Should USPSA allow 8-shot minor in Revolver Division?

[Norther]

Here's the big question: What is it that USPSA has that you want, that's different from ICORE?

Matches in my state.

[TGO]

Here we go again for just a little more.

TGO, You are Personally invited to the 2013 Memphis Charity Challenge November 1 and 2.....Please bring both your 625 and your 627 (by the way Sprinfield has been the Match Sponsor from the beginning and you have always had a free slot. I guess it just hasn't been forwarded to you)

USPSA as it is now for a Revolver to shoot is a challenge to make a 6 round capacity gun fit into a game that is based on 8 shots per general shooting area unless the stage is designed by someone who puts a bunch of thought into the stages to make them " NO GUN FRIENDLY"

To shoot a Revolver in USPSA now 1 of the challenges it to be able to work in the several reloads where they are not in a "Good Spot" to do so. That is part of the game as it is and as a MD and Stage designer for the MCC my stages are quite more "revolver friendly" but they are still USPSA stages with all the same challenges.

Good stage design will help keep a 6+ round gun shooting minor competitive with the 6 major guns. Until the Stage designers learn how to make the stages "no gun friendly" the 6+ minor guns will have a small advantage.

The 2012 Memphis Charity Challenge had a smaller showing than the previous matches. Several reasons, one the Steel Challenge was scheduled on the same weekend, but there were other reasons I was told. I even told Matt Griffin to stay home and let his arm heal after the nationals where he competed with the other 16 revolver shooters.....Where was I for Nationals? @ home, I've been to 7 National Championships I know where I stand with everyone and now that I've hurt my "Good hip" I didn't see the need to spend $3000 (What is costs me in lost time @ work, ect. ect.) to get hit by a bouncing ricochet or shoot the same place I always have.

I would love to see anything to help the division grow. allowing 6+ to shoot minor and not have to reload after 6 shots is cool with me as I voted no change for me. Would I go buy one? NO......I'm gonna kick your ass with MY 646----Notice I didn't say 625 ??? and make you like it (after I get a hip replacement and can move again "Hopefully)

If the powers that be decide not to allow 6+ guns, maybe drop the Change to open for more than 6 before the reload to a procedural per shot fired after 6....I'm good with that too. I'm still gonna kick your ass with my 646 and make you like it.

USPSA has its own UNIQUE challenges for a revolver that ICORE doesn't and that is why I shoot USPSA with a revolver. ICORE is around where I live (Gotta drive but I can get there) but I still choose to shoot USPSA.

Oh Bye the way the 2013 Memphis Charity Challenge will be held November 1 and 2 We may be doing some changes, pay attention later at the Match listings.

I voted NO change for me. I'll still shoot my 646 Major, might shot it Minor but I'll still be doing everything in my abilities to KICK YOUR ASS !!!!!

TGO Thank you for your help !!!!!

Sam Keen ONE of the 15 ish Revolver Grand Masters .

I know I said I'd leave the thread, but I've been wrong plenty of times before. Thanks for coming in, Sam.

Finally a reason to smile and chuckle in this thread!! Matt, we knew you were never really gone and Sam, do I gotta "like it"? I usually don't!!!

[underlug]

Sure, anything's worth consideration at this point.

I really like the choice offered in SS between 8-major and 10-minor. I shoot SS quite a bit and I believe those two options are usually both viable, depending on stage design.

Personally, I think it would be fun to have the same sort of choice in Revolver. But I don't want to obsolete 6-major.

The perception is that 6-major could not compete in USPSA against 8-minor. I think continued testing with an open mind could prove that wrong!

I'm getting depressed by the whole mess. Anyone interested in 5 625s, 2 627s, and a 617? I'm going to go dust off my Glocks.

I've had this conversation a couple times with different guys in the last few days.

I wish I just bought a brazos....

Guys, don't get depressed! Think big picture--this is exciting stuff for Revolver shooting in USPSA. Nats this year is going to be the Clash of the Titans!

What is being obsoleted is six shot minor. What is happening is the division is starting to be run for the benefit of "the Titans" at the expense of the average shooter that pays the freight.

