MarkCO Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't think it was an attack on you Kevin. But I know for a fact that my shooting has improved over the last 2 years (with less than 20 total hours of practice/training) due to shooting on squads with top level competitors. I think I have been squadded with Jerry 3 or 4 times. He talks to himself during walkthroughs, if you listen, you learn. Even some of the top shooters I would rather not have a beer with, I have learned from being squadded with. There is a lot to learn in these shooting sports that has no "perfect" score. Some is practice, some dry-fire, some being pushed and some witnessing a higher level shooter have a great run on a course you also shot and being able to non-emotionally evaluate the whys and hows that separate you from the best. It helps to close the gap. Sorry to the OP for the drift, but I assume this is part of parcel of why you want to know where the "mecca" is located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 How hot does it get in Phoenix? It gets hot in Frostproof also but i it is bearable even in July and August.. Looks like the ranges in the Phoenix area are all sand and no trees , grass etc . Florida ranges are grass with trees around for shade. This helps when it is hot they don't radiate heat like sand does. They are both at extreme ends of the U.S. when looking at it from Northern locations regarding travel. Airline service extremely good for Frostproof due to Disney World being very close. ( fly in to Orlando numerous flights from most major airports). Frank has a Huey also so that is a wash. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head to consider when comparing ranges. I live in Florida so I obviously would vote for Frostproof.. There are plenty of other ranges that should also be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericjhuber Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I just moved to Phoenix; coming from NJ it certainly feels like a shooting mecca! I moved to the Tampa area from NJ also so I know exactly how you feel. I've heard Florida called the "Gunshine" state before. I wish I would have learned about practical shooting when I was living in Phoenix. I'd give a vote to central Florida for one of the top spots on the list. It doesn't sound like it would be the top on the list (feels like AZ has that one wrapped up), but we have an amazing amount of local clubs here in Central Florida and the rest of the state so finding matches isn't an issue. Throw in the major matches at Universal and you're in good shape for all of your competitive shooting needs. We also have plenty of high level shooters to learn from including formal training (Rent-A-Smitty, for example) at USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkha Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't think it was an attack on you Kevin. But I know for a fact that my shooting has improved over the last 2 years (with less than 20 total hours of practice/training) due to shooting on squads with top level competitors. I think I have been squadded with Jerry 3 or 4 times. He talks to himself during walkthroughs, if you listen, you learn. Even some of the top shooters I would rather not have a beer with, I have learned from being squadded with. There is a lot to learn in these shooting sports that has no "perfect" score. Some is practice, some dry-fire, some being pushed and some witnessing a higher level shooter have a great run on a course you also shot and being able to non-emotionally evaluate the whys and hows that separate you from the best. It helps to close the gap. Sorry to the OP for the drift, but I assume this is part of parcel of why you want to know where the "mecca" is located. I appreciate your apology for the shift but don't be, it is all very interesting to me, and yes this definitely relates to why I am interested in where the "mecca" is located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I could practice every day for 5 years and still not beat anybody on the super squad. I know lots of people who would be on the super squad if they did this, probably the majority of forum members could too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I could practice every day for 5 years and still not beat anybody on the super squad. I know lots of people who would be on the super squad if they did this, probably the majority of forum members could too. Are they 55 years old? Do they have sciatica? Do they have poor vision? Do they have arthritis in their shoulders, and hands? Do they have to work to make a living? Probably many but not most could do it. I certainly couldn't. My "mecca" is right here where I am with a match every weekend. Still shooting with GM's but they are the vast majority whereas Rio sounds like it might be the other way around? Certainly sense can be made out of what I am saying without being told I'm a slacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hello: It may not be a Mecca but Georgia has lots of great places to shoot. There are some very good shooters here and the weather is pretty nice all year long. We get between 60 -120 shooters at the matches with some GM's and lots of really good shooters. The matches are very well run and different from each other depending on the club you are shooting at. I think you will see more future GM's coming out of Georgia. Not me but some others that are younger. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I've talked to people who used to live here in Az and shot at Rio regularly. They had to move for various reasons but when they started shooting at local clubs in their new communities they found they were at or near the top of the food chain. One guy said he was invited to a practice session at his new club and when he got there was surprised to find out they were waiting for him to set up drills and train them. He was, like me, used to getting whipped up on pretty badly, and had no idea of the knowledge he had absorbed here. I like it here. Just have to remember it's like being the dumb kid in the smart row and not a bad place to be. