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Single stack rules


bceglinski

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I understand in single stack rules you're not allowed to have Magnets for mag pouches. However can one have a magnet on the belt just to hold the magazine after you Complete a stage. No magazine attached to the magnet While you're shooting the stage.

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APPENDIX D5 —Single-Stack Division - Each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means. And APPENDIX E3 - Diagram of Equipment Position would dictate where any mag pouch or magnets could be placed... However Appendix D5 is clear that magazines may not be retained through magnetic means... before, during or after the COF. So No.

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To make it clearer, E3 (which applies to both Single Stack and Production) shows that the "foremost limit for gun, holster, and all equipment behind the hip bone". Mag holders are, of course, equipment.

Also, D5 says that "each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means". It doesn't say "it's okay after UASC", it just says "may not be retained".

So again, nope.

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No. You cannot retain a magazine by magnetic means even then.

Also, D5 says that "each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means". It doesn't say "it's okay after UASC", it just says "may not be retained".

So again, nope.

This is the rule covering non-compliance with division requirements:

"6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, other-wise the competitor will shoot the match for no score."

I don't see any rule coverage for:

a: Having a magnet holder on the belt. (I think not being behind the hip could be an issue)

b: Using it to hold a mag outside of a course of fire.

I'm thinking it would be OK. Is it a good idea? Not sure.

Later,

Chuck

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No. You cannot retain a magazine by magnetic means even then.

Also, D5 says that "each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means". It doesn't say "it's okay after UASC", it just says "may not be retained".

So again, nope.

This is the rule covering non-compliance with division requirements:

"6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, other-wise the competitor will shoot the match for no score."

I don't see any rule coverage for:

a: Having a magnet holder on the belt. (I think not being behind the hip could be an issue)

b: Using it to hold a mag outside of a course of fire.

I'm thinking it would be OK. Is it a good idea? Not sure.

Later,

Chuck

Maybe so, but what would be the point of even having one? If the COF isn't complete until the "Range is Clear" call (8.3.8 specifically states "This declaration signifies the end of the Course of fire."), you'd have to dump the magazine into a pocket or actual magazine pouch to finish a stage without a bump.

If you REALLY wanted to be a stickler for the rules, having a magazine on a magnet when given the "Make Ready" command would bump you to open (8.3.1. specifically states "This command signifies the start of 'the Course of Fire.'")

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Do your pants not have pockets? Just drop the last mag in your back pocket when you are done. You are going to have to pick up at least 2-3 mags on the stage anyway, I see no reason where a magnet would be of any real help. You'd stick it on then pull it right back off a few seconds later.

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No. You cannot retain a magazine by magnetic means even then.

Also, D5 says that "each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means". It doesn't say "it's okay after UASC", it just says "may not be retained".

So again, nope.

This is the rule covering non-compliance with division requirements:

"6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, other-wise the competitor will shoot the match for no score."

I don't see any rule coverage for:

a: Having a magnet holder on the belt. (I think not being behind the hip could be an issue)

b: Using it to hold a mag outside of a course of fire.

I'm thinking it would be OK. Is it a good idea? Not sure.

Later,

Chuck

The course of fire ends with the command "Range is Clear." The "If you are finished, unload and show clear" command is part of the course of fire. Therefore, if magnetic means, then open.....

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The course of fire ends with the command "Range is Clear." The "If you are finished, unload and show clear" command is part of the course of fire. Therefore, if magnetic means, then open.....

I think the NROI can do a quick and easy ruling on this matter - Simply follow the same reasoning they did for the "magazine in a front pocket" scenario, which has since become part of Rule 5.2.4:

Should the division restrict the location of the magazines or speed loading devices, carrying them in apparel pocket(s) forward of the restriction point will be allowed providing they are not removed from the apparel pocket(s) between the “standby” command and the command “ if clear, hammer down and holster”. (e.g. – a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty).

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50mm or 2in from the belt so I don't see a drop leg in your future

5.2.4 During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor's belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them, providing that the location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1).

10. Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from inner side of belt
Handgun and Mags - 2”
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  • 3 weeks later...

So let me ask this and see if I've been violating something. I shoot SS, all my 5 mag holders are behind hipbone, vertical (although I don't know if that is a requirement either, they were free from a buddy though so I'm sticking with them :) ) but the pants I usually wear, have a small pocket on the front of the upper thigh (5.11 stryke). I put my 6th mag in that pocket. at load and make ready I take mag 5 and chamber a round, then place it back and start the match with the magazine from my front pocket.

Does that fall under 5.2.4 since it's before the buzzer and I'm not using that pocket during a match? I've used back pocket when wearing jeans, but with these pants the back pocket is flapped so even if that front pocket wasn't so perfectly placed I'd have a PITA with the back pocket.

Red

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So let me ask this and see if I've been violating something. I shoot SS, all my 5 mag holders are behind hipbone, vertical (although I don't know if that is a requirement either, they were free from a buddy though so I'm sticking with them :) ) but the pants I usually wear, have a small pocket on the front of the upper thigh (5.11 stryke). I put my 6th mag in that pocket. at load and make ready I take mag 5 and chamber a round, then place it back and start the match with the magazine from my front pocket.

Does that fall under 5.2.4 since it's before the buzzer and I'm not using that pocket during a match? I've used back pocket when wearing jeans, but with these pants the back pocket is flapped so even if that front pocket wasn't so perfectly placed I'd have a PITA with the back pocket.

It's fine as long as it's before the buzzer.

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But you aren't going to have a magnet in front. No equipment forward of the hip bones.

The rules clearly state you can't use it in Single Stack, so it's clearly not equipment. :D

More importantly.... WHY? Why does this sport have to be this way? Full of people like this? The rules say you can't use it while shooting. Fine. As long as you don't, why should anyone care? Why should it matter in the slightest if you put your LAMR mag there, or if you stick one there when you're done? As long as it's not a safety issue, it shouldn't. You know damn well the guy's not cheating by putting an empty mag on a magnet after a stage. And if he drops a mag and it get stuck there, as long as he doesn't use it again that should matter either. If he does, THEN bump him to Open. Why do so many people go out of their way to take something that's supposed to be enjoyable, supposed to be fun and work so hard at making it not. People go on about growing the sport, and not driving people away, well they can start with doing away with this kind of nonsense. Everyone's trying to play "gotcha" and "I'm smarter than you." It's sickening.

Edited by cas
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