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[scottyinAZ]

So where do we stand with all this? are we able to shoot 8 shot minor in revo now or do we have to wait till it passes or whats the story?

[Carmoney]

It's on hold until the next board meeting in (I think) September. They will vote on it then, I guess.

[pskys2]

So where do we stand with all this? are we able to shoot 8 shot minor in revo now or do we have to wait till it passes or whats the story?

You can shoot your 8 shot in USPSA just don't shoot more than 6, I may well try this at some club matches just to get some trigger time on the new blaster.

As for using it with 8 shots that's on hold until a vote by BOD, probably in the next couple of months. And IF it passes, it won't take effect until after the 1st of the year.

[mcb]

I'm shooting my 8-shot in Production until its (hopefully) allowed in Revolver. If your holster is not Production legal shoot Limited-10 Minor (or Major if you got 357 Mag load) Remember your moonclip holders are exempt from the Production location requirements.

[scottyinAZ]

I know I was physically able to shoot my 8 shot in uspsa, I just don't have the willingness. It voids the point of shooting uspsa for me with a 6 shot gun. I am & have been an avid uspsa shooter & I LOVE icore. I'm anxious to shoot uspsa type matches with 8 shot minor revolver as my equipment. I can't help but shoot 8 shots, it's unnatural to reload in the middle of shooting targets within a shooting area. Seems wrong to me. Pskys2 I appreciate your tip & I wish you lots of luck with shooting 6. I just can't get into the 6 shot thing. I should sell my 625 collection to protest. =-)

[scottyinAZ]

And my hammer is not production limited.

[scottyinAZ]

L-10 it is for now

[Tom E]

L-10 it is for now

The next least contested class.

[pskys2]

I know I was physically able to shoot my 8 shot in uspsa, I just don't have the willingness. It voids the point of shooting uspsa for me with a 6 shot gun. I am & have been an avid uspsa shooter & I LOVE icore. I'm anxious to shoot uspsa type matches with 8 shot minor revolver as my equipment. I can't help but shoot 8 shots, it's unnatural to reload in the middle of shooting targets within a shooting area. Seems wrong to me. Pskys2 I appreciate your tip & I wish you lots of luck with shooting 6. I just can't get into the 6 shot thing. I should sell my 625 collection to protest. =-)

I figured you would know, just had to post it for others who might not have thought it. I'm still trying to decide L10, Production or Revo with it when I get a chance. Didn't realize you had the 6 aversion though. It doesn't bother me, it's the lack of competition that does. But then L10 is in the same boat as Revo. So it may have to be Production, still have the spur on. Of course I still remember the days when there were no Divisions, everything heads up. Talk about a 1 gun sport!

[scottyinAZ]

PSKYS2 I agree if we had a few more people that shot 6 shooter with me it would make it more fun. but im not sure I still could stick with it as my primary gun to shoot. also the 625 with major loads makes my wrists sore. my joints get beat up from motocross and 625 seems to finish them off. shooting my 627 for hundreds of rounds in a day seems to have little effect on my joints. and the 627 is more economical to shoot, cheaper bullets and less powder. I would rather shoot 8 shot revo in any match than and auto for the pure fun and its more economical.

scott

[Northern Xtreme]

With eight shot arrays it is obvious that the six shot revolvers will not be as competitive anymore. In single stack major vs minor at least the guy shooting major can still get the job done without an extra reload if he is accurate. With revolver the six shot guy will have the extra reload no matter how accurate he is.

So this will definately change the division to basically require an eight shot revolver to have any chance at winning if you are going to have competitors of equal skill level there.

If you just shoot your revolver because it is fun, it will not effect you. But you can do that in any division. You can shoot a revolver for fun in open division.

This kills the six shooter competitively. The problem is not enough people want to shoot six shooters anymore. I dont know why, I love it. The only reason I stopped shooting revolver is because there was noone to play against.

It sounds like there are more guys that want to play with their eight shot revolvers than there were guys that used the six shooters, so in the end I guess its better.