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpaz Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I've talked to people who used to live here in Az and shot at Rio regularly. They had to move for various reasons but when they started shooting at local clubs in their new communities they found they were at or near the top of the food chain. One guy said he was invited to a practice session at his new club and when he got there was surprised to find out they were waiting for him to set up drills and train them. He was, like me, used to getting whipped up on pretty badly, and had no idea of the knowledge he had absorbed here. I like it here. Just have to remember it's like being the dumb kid in the smart row and not a bad place to be. LOL And we're having fun while we're getting whipped up on! One important aspect of shooting here is that people (including us mid pack shooters) make things happen. Between Rio Salado and Phx Rod & Gun Club we have special revolver matches, afternoon rifle matches where you run the USPSA stages from the morning, shotgun and pistol caliber carbine matches, unofficial big bore ICORE matches, and more. These all came about because when people here want something, instead of asking for "somebody" to implement it, they ask if they can make it happen. And if there is room in the schedule the answer is usually yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmt Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Just go to the Rio Salado website & look at the calendar for any month. http://rsscaz.com/calendar/month.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 What is your definition of "Mecca"? A single range that is awesome or a location that has lots to offer overall? If it is a single facility, the considerations would be number and quality of firing points, club house, amenities, availability of practice ranges, location, etc. For a location, it would be number of matches available per month, availability of year round matches, availability of practice ranges, weather, local talent, big matches in the area and general community quality. The first has been discussed briefly in a thread about the best range. Not a lot of responses. The second has been covered by many threads about the best place to live for practical shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickpony Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I think what Mike Cyrwus is saying makes a ton of sense. I lived in the Midwest for a while and it was always fun heading to OKC or Tulsa to shoot a couple times a Month. Then you can shoot at Mill Creek outside of KC and Air Capital in Topeka, KS, Hallsville in Missouri and if you wanna go to Omaha you can do that too. Lots of shooting within a 3 hour drive every weekend if you enjoy driving. It's nice to see new shooters from multiple clubs in a variety of areas vs. Rio Salado area where the same shooters are there winning over and over at every match. Fun every now and then but not all the time. Maybe not but that's why I'm in no hurry to move to Phoenix area. Cool topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I think what Mike Cyrwus is saying makes a ton of sense. I lived in the Midwest for a while and it was always fun heading to OKC or Tulsa to shoot a couple times a Month. Then you can shoot at Mill Creek outside of KC and Air Capital in Topeka, KS, Hallsville in Missouri and if you wanna go to Omaha you can do that too. Lots of shooting within a 3 hour drive every weekend if you enjoy driving. It's nice to see new shooters from multiple clubs in a variety of areas vs. Rio Salado area where the same shooters are there winning over and over at every match. Fun every now and then but not all the time. Maybe not but that's why I'm in no hurry to move to Phoenix area. Cool topic One thing I noticed right off at Rio was the diversity of the shooters many have English as their second language. I get to meet people from all over who come here to shoot and improve their game. You'll meet PMC's and people from different organizations who are here to learn to shoot better. It's a very interesting mix. It's like going to Harvard to college as opposed to the local community college. Edited January 19, 2015 by mgardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericjhuber Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You guys are killing me with this Rio stuff. I lived in the East Valley for around five years before finally having to move for work. If I only knew... That said, Central Florida has been very good for me as a shooter. I get my arse handed to me regularly at my local club (Wyoming Antelope Club) and it's infested with GM and M level shooters as well as a pack of people on their way to M. I agree that getting pounded on by better shooters makes you better so if you can find a club with a lot of talent and just holster your ego, you can learn very quickly. My shooting progression has been very slow because I've been doing an MBA program on top of work (and that includes not shooting for the last six months of 2014), but even with that I've been surprised how fast I've learned because of the influence of the people I shoot with. I shoot poorly this past weekend at the Florida State match (good stage planning and execution, wretched accuracy....7 Mikes and an immense amount of deltas), but even though failed in my primary goal (being above the mean in my class), I still ended up 14th out of 23 Production C shooters. The USA (Florida Open, etc) matches are a joy because you get quite a few international shooters showing up. My advice for USA matches? The guy or gal you might never have heard of who is unclassified? Watch out for them. They're going to pummel you into the ground. They're IPSC Jedis and they don't need no stinking USPSA classification. It's also interesting to see which regions of the world really dig competitive action shooting. I try and talk to people to figure out where they are because I'm curious about how action pistol is different in other places. What sort of divisions are popular? What sort of guns are big in different places, etc. I've noticed a bunch of really talented shooters from the Philippines and Jamaica at the big USA matches, for example. I really dig the Jamaican shooter's shirts, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Moscow might have a nice range, but you couldn't call it a mecca, because traveling there (which is what people do with various meccas) with a gun would be a serious legal and logistical hassle, involving much planning, forms, approvals and bureaucracy. AZ would be the opposite experience. Cross the border, and you're freer than the state from which you just came (depending on the exact state, but even TX doesn't have open carry, yet). Plus AZ has more matches more of the time, and a bigger population of quality shooters & smiths than most places. Is AZ better in every regard than every other place? Of course not. But in the overall scheme of practical shooting, I'd guess it'd place pretty high. Texas doesn't border Arizona. I vote for Phoenix. NM is great but it's also poor and has a low population. Plenty of places to shoot but not as many matches as AZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Are they 55 years old? Do they have sciatica? Do they have poor vision? Do they have arthritis in their shoulders, and hands? Do they have to work to make a living? Probably many but not most could do it. I certainly couldn't. My "mecca" is right here where I am with a match every weekend. Still shooting with GM's but they are the vast majority whereas Rio sounds like it might be the other way around? Certainly sense can be made out of what I am saying without being told I'm a slacker. Don't be so sensitive. No one said you were a slacker. You're either shooting to get better, or you're shooting because you enjoy shooting and the camaraderie (or both). IMHO, either goal should not be affected by someone else really good shooting on the same day and in the same place as you. I go out of my way to squad with better shooters so I can learn from them, because learning and improving is what makes shooting fun for me. (fwiw, i'm 53, have back problems and worsening vision and arthritis in one knee and a job). