busyhawk Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) A mulligan, in a game, happens when a player gets a second chance to perform a certain move or action. The practice is also sometimes referred to as a "do-over." We are wondering if during the 2013 Colt and Colt Competition Northwest Multigun Challenge is this would be a good idea. Our thought process is during signing into the match any shooter can pay ~$15.00 and be issued a mulligan ticket to be used anytime during the match, one only can be purchased! Only two mulligans can be used per squad per stage or the time line will crumble. That in itself might get shooters to volunteer to shoot toward the front of the squad:) So, after the shooter is finished with the stage but before he signs the score sheet (Ipad in our case with Practiscore) he must tell the scorekeeper that he wishes to use his mulligan and present his ticket! He will be shuffled to the bottom of the squad pile and have his mulligan. In saying all of this, is this a good thing or not and why? What say you? Sincerely, Busyhawk Prize Table Coordinator 2013 Colt and Colt Competition Northwest Multigun Challenge Co-Match Director and Range Master PS; Extra monies will go to a Junior Program to be announced Edited June 23, 2013 by busyhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I don't like it a lot. Does the first run get thrown out, and the mulligan is the score, good or bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcave Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 They did this at the last High Plains Carbine Challenge. It was $20.00 for the mulligan and funds went to a special cause/group. You kept the score on the mulligan run good or bad. Send a pm to trapr and/or Kurt Miller to get details of how they ran it. It was fun and I don't remember any complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) I was at that match and I used my Mulligan on the first stage...I $%^&'d up. It helped, but the way I shoot, I needed about 3 more! It just adds another thing to think about for the game... But, your idea to limit it per squad is a good one! As a MD, I think schedule, schedule, schedule??? It could take all day! If you had a really long stage, it could mess with the schedule with even just two reshoots...always a worry! I think it has to be right then, not later, like a reshoot! It's a fun thing! When you tank a stage, you have to think to yourself, "did I tank, tank that stage, or just sort of tank that stage? Will I tank the next one better or worse???" Let me know how it goes! Denise Edited June 23, 2013 by Benelli Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 It can (and will) be used strategically to shoot a test run on a stage to try it out. A stage with a high fudge factor might have everyone volunteer to go early to increase the chance of being allowed to use the mulligan and who ever isnt lucky enough to go early might be at a disadvantage. If a pre-determined order is in place, the guys who were "drawn" to shoot it first might be at an advantage. Since most (everyone?) will use theirs, if nothing else to test out a stage, it will most likely add the time of shooting one full stage / shooter to the match. To me it seems like its adding a lot of extra time and hassle to a match for not a lot of benefit. Trying something over and over again is for practice, not matches... I could maybe see a mullingan for gun malfunctions, but not for any arbitrary reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Oh man, I've got some feelings about this one! I have also shot a match with "muligans". When 2 or 3 shooters claim them, if it happens to be a long/hard stage, it WILL back up the next squads. You basically just added 2 or 3 shooters to the squad. There is always a lot of anguish when a shooter has a jamb or some other problem with a gun within the 1st 3-4 seconds from start. I'm pretty sure everyone is in favor of a restart for the unfortunate guy desperately trying to get his gun going. HOWEVER, we are talking about major championships. I'm sorry, but if someone comes to one of these matches with equipment that is not up to par, my opinion is this experience is the only thing that will get him in gear to fix his gear. Being a local match director for 5 years, putting on 14 stages per month, I saw it over and over again that guys would have the same equipment malfs match after match at the local level. It's a championship match, run what you brung, and go to the prize table accordingly. Or name me another sport that has redo's in their championship events. and from another angle: the guy that didn't clean/lube his gun the week before the match (or whatever he didn't think he needed to do) has a malf, and gets a reshoot. the guy that did all the prep work for the major match has no problems. at the end, the guy with the malf goes in front of the hard worker, and grabs the last gun off the prize table.... yes, that's how I really feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Bacus Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I really wish I had one last year when I didn't bother to shoot a nice wide open target on my first stage and cost myself 30 match points. But I'd say no at a match of this level. Run your stages and take what you get. At a local or club level match sure it'd be fun and I'd probably be buying a mulligan every month just to try "that little different way" to shoot a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Did this at a local pistol match years ago...all the cash went to a good cause. But for a big match, no way. Want more fun? Make us use each others gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I've never shot a major match, so I can't comment if it's appropriate there, but I would have bought a mulligan yesterday! The part which worries me is only one mulligan per squad on any stage; I understand the time crunch if everyone uses the mulligan on the same stage or all the unused mulligans get used on the last stage, but I'd be pretty raw if I never got a chance to use it because someone used it ahead of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Patrick Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Seems unfair unless every shooter gets one... I'm not sure that buying ur way out is the answer to Murphy's law... I've had plenty of stages where I couldve used one but the rules for reshoots are pretty fair and operator error/ equip malfunctions r part of the game... Is this a time