The old division is dead, and a new one is created. You can still play with your old equipment but it will be just for fun now. I would still shoot local matches with a six shooter and I would love to beat some guys with their 8 shooters just to prove I can, but I would not take a six shooter to a major match against the top revolver shooters and expect to have a chance of winning the division because the stages will not be six shot friendly, they will be eight shot friendly.

[Northern Xtreme]

Its really to bad it has to happen now that they finally had a revolver only nationals with great attendance.

I was actually thinking of getting back into revolver.

It would have been good to see if better attended nationals would increase the particpation in revolver divsion as it is.

[COF]

Please repeat after me "The sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling." Repeat as often as necessary

I don't believe having the stand alone nationals is going to increase local participation so we are trying to find ways to do that. One of the options is to allow the 8-shot revolvers. Other ideas are being entertained as well, but the Eor approach doesn't do anything towards achieving that goal. Locally, get involved with setting up the match stages. Help the MD get out of the shoot 8, move, shoot 8, move mentality by providing creative stage designs that provide more than one way to shoot. I believe that is going to do more than anything else to level the playing field between the 6 & 8 shooters.

[mcb]

Where is the rule that requires 8-shot arrays? There is not one as far as I know. The rules allows for a maximum of 8-shots being required from any one shooting location. This is a maximum and stage designers can certainly require less.

Good stages allow many targets to be engaged from more than one location on the stage. If we are going to make stages where targets can only be engage from one location on the stage we might as well scrap all the walls, barrels and other obstacles and just throw a bunch of 3x3 shooting boxes on the ground and designate target engagement. Good stages should almost always be 6-shot/8-shot/10-shot neutral. This is not hard to do by simply allowing targets to be engage from more than one location and using target arrays of various sizes.

There was an article in the most recent Front Sight that was trying to make this point along with some others. A stages with ported walls that allows targets to be engage from only one location is essentially no different from 3'x3' boxes on the ground and designated target engagement.

[Tom E]

In single stack major vs minor at least the guy shooting major can still get the job done without an extra reload if he is accurate. With revolver the six shot guy will have the extra reload no matter how accurate he is.

You're ignoring the other part of the equation. 8 shooters are scored minor, 6 shooters can be major so while there's the reloads (or fewer reloads) there's also a scoring offset to go with it. I think alot of this is going to be negated by our classification system until you get to GM.

I have shot a few USPSA matches with an 8 shot revolver. It was more fun which may be the most important consideration.

I'm in favor of 8 minor 6 major but think we could do more:

8 shooters scored minor with a >120PF

6 & 7 shooters, moonclip fed, scored major with a >160 PF, scored minor with a >120 to 160 PF

6 & 7 shooters, speedloader fed, scored major with a >120 PF

[sperman]

Why do we need to drop the power factor for revolver? Is 5 points even noticeable? Is it just to be different?

[kneelingatlas]

I'm in favor of 8 minor 6 major but think we could do more:

8 shooters scored minor with a >120PF

6 & 7 shooters, moonclip fed, scored major with a >160 PF, scored minor with a >120 to 160 PF

6 & 7 shooters, speedloader fed, scored major with a >120 PF

Do you expect the volunteer with the clipboard to keep that straight? With the proposed 8 Minor rules Revo shooters will check the box or Major or for Minor; I think it's enough work to make sure no one declares Major with an 8 shot, but you want to complicate that further???

[Tom E]

I'm in favor of 8 minor 6 major but think we could do more:

8 shooters scored minor with a >120PF

6 & 7 shooters, moonclip fed, scored major with a >160 PF, scored minor with a >120 to 160 PF

6 & 7 shooters, speedloader fed, scored major with a >120 PF

Do you expect the volunteer with the clipboard to keep that straight? With the proposed 8 Minor rules Revo shooters will check the box or Major or for Minor; I think it's enough work to make sure no one declares Major with an 8 shot, but you want to complicate that further???

