bceglinski Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I understand in single stack rules you're not allowed to have Magnets for mag pouches. However can one have a magnet on the belt just to hold the magazine after you Complete a stage. No magazine attached to the magnet While you're shooting the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No. You cannot retain a magazine by magnetic means even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 APPENDIX D5 —Single-Stack Division - Each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means. And APPENDIX E3 - Diagram of Equipment Position would dictate where any mag pouch or magnets could be placed... However Appendix D5 is clear that magazines may not be retained through magnetic means... before, during or after the COF. So No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 To make it clearer, E3 (which applies to both Single Stack and Production) shows that the "foremost limit for gun, holster, and all equipment behind the hip bone". Mag holders are, of course, equipment. Also, D5 says that "each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means". It doesn't say "it's okay after UASC", it just says "may not be retained". So again, nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No. You cannot retain a magazine by magnetic means even then. Also, D5 says that "each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means". It doesn't say "it's okay after UASC", it just says "may not be retained". So again, nope. This is the rule covering non-compliance with division requirements: "6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, other-wise the competitor will shoot the match for no score." I don't see any rule coverage for: a: Having a magnet holder on the belt. (I think not being behind the hip could be an issue) b: Using it to hold a mag outside of a course of fire. I'm thinking it would be OK. Is it a good idea? Not sure. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No. You cannot retain a magazine by magnetic means even then. Not even by my magnetic personality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrconst Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I wear a magnet on the back to hold a paster gun. RO at Area 3 last year called me out on having a magnet. Told and showed him it was for the paster. He spoke with Rangmaster who gave me the green light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag316 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No. You cannot retain a magazine by magnetic means even then. Also, D5 says that "each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means". It doesn't say "it's okay after UASC", it just says "may not be retained". So again, nope. This is the rule covering non-compliance with division requirements: "6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, other-wise the competitor will shoot the match for no score." I don't see any rule coverage for: a: Having a magnet holder on the belt. (I think not being behind the hip could be an issue) b: Using it to hold a mag outside of a course of fire. I'm thinking it would be OK. Is it a good idea? Not sure. Later, Chuck Maybe so, but what would be the point of even having one? If the COF isn't complete until the "Range is Clear" call (8.3.8 specifically states "This declaration signifies the end of the Course of fire."), you'd have to dump the magazine into a pocket or actual magazine pouch to finish a stage without a bump. If you REALLY wanted to be a stickler for the rules, having a magazine on a magnet when given the "Make Ready" command would bump you to open (8.3.1. specifically states "This command signifies the start of 'the Course of Fire.'") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Do your pants not have pockets? Just drop the last mag in your back pocket when you are done. You are going to have to pick up at least 2-3 mags on the stage anyway, I see no reason where a magnet would be of any real help. You'd stick it on then pull it right back off a few seconds later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No. You cannot retain a magazine by magnetic means even then. Also, D5 says that "each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means". It doesn't say "it's okay after UASC", it just says "may not be retained". So again, nope. This is the rule covering non-compliance with division requirements: "6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, other-wise the competitor will shoot the match for no score." I don't see any rule coverage for: a: Having a magnet holder on the belt. (I think not being behind the hip could be an issue) b: Using it to hold a mag outside of a course of fire. I'm thinking it would be OK. Is it a good idea? Not sure. Later, Chuck The course of fire ends with the command "Range is Clear." The "If you are finished, unload and show clear" command is part of the course of fire. Therefore, if magnetic means, then open..