Entry into the division will require a 625 or 627. Most of the 627s will be shot by people who already have and shoot 25s. It will not grow the division. Why not a poll of how many shooters are not shooting USPSA revolver and have 8 shot revolvers that they would shoot, if legal? Maybe a poll of 6 shot minor shooters that would drop out if 8 shots were allowed.

You will never know how many will not enter the division because of the high cost of a competitive gun.

Even the sycophants will eventually figure where the nationals concept and the allowance of 8 shots actually leads.

Edited February 9, 2013 by underlug

[buckaroo45]

This to hopalong,

You don't know me, you'll never meet me and you can undoubtedly "KICK MY ASS" w/ a revolver but you ain't gonna make me LIKE IT!

US Navy Aviator

NRA Life member

USPSA FY63917

SoFla Pistol Club

Lucky enough to be born American

[Bubber]

Sure, anything's worth consideration at this point.

I really like the choice offered in SS between 8-major and 10-minor. I shoot SS quite a bit and I believe those two options are usually both viable, depending on stage design.

Personally, I think it would be fun to have the same sort of choice in Revolver. But I don't want to obsolete 6-major.

The perception is that 6-major could not compete in USPSA against 8-minor. I think continued testing with an open mind could prove that wrong!

I'm getting depressed by the whole mess. Anyone interested in 5 625s, 2 627s, and a 617? I'm going to go dust off my Glocks.

I've had this conversation a couple times with different guys in the last few days.

I wish I just bought a brazos....

Guys, don't get depressed! Think big picture--this is exciting stuff for Revolver shooting in USPSA. Nats this year is going to be the Clash of the Titans!

What is being obsoleted is six shot minor. What is happening is the division is starting to be run for the benefit of "the Titans" at the expense of the average shooter that pays the freight.

Entry into the division will require a 625 or 627. Most of the 627s will be shot by people who already have and shoot 25s. It will not grow the division.

Even the sycophants will eventually figure where the nationals concept and the allowance of 8 shots actually leads.

Underlug, Can they be obsolute if I am still shooting the L frame minor? And dern you for making me look up dem big wurds.

And I never like gittin my a$$ kicked...Oh I am used to it...but don't like it

[alecmc]

Here's the big question: What is it that USPSA has that you want, that's different from ICORE?

Matches in my state.

x2

[Lentz]

If you want to shoot a 8 shot why not shoot icore.

[TGO]

If you want to shoot a 8 shot why not shoot icore.

Good idea!

I do shoot my 8 shooter, in ICORE, Once a month and if I want, every tuesday night at Rio Salado at tuesday night steel in revolver class.

Maybe what we need to do is change this whole thread to getting USPSA Revo shooters into ICORE. Then they'd all buy 8 shooters and everybody would be happy?

Interesting that Steel Challenge, ICORE, Bianchi Cup and TNS allow 8 shot in revo. But If I wanted to shoot USPSA/IPSC, which is completely different most of the time, I shoot my 625 to get the major scoring since I am limited to 6 rounds fired only. That's the only time I use them, except for excessive dry firing.

The games are all different if you are trying to be competitive.

BTW, Just put a Ti cylinder in my backup beater 625. Also just bought a new 5" 625 barrel for it. Funny, I have to have a dry fire gun to save the wear on my match 625's. My 627 supers don't seem to beat the hell out of the cylinder stop notches like the 6 .45 does?

How do I get Randy to do the trigger before May? That's the real dilemma here. Now working up minor loads for the 625. Just to practice and save a little wear and tear on my old, tired, fat, lazy hands.

[ChrisC]

TGO:

My gunsmith retimes the gun so keep that from happening. To the cylinders. He has built ppc guns for years and I would put the three revos against anyone out there.

[seanc]

How do I get Randy to do the trigger before May? That's the real dilemma here. Now working up minor loads for the 625. Just to practice and save a little wear and tear on my old, tired, fat, lazy hands.

Reworking a quote from a friend, "I don't know if you know this or not, but you are kind of a big deal".

I suspect, though could easily be wrong, that you could probably get your's done before may...way before.