"complicate that further???" What would be more complicated? You's still just check major or minor. We do that now with six shooteres. 8 shooters would be added as minor, speedloader six shooters as major. Still just a check in one box or the other.

[Tom E]

Why do we need to drop the power factor for revolver? Is 5 points even noticeable? Is it just to be different?

Change 125 to 120 to match ICORE to allow ICORE shooters to use their existing loads. Make it easier for them to come play.

I think it might be beneficial to look at what power factor off the shelf factory ammo makes and maybe adjust our power factors to suit. Or do the "this ammo is considered to make power factor" thing. Should we have power factors that mean you can't reasonably come play without being a reloader too?

It's hard for me to say nice things about IDPA but they did (only time I can think of) something that made sense, a power factor change for SSR to allow the use of factory ammo.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Tom E

[Northern Xtreme]

In single stack major vs minor at least the guy shooting major can still get the job done without an extra reload if he is accurate. With revolver the six shot guy will have the extra reload no matter how accurate he is.

You're ignoring the other part of the equation. 8 shooters are scored minor, 6 shooters can be major so while there's the reloads (or fewer reloads) there's also a scoring offset to go with it. I think alot of this is going to be negated by our classification system until you get to GM.

I have shot a few USPSA matches with an 8 shot revolver. It was more fun which may be the most important consideration.

I'm in favor of 8 minor 6 major but think we could do more:

8 shooters scored minor with a >120PF

6 & 7 shooters, moonclip fed, scored major with a >160 PF, scored minor with a >120 to 160 PF

6 & 7 shooters, speedloader fed, scored major with a >120 PF

No, I'm not ignoring any part of the equation. Major power factor is not enough to offset the extra two rounds. An "A" hit is worth 5 points no matter what power factor.

Your GM comment holds no water. Many of the classifiers are eight shot strings, revolvers have often had to do extra reloads but it didnt matter because all of the revolvers had too, so inter-division scoring was not effected.

[Northern Xtreme]

I'm not saying changing the division is necessarily bad. It may increase participation. Maybe there are more eight shot guys out there than the old six shooter guys.

But I you are kidding yourself if you think this isnt going to force anyone that cares about being competitive at the top level to have an eight shot revolver.

It also may have the opposite effect. Our local club has a handful of guys shooting revolvers. If someone starts bringing an 8 shot and beating them every month, they may decide not to shoot revolver anymore if they cant afford to run out and buy an 8 shooter.

I also disagree with COF that a stand alone nats will not increase local participation. The reason many people have had little interest in the division is because of the low participation on all levels.

If I have a chance to go to the nats like last years with great sponsorship and participation, thats motivation to shoot revolver all season including the local matches to get ready for the nats.

[cylindrically challenged]

At our club we have between 1 and 0 revolver shooters at our matches. You could double that turnout if you pass 6major / 8 minor because I'd start shooting USPSA again. I really disliked all of the standing reloads that you ran into shooting a 625--- so I sold it. I only shoot a 627 now.

[71Commander]

Minor 8 / Major 6 has been approved, for member review and input.

Please contact your area directors directly with your thoughts on changing the division.

As you're my area director, I say "Yea" to the change.

[Tom E]

The reason many people have had little interest in the division is because of the low participation on all levels.

I made a suggestion I think has a chance of increasing participation in Revolver Division:

8 shooters scored minor with a >120PF

6 & 7 shooters, moonclip fed, scored major with a >160 PF, scored minor with a >120 to 160 PF

6 & 7 shooters, speedloader fed, scored major with a >120 PF

No change is going to be perfect for everyone but maybe we should be asking: "Would it be good for the Division"?

Do you have anything to offer that might help increase participation?

[Tom Freeman]

At our club we have between 1 and 0 revolver shooters at our matches. You could double that turnout if you pass 6major / 8 minor because I'd start shooting USPSA again.

Same here in Colorado.

Some of the ICORE guys would come out to play.

I do enjoy the challenge of breaking down a stage into something I can do with a 6 shooter, but making "8 minor" an option sounds like it will do more good for the division than harm.