Replacement for Clays

[soflarick]

Good to know, thanks. Can't find E3 anywhere, either.

Edited July 15, 2014 by soflarick

[Yeti]

Alliant's Clay Dot is an excellent stand in for Hodgdon Clays. I switched over to CD after (another) shortage of HC about 7 or 8 years ago. The performance of CD is not a perfect match to HC, but it is darn close.

Unfortunately, many of the widely used faster shotgun/pistol are still difficult to always find when you want.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Yeti

[Joe D]

I found Clay Dot to be identical to Clays in my chrono tests. Minor PF only testing done. BTW if you are having light charges of Clays/CD dropping inconsistent weights strap one of these to the side of your Dillon hopper. http://www.walmart.com/search/?query=aquarium%20pump&typeahead=aquarium%20pump I made a hook out of a clothes hanger and stuck the end into the vent hole in the hopper lid. Took an elastic strap off some sunglasses to snug it up against the aluminum bottom. I threw 20 charges of 2.4 gr of Clays. They were identical.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Joe D

[Yeti]

Now that is an interesting idea to help migrate the powder down. Somebody is thinking. Thanks, Joe.

[zzt]

In shotshell reloading i can see no difference between Clays and Clay Dot except the color of the debris. In my 5" 1911 I find that CD gives more velocity per charge than Clays. However, the lots I am using for 45 ACP are different than the lots used for 12b, so that may account for the difference. Using a 200gr H&G 68 LSWCBB loaded to 1.240" I use 0.2gr less of CD to equal my 3.8gr Clays bullseye load.

I've used up the last speck of my Clays, but I don't think I'll be buying more even when it becomes available. I like the Clay Dot better and, at least when I bought my last 8lbs, it was a lot less expensive.

Edited October 28, 2014 by zzt

[Fuzz]

Does anybody have the Data for Clay Dot in 45 acp as the replacement for Clay's. I just found an 8 lb keg as well and I cannot seem to find any data on the load. I still prefer print over Homebrews. LOL

I am using 230 gr Extreme plated rn. I have contacted Alliant via email and am waiting on a response. Hoping someone here may have it.

[louu]

Does anybody have the Data for Clay Dot in 45 acp as the replacement for Clay's. I just found an 8 lb keg as well and I cannot seem to find any data on the load. I still prefer print over Homebrews. LOL

I am using 230 gr Extreme plated rn. I have contacted Alliant via email and am waiting on a response. Hoping someone here may have it.

4.2 grains of Clay Dot at 1.25 OAL will give you about 730 FPS out of a 5 inch 1911 with those bullets.

Edited November 21, 2014 by louu

[thermobollocks]

Does anybody have the Data for Clay Dot in 45 acp as the replacement for Clay's. I just found an 8 lb keg as well and I cannot seem to find any data on the load. I still prefer print over Homebrews. LOL

I am using 230 gr Extreme plated rn. I have contacted Alliant via email and am waiting on a response. Hoping someone here may have it.

Use the exact same printed data as Hodgdon Clays.

[Fuzz]

This is Alliants response to my email to them.

Clay Dot is close to Clays for shotshells. However, it is NOT a propellant rated for pistol loads. Clay Dot is not to be used for any pistol loads. It is a shotshell propellant only

I called them and they would only say the same thing. No testing has been done.

Then I speak with another guy and he says no testing has been done so they are required to say that. Then he says it is the same as clays so just use there data.

[BASE772]

So where is the love for good ol Bullseye. So far I've used 231, Titegroup, Clays, Bullseye, and WST in .45 all with coated lead bullets. I like Bullseye the best. Clays is the cleanest but the rest are about the same as far as being dirty.

[thermobollocks]

So where is the love for good ol Bullseye. So far I've used 231, Titegroup, Clays, Bullseye, and WST in .45 all with coated lead bullets. I like Bullseye the best. Clays is the cleanest but the rest are about the same as far as being dirty.

.45 is nice in that you can make major easily and comfortably with just about anything between N310 and Green Dot on the burn rate chart as long as there's data for it. Anything further's going to be a question of availability and how much you like cleaning.

[Yeti]

This is Alliants response to my email to them.

Clay Dot is close to Clays for shotshells. However, it is NOT a propellant rated for pistol loads. Clay Dot is not to be used for any pistol loads. It is a shotshell propellant only[/size]

I called them and they would only say the same thing. No testing has been done. [/size]

Then I speak with another guy and he says no testing has been done so they are required to say that. Then he says it is the same as clays so just use there data.[/size]

This has been Alliant's position for many years. They engineered ClayDot (CD) to mimic (take back market share from) Hodgdon Clays (HC), which was heavily favored by reloaders in the shotgun sports. Alliant has seen no need to spend $$ to expand the use of CD with supply already being gobbled up. With no "official" testing in metallic directly from Alliant themselves, I used Hodgdon's data and started LOWER and worked up to viable pistol loads. I stated in an earlier post on this thread that "the performance of CD was not a perfect match to HC, but darn close."

