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3 Gun Rifles Getting Shorter?


pcs352

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I was watching the 3 gun nation dealio on the television last night and it appeared several of the shooters were using carbine length barrels in their rifles....definitely appeared to be different than the 18" or longer I'm accustomed to seeing.....am I seeing things?

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The club matches I attend usually run around 50-60 shooters, always pretty evenly split between 16" and 18", never longer and always one random guy with a 14.5" somewhere. Mind you I live in a no class 3 state so SBR's are out and I have yet to drive far enough to attend a match with shots past 150yds so even the irons guys don't feel the need for a long barrel.

Edited by TonytheTiger
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If it was the 3 Gun Nation Shoot Off, the "rifle" targets were at 50 yards. That's pretty much pistol distance, or was in the old days. :roflol:Have some targets out past 300 yards, and longer (18" to 20") barrels are the norm of people shooting more than most local matches.

Currently, I have 2 barrels in reserve, an 18" Nordic and a 20" Black Hole Weaponry 9 inch twist.

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If you look at ballistics numbers you will find diminishing returns for an increase on barrel length. At some point (opinion based) the extra velocity is no longer worth the extra weight or maneuverability. Going from a 16" to an 18" or an 18" to a 20" won't make a huge difference in terms of windage. Depends on how far you expect to shoot of course.

For what it's worth when I bought my JP 308 for heavy metal earlier this year I went with a 16" barrel. I found, according to quickload, about 80 fps difference from 16" to 18", which was very little additional windage .

Edited by rboyes
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There is an advantage to 18" barrels even on close hoser stages that a lot of guys believe is worth the weight/length tradeoff. The ability to reliably run a rifle length gas system. Even with an adjustable GB a 16" mid length gun will still have a higher port pressure and is not able to be tuned for recoil reduction to the extent that a gas length system can. Guys like MarkCo know way more about these things than I do though, maybe they'll chime in.

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I personally found the weight trade off of a 16" to be worth far more than anything accuracy wise I was getting out of an 18" even out to 300 yards (farthest my home club goes). A couple years ago I did try running my 11.5 SBR....won't do that again.

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I shot my ultra-lite barreled 16.5" rifle gas barrel at Fallen Brethren (lots of long range out to 540yds) and all year long at matches pushing 400 and beyond. I didn't lose anything over shooting my 18" rifle gas gun the year before. Strangely enough, my velocity loss from my 18" to 16" barrel with 69gr handloads (same load/bullet/brass) was under 20fps, and I've heard of 16" barrels producing the same velocity as some 18" barrels since every single barrel is different and there is a range for each barrel length. Maybe I got lucky. I went from a heavy 18" barrel where it seemed easy to double tap in close and not have much issue with recoil moving me off target, to a 16.5" barrel that needed actual gas system and muzzle brake tuning to control the muzzle shift when I shot offhand. That was the only drawback I found.

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I have a JP 18 and 16 inch barrels. I use the 16 on our short course day and the 18 on the longer range. I have not tried the 16 on the longer ranges because it only has a 1-4x scope on it.

The 16in barrel is awesome on <100 yds courses.

Taran has been known to get great accuracy out of his really short ARs.

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I have been considering 14.5" barrel pinned and welded. Shouldn't have any issues as long as it is a quality barrel. Want to try something new, but will probably go with JP barrel again for now. I think it will not have any issues reaching out to 3-400 yards.

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Interesting. My first three gun rifle had a 16" barrel and it worked just fine. I replaced with a better 18" model that weighted about the same. I am considering a 20" lighter weight barrel for my next rifle. So, im moving in the opposite direction. I am convinced that weight is critical as too heavy is not so good, not as sure about loss of velocity with shorter barrels. Is there anything to be said about a more efficient use of a comp with a shorter barrel as there is more gas pressure to work the comp?

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So, we're rocking a shorter version of our rifle that measures in at 16.1 inches total. It's great for all the 3-gun nation stuff that doesn't generally have you shooting 300 yard targets.

We're using a BCM 14.5 inch barrel with a welded and pinned PRI compensator. Shoots super flat and super accurate:

10397192_809371805748225_516925565510709

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So, we're rocking a shorter version of our rifle that measures in at 16.1 inches total. It's great for all the 3-gun nation stuff that doesn't generally have you shooting 300 yard targets.

We're using a BCM 14.5 inch barrel with a welded and pinned PRI compensator. Shoots super flat and super accurate:

Mid-length gas?

10397192_809371805748225_516925565510709

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So, we're rocking a shorter version of our rifle that measures in at 16.1 inches total. It's great for all the 3-gun nation stuff that doesn't generally have you shooting 300 yard targets.

We're using a BCM 14.5 inch barrel with a welded and pinned PRI compensator. Shoots super flat and super accurate:

Mid-length gas?

10397192_809371805748225_516925565510709

Yes, mid-length gas block.

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I shot my 16.5 lightweight gun at every match this year except TFD. I don't know if there is a huge difference on the average stage between a 16" and an 18" barrel. If I know a match is going to have targets over 300 yards I'll bring out the 18" rife. None of our local matches go over 300 so I shot the lightweight gun all of this just year for the heck of it. I do like the short light gun on flat out hoser stages like this though.

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Usually run a 20 inch government profile barrel with a 15 inch Midwest Keymod handguard which is a light handguard and a barrel that isn't too bad becauSe it's like .650 under the handguard and .750 in front. For stuff that is basically a pistol match with a rifle I have used my sbr with a 10.5 inch light weight barrel and a comp and like it. The gun may not shoot quite as flat as the 20 but it still stays on target

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Lots of variables...

There are a few of the "top" 3GN pros who have done really well at the short drag race type stages, but who don't fare well at the more traditional matches with longer ranges, even if they are using longer barrels. There are several of the top guys running shorter barrels, yes, some SBRs and some with pinned comps, but they are shooting targets at least 10 MOA inside 60 yards max. 40-50 grain bullets at 2200-2400 fps with fast powders, very light carriers, almost no buffer weight, YES, that is a faster handling gun and the shorter gas system, operating at pressures close to what we see in the 18" guns keeps reliability okay. When you have half (or less) of the energy in the system and have been training to keep the shots inside of a 10-12 MOA group at top speed, it IS faster than a normal 16" or 18" rifle. But those rifles might not even last through a match like Blue Ridge, Rocky Mountain or even Superstition and would be a severe handicap on 20-30% of the targets, likely enough to produce a poor finish.

Technique still beats gear, but when you have excellent technique and better gear than your competition, those few tenths are worth some significant cash, exposure and intangibles to the top tier 3GN Pros.

Edited by MarkCO
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