[Pete Whyte]

I started shooting my 625 at our club here in Fl.last year. There were 2 or 3 of us at our Tues. night matches out of 40 - 50 shooters .This year we have a few more, nothing to write home about, but its a start. Every night I've shot, there has been someone say to me, man I would love to try that some night. I told them they could try mine out after the match, & if they liked it I would bring in an extra gun so they could shoot next week's match with a revolver. Most said they had their own revolvers at home, but never shot them. Some said ,to hard to shoot, not enough shooting, the neighbors cat died, you get the picture. I would love to be in a match sometime with limited shots the entire match.I see a lot of shooters that seem to be out of control with speed, & when we go down to score it shows. I, for one, feel it"s easier to shoot a revolver, plus the fact their very accurate. Back in N.H. this past summer,my daughter, having never shot a revo. before, put an 8 inch pie plate with a red bingo dobber marked in the center. We put it out to 10 yards.She used my carmonized 625 5inch 173 pf, standing,double action, put 6 rounds on the plate that we covered with a half dollar coin. she did it again on the 2nd. plate. I have those pie plates and sometimes bring them with me when we have our local matches back home & let others see how easy it is. My daughter went to a gun store a few days later and picked up a nice M 19-2. If anyone ever asks questions about shooting revolvers, spend the time with them, theres interest there. That's one way of of getting more revo shooters. Don't be afraid to ask questions. I've shot with two of the best revolver shooters out there. Craig B. & Cliff W. Both went out of their way to help. I know there area lot of 6 shot .38s out there & a 6 shot minor cut for moon clips would be the nuts. I know a lot of people out there that already have a 686, but not to many have a 627. I feel having 6 shot minor is the way to go. How did you like the way I put this in one paragraph? cool huh. SEMPER-FI

[Blueridge]

How about this...While we discuss the topic of 6+ shot revolvers we get the 2013 Revolver Nationals Match full. From there we can see how interest in the division is going.

I personally don't have a problem with 7 or 8 shot revolvers coming into useage for USPSA, I just have no interest personally to use one. The advantage of an 8 shot over a 6 shot is debateable, and thus will be debated. Games have rules and parameters by which those interesed choose to abide by. If changes need to be made they will be at some point, and then the rules and parameters will allow for different options. It took this long for a stand alone Revolver Nationals to come to fruition, and the requested consideration for 8 shot revolvers seems to be the next hurdle. Seems like a bit of getting the cart before the horse at the moment. Let us get through the Revolver Nationals so that it can be shown what the current interest is, and then the 8 shot revolver issue can be addressed.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Blueridge

[Koppi]

I liked it ! Mr. Whyte, Tom Drazy is having a 686 cut for moon clips by GrundhauserGunWorks as we speak.

Change is inevitable ---

SEMPER-FI back at ya!

[slflr]

If you want to shoot a 8 shot why not shoot icore.

"Eureka!"

[toothguy]

If you want to shoot a 8 shot why not shoot icore.

"Eureka!"

Like many others revolver shooters, I would love to shoot ICORE but that isn't available to me locally. Making a space for 8 shot revolvers in USPSA would be the next best thing and would hopefully grow the division. I think there needs to be a subdivision between the 8 and 6 shot revolvers so they are both recognized as revolvers but they don't compete directly against each other. I think it's great to add new shooters but not at the expense of the existing loyal shooters that have earned there spot.

[slflr]

If you want to shoot a 8 shot why not shoot icore.

"Eureka!"

Like many others revolver shooters, I would love to shoot ICORE but that isn't available to me locally. Making a space for 8 shot revolvers in USPSA would be the next best thing and would hopefully grow the division. I think there needs to be a subdivision between the 8 and 6 shot revolvers so they are both recognized as revolvers but they don't compete directly against each other. I think it's great to add new shooters but not at the expense of the existing loyal shooters that have earned there spot.

Why not make a personal investment of your time and start an ICORE club? I understand that the Pioneer Gun Club could support an additional discipline. Here is a link to the ICORE club info page.

[Flexmoney]

D-oh. You guys are killing me. We have a sport, under the USPSA umbrella, that is 8-minor friendly. It is Steel Challenge. (I am talking about Steel Challenge, the sport, not THE big match)

If you don't have a Steel Challenge match at your local club...get one going. I ran one for years. They are easy to run! (and VERY Revo friendly)

[toothguy]

If you want to shoot a 8 shot why not shoot icore.