My suggestion is to start 10% lower than HC verified/tested data and work it up.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Yeti

[DougCarden]

Minor .40 load with CLAYDOT is identical to CLAYS load, as my chrono verified yesterday......

DougC

[Joe D]

Are folks still finding it difficult finding powder? We seem to be able to find most, not all, pistol and rifle powder here in Alabama. One store in particular, Simmons in Bessemer, gets a steady supply of powder. Of course no Clays, but a pretty good supply of Titegroup, Bullseye and others. They seem to get a good bit of Promo in 8 lb jugs. Promo shoots well in our 9mm, .40 and .45 loads. It appears to fall right between Solo 1000 and Clays as far as charge weight for the same velocity.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Joe D

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Red Dot works for 45 as well. Promo is the same as red dot without the red dots. I still have lots of Clays and Clay Dot but will be needing some Tite Group, HS-6, Auto Comp, Extra-Lite, 20/28, Green Dot next year. Thanks, Eric

[peterthefish]

Hello: Red Dot works for 45 as well. Promo is the same as red dot without the red dots. I still have lots of Clays and Clay Dot but will be needing some Tite Group, HS-6, Auto Comp, Extra-Lite, 20/28, Green Dot next year. Thanks, Eric

Promo performs the same as Red Dot on a weight basis, but does not have consistent density from lot to lot. As a result, one needs to check their powder throw and may need to adjust the measure when switching to a new jug.

[b2bubba]

I have been using IMR 700x for a long time but I ran out. I found WST at Graf & sons.

Tha Hodgdon reloading page www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol shows very comparable loads.

Check it out.

Happy new year & Good Shooting

[dsa]

http://www.leatherheadbullets.com;feels just as nice as Clays, makes 175 PF and it is available. My favorite powder used to be VV N310, but availability has become an issue. The ETR-7 has become my preferred powder because it is available.

[scubajosh77]

http://www.leatherheadbullets.com;feels just as nice as Clays, makes 175 PF and it is available. My favorite powder used to be VV N310, but availability has become an issue. The ETR-7 has become my preferred powder because it is available.

Reviving a somewhat older thread, but can you comment on how clean the ETR7 is and how much it smokes compared to Clays with lead 45 projectiles?

Edited July 1, 2015 by scubajosh77

[dsa]

It's been quite some time since I shot any Clays but I would say it as just as clean as Clays. As far as smoke I use a Hi-Tek coated bullet and smoke is not an issue with ETR-7.

[bowenbuilt]

This is Alliants response to my email to them.

Clay Dot is close to Clays for shotshells. However, it is NOT a propellant rated for pistol loads. Clay Dot is not to be used for any pistol loads. It is a shotshell propellant only[/size]

I called them and they would only say the same thing. No testing has been done. [/size]

Then I speak with another guy and he says no testing has been done so they are required to say that. Then he says it is the same as clays so just use there data.[/size]

I bet the last guy to respond was named Ben.

Edited July 1, 2015 by bowenbuilt

[jmbaccolyte]

So, Ben was fired, I assume? That's the way it usually works.

[BASE772]

Anyone know it e3 meters the same as Clay Dot? Is there any advantage of e3 over Clay Dot?

I'm in the process of switching .45 powder from Bullseye for coated cast bullets. Trying N310 , e3' and Ramshot Competition. But still waiting for the Ramshot to show up. As of now the N310 meters better than e3 but e3 isn't what I would call bad.

And the N310 does have a softer recoil than e3 but again, it's not a huge difference. The only huge difference in the two is the price.

So hoping Competition meters like a dream with a decent recoil.

[bowenbuilt]

So, Ben was fired, I assume? That's the way it usually works.

I was speaking of Ben Amonette who works at the Radford Arsenal for ATK. He is one of the few Engineers there that actually reloads. I always look forward to speaking with him when I visit, he has forgotten more about reloading and gun powder than I will ever know. He would be about the only one there that you could speak to that would not give you some kind of canned answer. I had him test some e3 major loads for me a few years ago before BAE moved in and took the test facility away. Ben is a great guy to spend some time with and always leaves you with something new and a smile.

[zzt]

Base772, for me, e3 meters better than Clay Dot. The worst variation I get is 0.1gr every now and then. Clay Dot has a tendency to bridge in my reloader, and I never get good SDs with it. I use CD for practice loads in the winter, just to use it up.

As far as N310 being softer, it isn't. VV fibs about expected velocities. You'll need to check that with a chrono so you are comparing apples to apples. Also, N310 is extremely temp sensitive, where e3 is not. If you matched velocities at 85 degrees, e3 will give you the same velocity at 40 deg, while N310 will feel a lot softer, because the velocity loss was so high. When I finish up my last 4 lbs. of N310, I won't be buying more. WST, Clays and e3 are far better choices if you want faster powders. Use Solo 1000 if you want a slower burning powder. I use it for my Major loads and never fail to get single digit SDs with them.