plus scored event? Isn't there a scoring system using time plus where stage points r still awarded? If ur talking about awards/prize table couldn't u award stage wins as part of ur match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Busyhawk, I've thought about this before. If I were to give out "mulligans" or sell them as a profit stream. I would make you pick where you are going to use it when you buy it. That way as a MD you can plan ahead for thier use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 For High Plains,......We figured it as one extra stage to the match, so you either drop a stage that you have planned, or add one to your plan, and plan accordiingly. We had zero delays due to the mulligan, my thoughts on limiting it to 2 per squad is not a good one, as you potentially hose any of the last shooters in the squad. We made shooters make the decision on the mulligan before their time was given to them for the stage. once the time was given it was too late. No discussions with team/squad mates, make your decision NOW. We gave every shooter a token for the mulligan, and they gave it back when they used the mulligan that way there was no duplicates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Wow, Thank you all for some great input! I thought of most of the comments already but there is some other information that I didn't consider. Please keep it coming if you have some constructive criticism/ideas. BBD and Benelli Chick, love the idea of making the decision right after the end of the course of fire but before time is given...saves time and it is the shooters decision and not possibly a group decision. Morgan P, Every shooter has the option to get a mulligan...the cost of $15 is "NOT" cost prohibitive but decision unfriendly . The match is Time Plus and yes we could do Stage Wins but chose not to...that is just a shooters bragging rights thing for this match. Kneelingatlas, Everyone in the squad will be able to use their mulligan as only 2 can be used on a stage of any one squad...Yes, there is a possibility that everyone wants/waits till the last stage to try to use them...that will not work. Outerlimits...If you want more fun you can use my gear...I will even load it for you! Trust me Springy...Let me just name a few Championships that have more than one chance to win...The NBA, Major League Baseball World Series, The Tour de France, World Cup Soccer....just a few. Of course we are having each shooter do the same and he has 9 stages to get to the end so I understand your statement and I believe what you are saying...good points. Dan S...Yes, the first run is never recorded...like it never happened so the mulligan run is the only one that would count. Thank you to all that commented... Sincerely, Busyhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 I have been asked about this from shooters...I don't come up with this stuff on my own...I am not a smart man! Yes, many can attest to this! Busyhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Busyhawk, Since you're limiting how many can use them, you might make them buy their mulligans BEFORE the match starts for $15 and if they don't use it at all...give them back $20. Though with all those gamers, then no one will use them and you're out a bunch of money! Maybe give them something else if they don't use their Mulligan! But they can't buy it when they need it, they have to buy it early... Just an idea! Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMBOpen Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) Check with Yuma Match Masters. The annual charity match sells Mulligans in advance, they get used on the shooters choice stage, after all stages are shot. Edited June 23, 2013 by NMBOpen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 My thought would be, if you are doing a match for charity, and that is how the match is billed, do whatever you want to get the most $$$ for your cause. Sell mulligans, whatever. But, if you are having a match to determine best shooter in each division, or a "championship" it has to be a one run per stage deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Like Trapr said - he did it and it seemed to work at his match. (It was fun!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Mulligan for a dq? Just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgtsvi Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Maybe have all the mulligan shooters do their re shoots after the match has concluded and before scores are done. That would keep down the lag time for squads to move through the stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I don't really like it for many of the reasons stated above. When the prize table and placement are on the line, I guess I just think you run your stages and take your times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 High Plains did it and all I really felt was that it added another strategy to the game. Figuring out before you signed your score sheet if that was going to be the worst you screwed up all day or not was fun. It also made the match more fun because you got to try to better a bad performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BD Williamson Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Its a major match not a local match or like we have here in Yuma which is a Charity Scholarship match were there is no prize table at stake and the proceeds got to a worthy high school student who has to write a essay to apply for the money. Pro Golf does not get mulligans nor does any other MAJOR type sporting event. Isn't that what this match is a Major sporting event that has 3 Gun Nations points to support it?? Can you tell I have been screwed by mulligans in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sahlberg Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Knowing that I will screw the pooch on one stage, I would gladly pay beforehand for a "Mulligan"..... if one has a stage with a catastrophic failure, this is where the mulligan would be nice to have. I seriously doubt that the Top Shooters would use it unless this happened. Hearing back from those who have run these, they say there is no troubles, so what is there to lose in trying it? If you don't like it, don't buy it! (the only problem I see is that I can screw up several stages and being able to choose which stage might be hard, can I buy 3 or 4 :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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