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acpie360 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The course of fire ends with the command "Range is Clear." The "If you are finished, unload and show clear" command is part of the course of fire. Therefore, if magnetic means, then open..... I think the NROI can do a quick and easy ruling on this matter - Simply follow the same reasoning they did for the "magazine in a front pocket" scenario, which has since become part of Rule 5.2.4: Should the division restrict the location of the magazines or speed loading devices, carrying them in apparel pocket(s) forward of the restriction point will be allowed providing they are not removed from the apparel pocket(s) between the “standby” command and the command “ if clear, hammer down and holster”. (e.g. – a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Still, if you have a magnet in front and you eject a mag during the COF that sticks to it, you're screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 But you aren't going to have a magnet in front. No equipment forward of the hip bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Or you could just shove your mag in your back pocket like the rest of us and leave the rules alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Or you could just shove your mag in your back pocket like the rest of us and leave the rules alone! Don't waist your logic, you only get so much of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 What is the "hip bone" top of pelvis, front of pelvis, femoral head??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 What is the "hip bone" top of pelvis, front of pelvis, femoral head??? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Hip_bone_anterior_high-res.jpg/250px-Hip_bone_anterior_high-res.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Yea but what part? If i go by that depiction, i could place mags on a drop leg in the front of my leg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The rule book shows a diagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 50mm or 2in from the belt so I don't see a drop leg in your future 5.2.4 During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor's belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them, providing that the location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1). 10. Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from inner side of belt Handgun and Mags - 2” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The rule book shows a diagram. http://www.uspsa.org/document_library/rules/2014/Feb%202014%20Handgun%20Rules.pdf#page=99 Based on that I have always taken it to mean that all of the gun, holster, and mag pouches must be behind the forward-most portion of the pelvis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The rule book shows a diagram. http://www.uspsa.org/document_library/rules/2014/Feb%202014%20Handgun%20Rules.pdf#page=99Based on that I have always taken it to mean that all of the gun, holster, and mag pouches must be behind the forward-most portion of the pelvis. "This" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DagoRed Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 So let me ask this and see if I've been violating something. I shoot SS, all my 5 mag holders are behind hipbone, vertical (although I don't know if that is a requirement either, they were free from a buddy though so I'm sticking with them ) but the pants I usually wear, have a small pocket on the front of the upper thigh (5.11 stryke). I put my 6th mag in that pocket. at load and make ready I take mag 5 and chamber a round, then place it back and start the match with the magazine from my front pocket. Does that fall under 5.2.4 since it's before the buzzer and I'm not using that pocket during a match? I've used back pocket when wearing jeans, but with these pants the back pocket is flapped so even if that front pocket wasn't so perfectly placed I'd have a PITA with the back pocket. Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 So let me ask this and see if I've been violating something. I shoot SS, all my 5 mag holders are behind hipbone, vertical (although I don't know if that is a requirement either, they were free from a buddy though so I'm sticking with them ) but the pants I usually wear, have a small pocket on the front of the upper thigh (5.11 stryke). I put my 6th mag in that pocket. at load and make ready I take mag 5 and chamber a round, then place it back and start the match with the magazine from my front pocket. Does that fall under 5.2.4 since it's before the buzzer and I'm not using that pocket during a match? I've used back pocket when wearing jeans, but with these pants the back pocket is flapped so even if that front pocket wasn't so perfectly placed I'd have a PITA with the back pocket. It's fine as long as it's before the buzzer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) But you aren't going to have a magnet in front. No equipment forward of the hip bones. The rules clearly state you can't use it in Single Stack, so it's clearly not equipment. More importantly.... WHY? Why does this sport have to be this way? Full of people like this? The rules say you can't use it while shooting. Fine. As long as you don't, why should anyone care? Why should it matter in the slightest if you put your LAMR mag there, or if you stick one there when you're done? As long as it's not a safety issue, it shouldn't. You know damn well the guy's not cheating by putting an empty mag on a magnet after a stage. And if he drops a mag and it get stuck there, as long as he doesn't use it again that should matter either. If he does, THEN bump him to Open. Why do so many people go out of their way to take something that's supposed to be enjoyable, supposed to be fun and work so hard at making it not. People go on about growing the sport, and not driving people away, well they can start with doing away with this kind of nonsense. Everyone's trying to play "gotcha" and "I'm smarter than you." It's sickening. Edited February 26, 2015 by cas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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