"Eureka!"

Like many others revolver shooters, I would love to shoot ICORE but that isn't available to me locally. Making a space for 8 shot revolvers in USPSA would be the next best thing and would hopefully grow the division. I think there needs to be a subdivision between the 8 and 6 shot revolvers so they are both recognized as revolvers but they don't compete directly against each other. I think it's great to add new shooters but not at the expense of the existing loyal shooters that have earned there spot.

Why not make a personal investment of your time and start an ICORE club? I understand that the Pioneer Gun Club could support an additional discipline. Here is a link to the ICORE club info page.

That's an excellent idea and I am a member. I have given that some thought and have talked to a few people about it. No one I know, myself included, has the time to devote to make it happen. Most shooters I know have cut back due to availability of components and the economy. Currently I think it will be difficult to start another sport but a new experience in an existing sport may work.

[Daniele]

This topic was discussed some time ago also in IPSC Global Village forum, unfortunately the 8 minor option was not introduced in IPSC rule.

At the same time Modified Division was cancelled ( too few shooters) and Single Stack introduced.

From time to time rumors arise about Revo Division agonizing and thus requiring a quick death.

If USPSA decide to try the 8 minor option and if tit works,increasing number or roundshooters, maybe also IPSC will adopt it.

Going OT, yes I use my 7 and 8 shot in Steel Challenge and ICORE shooting: I love my 342, 686, 646,627,617 and I like to use them too!

[slflr]

Fortunatly there are people who voluteer their time to support both ICORE and USPSA. Without them, we can't maintain the sports, much less grow them.

Thanks Kyle.

[seanc]

Fortunatly there are people who voluteer their time to support both ICORE and USPSA. Without them, we can't maintain the sports, much less grow them.

Thanks Kyle.

Absolutely.

Thank and RO, MD, or anyone that is helping run the match today!

[toothguy]

Fortunatly there are people who voluteer their time to support both ICORE and USPSA. Without them, we can't maintain the sports, much less grow them.

Thanks Kyle.

Absolutely, since there is always a shortage of qualified people and now components, It seems like this would be the time to hold ground and not stretch things thinner. Since ICORE has 57 clubs and USPSA has over 350, it would seem that there would be greater opportunities to shoot a revolver at an existing USPSA club. It might help ICORE as well, letting shooters get set up until an ICORE club could be established.

Edited February 10, 2013 by toothguy

[Jaxshooter]

I don't know about other areas but in my area we had SC on Sundays when there were no regular USPSA shoots. Now all the clubs have moved these matches to Saturday mornings conflicting with the regular matches. One SC match on Saturday is less than 3 miles from the USPSA match. It is run by the owner of the gunclub not volunteers. When the match was on Sunday they had 45-60 shooters now if they have 25 it is alot. Just to lazy to get up and come in or trust somebody else to run it.

[professor]

I voted "about the same" as my first gun at local matches is always a revolver, and I'll bring out the XD-40 when I've got time for a second go-round. If 8 shot is allowed, I'll likely switch to that, because my accuracy is pretty good and the extra 2 rounds per moon clip will make a big difference in planning how to shoot stages.

Of course, I'll have to get another gun, or two, which can be pricey given the current climate for buying ANYTHING that fires a bullet. Will an 8-shot revolver be legal in New York, with the state's asinine 7-shot magazine limitation?

[Matt Griffin]

I voted "about the same" as my first gun at local matches is always a revolver, and I'll bring out the XD-40 when I've got time for a second go-round. If 8 shot is allowed, I'll likely switch to that, because my accuracy is pretty good and the extra 2 rounds per moon clip will make a big difference in planning how to shoot stages.

Of course, I'll have to get another gun, or two, which can be pricey given the current climate for buying ANYTHING that fires a bullet. Will an 8-shot revolver be legal in New York, with the state's asinine 7-shot magazine limitation?

Hilariously no, when you consider the difference between 8 .357s and 7.380s or whatever. But then sadly yes, as soon as someone whispers in the right ear about the horrifically overpowered Assault Revolver.