tangonuke1 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Check out the IDPA Facebook post that went up around midnight. I'm about done with IDPA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZViking Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 WTF?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Good thing I chose USPSA instead of IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind bat Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Wow. The Accu-shadow is listed on CZ USA's product page. Granted it also says "by CZ Custom" but so does the product page for the SP01 Shadow Target. This ruling would imply that the Shadow is also illegal for SSP. References: http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-accu-shadow-9mm-black-3x18-rd-mags-by-cz-custom/ http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-shadow-target-9mm-black-3x18-rd-mags-by-cz-custom/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 gamer gun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Wow. The Accu-shadow is listed on CZ USA's product page. Granted it also says "by CZ Custom" but so does the product page for the SP01 Shadow Target. This ruling would imply that the Shadow is also illegal for SSP. References: http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-accu-shadow-9mm-black-3x18-rd-mags-by-cz-custom/ http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-shadow-target-9mm-black-3x18-rd-mags-by-cz-custom/ At least the Target anyway as it has had the slide milled for adjustable sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 You mean that the new rulebook hadn't already driven you away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Doesn't say anything about being OEM in the rules: 8.2.1.1.1. Have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units. Discontinued models must have had a total production of 20,000 units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 8.2.1.4.1 refers to prohibited modifications.....One would think that means "things you cannot do to the pistol after you buy it". If the pistol is sold in a certain configuration how that can be construed as a prohibited modification is beyond all logic. IDPA is truly reaching into WTF territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 "there" a long time ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johes Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'm next in line at my dealer for a shadow target. Does anyone know for sure if it's legal or illegal for SSP? I'm sure after this, Robert Ray is afraid to answer the phone so I won't even try that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarker13 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Not even sure what good it is to "know for sure" when you are talking about IDPA. It may be legal today, but could be illegal tomorrow. Or next year. I've seen a copy of an email sent from Robert Ray to a friend of mine who was considering an AccuShadow last year. Ray said that as long as it made weight, it would be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'm next in line at my dealer for a shadow target. Does anyone know for sure if it's legal or illegal for SSP? I'm sure after this, Robert Ray is afraid to answer the phone so I won't even try that. The Facebook post by IDPA quoted above says that CZ Custom is not the manufacturer, so it's as if you or a gunsmith did the work on a base SP-01 Shadow from CZ. Custom sight cuts knock the pistol out of SSP. But the SP-01 Shadow's full-length dust cover knocks it out of ESP. So seems like it's not IDPA legal. Makes sense since aftermarket sight cuts and full-length dust covers will get you killed on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 LOL!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 the accushadow is listed on cz-usa's website! how could they (idpa) be so dumb as to do this..... http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-accu-shadow-9mm-black-3x18-rd-mags-by-cz-custom/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 the accushadow is listed on cz-usa's website! how could they (idpa) be so dumb as to do this..... http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-accu-shadow-9mm-black-3x18-rd-mags-by-cz-custom/ And it has a CZ-USA SKU and is in the catalog. It is not a "Custom gun." It is a standard configuration for which there are over 2k produced. Also, if the ACCU is illegal than so is the Target since it has had milling done to fit the sights. Did no one at IDPA ask CZ USA about this before making the ruling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Perhaps it isn't about the gun but about certain people who shoot them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 By these morons' logic, the 686 SSR is illegal since this is what S&W says about it?: Completing the line between main production and the Performance Center, the Smith & Wesson Pro Series represents the next step from standard models. These firearms are offered with a variety of enhancements yet still remain true to "stock." Bringing competition specifications and features to factory models, the Pro Series offer that ready-to-go package while still maintaining production line integrity. The way I look at it, this is just a skirt around the rules and IDPA looks the other way because S&W brings $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 By these morons' logic, the 686 SSR is illegal since this is what S&W says about it?: Completing the line between main production and the Performance Center, the Smith & Wesson Pro Series represents the next step from standard models. These firearms are offered with a variety of enhancements yet still remain true to "stock." Bringing competition specifications and features to factory models, the Pro Series offer that ready-to-go package while still maintaining production line integrity.The way I look at it, this is just a skirt around the rules and IDPA looks the other way because S&W brings $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Are you insinuating there are two sets of rules? Depending on who you are Shame on you for suggesting such a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 According to the IDPA rules clarification 2014-02-17 the ACCU Shadow is legal and meets IDPA's definitions as it is a complete firearm product, with a specific model number, CZ USA SKU:91730, has more than 2K units manufactured, and is in the CZ-USA catalog. http://www.idpa.com/...v2014-02-17.pdf "Question: Is this slide machining allowed in IDPA?Answer: Yes. With respect to slide machining, SSP, ESP and CDP, Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) firearms with extensive slide machining are approved for use in IDPA if they meet all otherrequirements for their respective Divisions. For slide machining, an OEM product is defined as a complete firearm product, with specific model part numbers or sku’s catalogued as stock items by the manufacturer and have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units for that specific model. Discontinued models must have had a total production of 20,000 units for a specific model. IDPA HQ is working on a process and document to be available on www.idpa.com to allow OEMs to identify firearms that meet this requirement." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Awesome. The CZ Accu-Shadow is so good, that its not legal for idpa. Too fast to race;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Awesome. The CZ Accu-Shadow is so good, that its not legal for idpa. Too fast to race;-) But this one is good to go: Guess the S&W Performance Center guns are legal but CZ Custom are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I think the difference is s+w are the oem. Cz USA or cz custom are not the oem in this case. Cz ub is. This sounds like the same hurdle the accu hit in IPSC. It's a shame for anyone who bought one for idpa. Bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan92 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I think the difference is that S&W and WC pour money into IDPA and CZ does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I think the difference is s+w are the oem. Cz USA or cz custom are not the oem in this case. Cz ub is. This sounds like the same hurdle the accu hit in IPSC. It's a shame for anyone who bought one for idpa. Bummer.. About CZ-USA CZ products are imported exclusively by CZ-USA, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the parent company, Ceska Zbrojovka a.s. Uhersky Brod, (CZUB) of the Czech Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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