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Sarge, have you ever seen Matt Hopkins shoot? I assure you his challenges are far greater than yours. I watched him smoke people younger than him that were less than half his size. This sport is athletic, but it's more about skill than athleticism, and if you don't believe that, holding the timer for Hopkins will make you a beilever. Also, there is zero doubt in my mind that if all you did is dryfire, practice, and shoot matches, that you could be a very strong competitior at the highest levels of our sport even at your age, and especially against seniors. I understand what you're saying, as I have struggled for the last 11 years to get to B class, but I have also had a friend go from C class to Master in a year and another go from a weak D to B in about 2 years. You just have to decide whether it's important to you and practice. If I could compete at the level I am currently classified and enjoy myself, that'd be good enough for me, but for me, B class is still a challenge. Your goals might be different. But don't convince yourself that you can't be competitive at your age. You're in decent shape, perhaps better shape than me and I'm over 20 years younger than you. Don't get discouraged and put your mind to it. Practical shooting is a bunch of simple tasks that you simply have to train your brain and eyes to do as quickly as possible. That is a skill that basically all of us have the capability to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 How hot does it get in Phoenix? It gets hot in Frostproof also but i it is bearable even in July and August.. Looks like the ranges in the Phoenix area are all sand and no trees , grass etc . Florida ranges are grass with trees around for shade. This helps when it is hot they don't radiate heat like sand does. They are both at extreme ends of the U.S. when looking at it from Northern locations regarding travel. Airline service extremely good for Frostproof due to Disney World being very close. ( fly in to Orlando numerous flights from most major airports). Frank has a Huey also so that is a wash. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head to consider when comparing ranges. I live in Florida so I obviously would vote for Frostproof.. There are plenty of other ranges that should also be considered. You forget humidity. Most of the west doesn't have any. It's a dry heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Don't let them fool you. The heat is bad, even w/o humidity. I have had to work outside a few times in Phoenix with the T in the 110F plus range...not fun. I would honestly rather spend a day in OF than 100F. If you like heat, fine, but I do not. There are some matches I will not shoot specifically because it is just too dang hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Even some of the top shooters I would rather not have a beer with, I have learned from being squadded with. Is that why you won't have a beer with me? Oh wait, you said top shooters. One thing I do like about Arizona is the consistency it's had over the years. When I started shooting USPSA I had a match or two I could shoot every weekend. They were quality matches. When I moved to the Willamette Valley in Oregon I could shoot as much as I wanted and never have to drive more than an 1 1/2 hours to get to the match. Most were half an hour away. Over the years the quality of the matches has gone up and down depending on who is running the program. The smaller the area and the less involved shooters the quality can go down more easily. If you have a group of 3 people putting on all the matches, sooner or later they will burn out or you're going to end up with people who just put on whatever they want because there are no options. If there are dozens, you can pick the best people to work them and build them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Even some of the top shooters I would rather not have a beer with, I have learned from being squadded with. Is that why you won't have a beer with me? Oh wait, you said top shooters. I'd have a beer with, or shoot with you anytime Chuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyreb Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Never been to AZ, but Houston would be tough to beat. I could easily shoot 12 local matches (3G, USPSA, IDPA,Steel Challenge) a month if staying married was not a consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Never been to AZ, but Houston would be tough to beat. I could easily shoot 12 local matches (3G, USPSA, IDPA,Steel Challenge) a month if staying married was not a consideration. When you retire or semi-retire staying married requires you don't spend too much time around the house. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 You forget humidity. Most of the west doesn't have any. It's a dry heat. Well, dry or not it's still 112-120 degrees in the summer, and that's in the shade. Fortunately there's cover at most of the ranges, except of course when you're shooting a stage. Drink lots, stay hydrated! And in August comes the Monsoon season. The humidity goes from a summery 20% to around 70% or so, and it's massively miserable for the humidity-impaired (self included). One step outside and you're soggy all day. Fortunately it starts to get cooler, and by October it's pretty nice. Winter is very nice, which is why all the Snowbirds make their way back to the Valley of the Sun, get out their cars, and clog up the roads and restaurants. We love 'em, though, they're part of the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericjhuber Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah, I don't care what they say about a "dry heat", 120 degrees feels exactly like 120 degrees in the Sonoran desert. Wind doesn't do you any good either. If you actually do get some wind, now it feels like someone put a hair dryer on you...while it's 120 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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