steel, but then used it to shoot open USPSA. Minor is a bit of a handicap, but who cares when you're just learning how to shoot open? With the loads below, it ran flawless. Had two failures to extract almost back to back and no other malfunctions before or since. It's a very fun gun. I ran 5.1 gr Longshot under a 115 HAP at 1.145". Nice and very soft. Never chrono'd. I also ran 5.8 gr 3N37 under a 115 HAP at 1.145". Snappier, but still pretty soft. Chrono'd at 1138 fps for pf of 131. Both loads are near or below the starting book loads I believe. Always a Federal SPP as other primers sometimes don't light with the soft striker spring. Use all proper loading practices. With both of these loads the effect of the compensator is very noticeable for me. Easy to back to back in a standard non-comped Glock 17. The Longshot load would function a stock 17 but not a stock 17C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 relatively inexpensive and uncomplicated Open gun Let be real...there is no such thing. There are exceptions to every rule...but not many I've got one, G17, delta point, KKM barrel, comp, runs 99.9% of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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