pcs352 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I was watching the 3 gun nation dealio on the television last night and it appeared several of the shooters were using carbine length barrels in their rifles....definitely appeared to be different than the 18" or longer I'm accustomed to seeing.....am I seeing things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) The club matches I attend usually run around 50-60 shooters, always pretty evenly split between 16" and 18", never longer and always one random guy with a 14.5" somewhere. Mind you I live in a no class 3 state so SBR's are out and I have yet to drive far enough to attend a match with shots past 150yds so even the irons guys don't feel the need for a long barrel. Edited October 30, 2014 by TonytheTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtielke Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The 3 Gun Nation Pro series doesn't have any targets past 50 yards so a lot of the guys have switched to shorter rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 If it was the 3 Gun Nation Shoot Off, the "rifle" targets were at 50 yards. That's pretty much pistol distance, or was in the old days. :roflol:Have some targets out past 300 yards, and longer (18" to 20") barrels are the norm of people shooting more than most local matches. Currently, I have 2 barrels in reserve, an 18" Nordic and a 20" Black Hole Weaponry 9 inch twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs352 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 That makes sense! You sobs are smart. Probably one of the many reasons (distance) they're so darn fast. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rboyes Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) If you look at ballistics numbers you will find diminishing returns for an increase on barrel length. At some point (opinion based) the extra velocity is no longer worth the extra weight or maneuverability. Going from a 16" to an 18" or an 18" to a 20" won't make a huge difference in terms of windage. Depends on how far you expect to shoot of course. For what it's worth when I bought my JP 308 for heavy metal earlier this year I went with a 16" barrel. I found, according to quickload, about 80 fps difference from 16" to 18", which was very little additional windage . Edited October 30, 2014 by rboyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 There is an advantage to 18" barrels even on close hoser stages that a lot of guys believe is worth the weight/length tradeoff. The ability to reliably run a rifle length gas system. Even with an adjustable GB a 16" mid length gun will still have a higher port pressure and is not able to be tuned for recoil reduction to the extent that a gas length system can. Guys like MarkCo know way more about these things than I do though, maybe they'll chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I personally found the weight trade off of a 16" to be worth far more than anything accuracy wise I was getting out of an 18" even out to 300 yards (farthest my home club goes). A couple years ago I did try running my 11.5 SBR....won't do that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I have 18" on most guns. I do keep a 16" gun for shorter range matches. Most of our matches there are targets to 500+. It is fun to shoot a hoser match once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I shot my ultra-lite barreled 16.5" rifle gas barrel at Fallen Brethren (lots of long range out to 540yds) and all year long at matches pushing 400 and beyond. I didn't lose anything over shooting my 18" rifle gas gun the year before. Strangely enough, my velocity loss from my 18" to 16" barrel with 69gr handloads (same load/bullet/brass) was under 20fps, and I've heard of 16" barrels producing the same velocity as some 18" barrels since every single barrel is different and there is a range for each barrel length. Maybe I got lucky. I went from a heavy 18" barrel where it seemed easy to double tap in close and not have much issue with recoil moving me off target, to a 16.5" barrel that needed actual gas system and muzzle brake tuning to control the muzzle shift when I shot offhand. That was the only drawback I found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I have a JP 18 and 16 inch barrels. I use the 16 on our short course day and the 18 on the longer range. I have not tried the 16 on the longer ranges because it only has a 1-4x scope on it. The 16in barrel is awesome on <100 yds courses. Taran has been known to get great accuracy out of his really short ARs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Mine is. Going from a 20" HBAR to a 16" lightweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solidgun Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I have been considering 14.5" barrel pinned and welded. Shouldn't have any issues as long as it is a quality barrel. Want to try something new, but will probably go with JP barrel again for now. I think it will not have any issues reaching out to 3-400 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Interesting. My first three gun rifle had a 16" barrel and it worked just fine. I replaced with a better 18" model that weighted about the same. I am considering a 20" lighter weight barrel for my next rifle. So, im moving in the opposite direction. I am convinced that weight is critical as too heavy is not so good, not as sure about loss of velocity with shorter barrels. Is there anything to be said about a more efficient use of a comp with a shorter barrel as there is more gas pressure to work the comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solidgun Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I am considering a shorter barrel for obstacles. At Blue Ridge, I noticed that rifles slung would get the long barrels hit during the COF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaranTactical Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 So, we're rocking a shorter version of our rifle that measures in at 16.1 inches total. It's great for all the 3-gun nation stuff that doesn't generally have you shooting 300 yard targets. We're using a BCM 14.5 inch barrel with a welded and pinned PRI compensator. Shoots super flat and super accurate: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 So, we're rocking a shorter version of our rifle that measures in at 16.1 inches total. It's great for all the 3-gun nation stuff that doesn't generally have you shooting 300 yard targets. We're using a BCM 14.5 inch barrel with a welded and pinned PRI compensator. Shoots super flat and super accurate: Mid-length gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaranTactical Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 So, we're rocking a shorter version of our rifle that measures in at 16.1 inches total. It's great for all the 3-gun nation stuff that doesn't generally have you shooting 300 yard targets. We're using a BCM 14.5 inch barrel with a welded and pinned PRI compensator. Shoots super flat and super accurate: Mid-length gas? Yes, mid-length gas block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Is TTI using the standard BCM barrel or the hammer forged BFH? Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't know... I think that until I am in a championship match, where all of the targets are in close and there is $50k on the line and the top 5 guys are separated by 1sec... I'll stick with my 18"-20" barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter115 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I shot my 16.5 lightweight gun at every match this year except TFD. I don't know if there is a huge difference on the average stage between a 16" and an 18" barrel. If I know a match is going to have targets over 300 yards I'll bring out the 18" rife. None of our local matches go over 300 so I shot the lightweight gun all of this just year for the heck of it. I do like the short light gun on flat out hoser stages like this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Usually run a 20 inch government profile barrel with a 15 inch Midwest Keymod handguard which is a light handguard and a barrel that isn't too bad becauSe it's like .650 under the handguard and .750 in front. For stuff that is basically a pistol match with a rifle I have used my sbr with a 10.5 inch light weight barrel and a comp and like it. The gun may not shoot quite as flat as the 20 but it still stays on target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdozer Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I noticed a lot less sway when I went back to a heavier gun on offhand rifle shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Lots of variables... There are a few of the "top" 3GN pros who have done really well at the short drag race type stages, but who don't fare well at the more traditional matches with longer ranges, even if they are using longer barrels. There are several of the top guys running shorter barrels, yes, some SBRs and some with pinned comps, but they are shooting targets at least 10 MOA inside 60 yards max. 40-50 grain bullets at 2200-2400 fps with fast powders, very light carriers, almost no buffer weight, YES, that is a faster handling gun and the shorter gas system, operating at pressures close to what we see in the 18" guns keeps reliability okay. When you have half (or less) of the energy in the system and have been training to keep the shots inside of a 10-12 MOA group at top speed, it IS faster than a normal 16" or 18" rifle. But those rifles might not even last through a match like Blue Ridge, Rocky Mountain or even Superstition and would be a severe handicap on 20-30% of the targets, likely enough to produce a poor finish. Technique still beats gear, but when you have excellent technique and better gear than your competition, those few tenths are worth some significant cash, exposure and intangibles to the top tier 3GN Pros. Edited November 4, 2014 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbuster1 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 WWJD ( what would jesse do! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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