Sandbagger123 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 went to a match yesterday and saw a shooter get a warning about drawing his 2011 and taking the safety off before it went horizontal. threaten to D/Q him if he saw it again. So is this a valid reason for a D/Q? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I new a guy that used to swipe the safety and prep the trigger on the way out of the holster. No harm no foul. If it went bang DQ. Probably not a good idea but no rules against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 That must have been an Awfully Slow draw, for the RO to see the safety come off during the draw ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Another example of poor officiating.ugh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nghthwk1911 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 This kills me, I know that this is a Volunteer Sport (mostly) and that acting as an RO at a local match is just something we all need to help with, but come on, READ THE RULES. As a competitor you should know the rules, so that you can't be bullied by an over zealot RO. And as an RO you should know the rules so you don't say stupid shit like disabling the safety after the buzzer is a offence that might get one DQ'ed. Rule books are available on-line in PDF, or a hard copy can be ordered for $3.00, check them out you might be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 The closest thing in the rule book is under 8.5 but it really addresses that the safety "should" (not "must") be engaged while moving if not shooting while moving: 8.5 Movement8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets, all movement (see Appendix A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. The handgun must be pointed in a safe direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Actually, 10.5 does seem to leave some room under the umbrella for what (that RO, anyway) could consider unsafe gun handling: 10.5 Match Disqualification – Unsafe Gun HandlingExamples of unsafe gun handling include, but are not limited to: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 That rule could leave room for any bogus call. The hard fast rules for safety on/off should apply here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Wha? Was there more to this? I always disengage the safety after clearing the holster, but prior to horizontal..finger outside guard until on target. Should never be an issue as long as it is not disengaged prior to clearing the holster. Agreed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 As far as I'm concerned as soon as the start your draw the safety can come off. It may be dumb to do it when you are sweeping your feet, but how in the name of bacon am I suppose to call that evenly as an RO? Single sides safeties would be a bitch to call, no? If can't enforce that equally it is dumb t even try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nghthwk1911 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Mike, Really how did you get 10.5? That is the section that details unsafe gun handling, You are listed as an RO-w/Multi-Gun. Tell us how any of 10.5 would apply to this. Or is it your opinion that disabling a safety on a gun while not aiming at a target is unsafe? Sorry I am not trying to troll anyone, but the state of the RO community as a whole is really starting to frighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 went to a match yesterday and saw a shooter get a warning about drawing his 2011 and taking the safety off before it went horizontal. threaten to D/Q him if he saw it again. So is this a valid reason for a D/Q? Love to see that RO tell a pro shooter that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 LOL! I did not say I agreed with it I said that the rule about unsafe gun handling leaves room for an overzealous RO to declare things that are not specifically listed as "unsafe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nghthwk1911 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Mike, That is good, but it still is sad that some RO's would even think that is a possible action for a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 LOL! I did not say I agreed with it I said that the rule about unsafe gun handling leaves room for an overzealous RO to declare things that are not specifically listed as "unsafe". I definitely disagree since under 10.5 there is already SPF more specific rule covering this exact scenario. It only applies while the gun is actually in the holster of course. That RO has no grounds for that call. "10.5.11 Holstering a loaded handgun, in any of the following conditions: 10.5.11.1 A single action self-loading pistol with the safety not applied." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flim-Flam Man Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 This kills me, I know that this is a Volunteer Sport (mostly) and that acting as an RO at a local match is just something we all need to help with, but come on, READ THE RULES. As a competitor you should know the rules, so that you can't be bullied by an over zealot RO. And as an RO you should know the rules so you don't say stupid shit like disabling the safety after the buzzer is a offence that might get one DQ'ed. Rule books are available on-line in PDF, or a hard copy can be ordered for $3.00, check them out you might be surprised. best post of the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I believe that we are facilitators not dictators. Rule #1 always should apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Never actually saw him do it, he told me that is how he performed his draw. He also was very fast, he was a A class shooter in open division. I always thought it was an AD waiting to happen but he never had one. Best shooter reply is show me in the rule book where I can't do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 When the ignorant RO (who may just be overly well intentioned) tries to issue a DQ, just wait patiently for the RM to arrive and set things right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 That must have been an Awfully Slow draw, for the RO to see the safety come off during the draw ... +1 !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDM Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Let's say this was a DQable offense (which apparently it isn't), how many warnings do you get for committing DQable offenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 This is probably legal, under the definition of "draw" in the Glossary (Appendix A3): "The point at which a handgun is removed or disengaged from the holster so as to allow access to any portion of the interior of the trigger guard." At the point the draw has begun (per above) you're no longer under 10.5.11.1 (above), where you have to have the safety applied when the gun is holstered in a loaded condition. It can't be both at the same time. So, as soon as the draw begins, you would be able to disengage the safety - but as was pointed out above, at the risk of an AD if you do it too fast. I saw a guy with a Single Stack 1911 do just that at a Level I match, drew the gun and almost immediately fired. The bullet hit the ground only a couple of feet past his shoes. He was "DQd" but was allowed to finish the match, just not for score. Poor form, I believe. Since then I've practiced releasing the safety after the gun leaves the holster and starts to get horizontal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Let's say this was a DQable offense (which apparently it isn't), how many warnings do you get for committing DQable offenses? There aren't supposed to be warnings. However, a lot of local (Level I) clubs seem to do that for Chapter 10 offenses, for unknown reasons. Trying to be nice, I guess. It's not safe and the shooter doesn't learn much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 This is probably legal, under the definition of "draw" in the Glossary (Appendix A3): "The point at which a handgun is removed or disengaged from the holster so as to allow access to any portion of the interior of the trigger guard." At the point the draw has begun (per above) you're no longer under 10.5.11.1 (above), where you have to have the safety applied when the gun is holstered in a loaded condition. It can't be both at the same time. So, as soon as the draw begins, you would be able to disengage the safety - but as was pointed out above, at the risk of an AD if you do it too fast.I saw a guy with a Single Stack 1911 do just that at a Level I match, drew the gun and almost immediately fired. The bullet hit the ground only a couple of feet past his shoes. He was "DQd" but was allowed to finish the match, just not for score. Poor form, I believe. Since then I've practiced releasing the safety after the gun leaves the holster and starts to get horizontal. I have never heard of a DQed shooter being allowed to continue for no score. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now