What can we do to make USPSA grow?

[OperationHitFactor]

Is it bad that shooting toilets from a couch on the front porch sounds kind of fun to me.

[Sheperd80]

Is it bad that shooting toilets from a couch on the front porch sounds kind of fun to me.

Lol no, i kinda laughed while typing that and thought i must be atleast a little redneck because that would probably keep me entertained for awhile.

[leas327]

I laughed...then I realized I have shot a toilet and a television.

Now tears are running down my dirty red neck.

[Skydiver]

I laughed...then I realized I have shot a toilet and a television.

Now tears are running down my dirty red neck.

Dude, remember the first rule of dry firing... make sure and double sure that the gun is unloaded.

[Jim Norman]

I have shot cell phones. We have Nextel (no=tel) at work and years back they were all rather large bricks with near zero range. We hung them on targets at a multi-gun to designate the shoot targets on one stage. They don't stop even 9mm handgun rounds

[leas327]

To get this back on subject. I agree with whoever said we need to go after people who compete in other venues. They already know how it is to go out for the first time, not really know what is going on and then get your ass kicked by guys with skills they think aren't possible. That part won't be new for them. If they enjoy it they will probably be likely to invest heavily in gear and commit time to the sport.

[Bunchies95]

I have been thinking about this topic a lot today. One aspect that we are missing here is the "Competition Factor". Even though there are millions of gun owners in the USA only a very small subset of those gun owners are also interested in participating in competitive activities. Then out of that small subset of competitive gun owners an even smaller subset are interested in competitive handgun shooting. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of gun owners are simply "Plinkers" that like to go out and shoot once in a while for the simple enjoyment of shooting.

As much as we would like to say "I only shoot USPSA for fun and am not competitive" we all know that statement is false. We all show up and compete to the best of our ability for some competitive reason or another which feeds the competitive needs we desire. The different levels of competitiveness is endless. For some its all about beating your buddy, shooting a clean match, winning a national title, or anything in between. In the end we are still competing for something and crave the competition. Its what drives us to keep coming back.

It is true that competitive shooting is not for everyone. I do know a few people who shoot for fun and don't care about being competitive. Thing is, they don't look like they are having much fun because they are not competitive. You can just see the frustration in their face when a piece of steel is really kicking their butt. The ones who look like they are having the most fun, are the B/C class shooters who shoot a majority of local matches but rarely practices. As long as they shoot with their buddies of equal skill, they are happy as can be just because they are shooting. I might be wrong, but this subgroup seems to make up the vast majority of USPSA members.

Shooters who do not have this need for competition will never be long term USPSA shooters. They may do it here or there for the fun of shooting but at some point they just don't see the point in it since they don't care about competition. These are most of the shooters that come to a few matches and never come back.

Ok, where am I going with this........... The point I am trying to make is that our marketing for USPSA matches should not be focused on the general shooting community (gun stores, gun shows, tactical guys, other shooting event, NRA members, etc) . It should be focused on other competitive sports that are non-shooting related. The people I am talking about are the ones who participate in Auto Racing, Golf, Basket Ball, Base Ball, Bike Racing, Track & Field, Team Sports, etc. These are the people who would truly enjoy the competitive environment of USPSA style matches. Maybe we should venture out of our "Shooting Community" comfort zone to look for more USPSA shooters?

This is a very astute observation. "Non-shooters" with a competitive personality would stick around longer, if we can get them interested in shooting.

But do we really want track stars in the sport? I already lose time between positions if it is more than a few steps. Teach someone with that kind of explosive power to shoot and move smoothly, there would be no hope left for me

[twodownzero]

I have brought as many people into the sport as I could. I have been personally responsible for bringing in a bunch of people over the years. I try to encourage every gun owner that I know to shoot a match with me.

And I think that's enough. Here in northern Virginia, they restrict who can come to matches and if you don't sign up a week in advance, you can't get a slot at all. Volunteers are working their asses off to even hold these matches, and they're doing so with too little help.

When I finally graduate from the graduate program I'm in, and move permanently to a location where I will have one local club, I hope that I can volunteer my time to help one club grow. Because that's what we need. I've shot in Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey, and Virginia all in just the last 3 years and nearly every club has the same few people, sometimes as few as 2 or 3, who design, build, and administer entire matches. That's just too much work for 3 people.

Until then, I volunteer for every major match that I can work, both as a strategy to be able to afford to shoot major matches AND to give back to the sport since I'm a transient and don't really have one local club. Even though I am working an unpaid job this summer, I spent over $300 to fly home to staff Area 5 because I volunteered before I knew that I was going to be on the east coast this summer and I wanted to make sure that they had sufficient staff to put on a good match. Of course, I got to shoot the match, too, and see a bunch of my friends from home at the same time. But giving back to this sport is something that every competitor, especially those of you out there who have been doing this for 4-5 years and have not taken the RO class, should be doing.

[ziebart]

I agree with Bunchies95, you have to have a moderate amount of skill to enjoy the game. I am a low B shooter who doesn't practice much but goes to a match almost every weekend and shoots steel challenge on Monday nights. I do want to get better, but if I start practicing a lot and dedicate myself I will get frustrated if I don't see results at the match. As it is I have nice excuse for why I don't do better.

We have got some new shooters in from a non shooting competive background and they have jumped in with both feet and have made more progress in 6 months than I made in 3 years. They know what they want and are willing to do what it takes to get there.

[Fuelie777]

I have been the Match director for the local steel challenge match for the past two years. When I "took over" we got maybe 25 to 30 shooters for a five stage match. I decided to work on a little adverstising, especially encouraging newer shooters to come out to try the Steel Challenge format. Also, our club offers a beginning USPSA course that encourages shooters to come out the Action Pistol Steel Challenge Match.

This has been a good success. I now have 60 to 70 shooters each month. We shoot six stages. But, since we all know this is a volunteer sport, help is greatly appreciated. We always need trained RO's, people to set up, take down. Without the the RO's then the squands become cumbersum in trying to keep it 3 to 4 hours. Very hard to do at times. If there is to much waiting around, then people get frustrated and may not come back out. When I played golf, taking in a 5 to 6 hour round is not what I would want to do and would not. Shooting a six stage Steel Match seems not a lot, but the planning, the scorekeeping, getting it organized takes a lot of time. I believe due to the time spent in prepping for the match has helped it become more fun and allows newer shooters to participate. Each match has between 6 to 15 new shooters. I have had families get involved together.

The sport is growing. But to keep it growing, keeping RO's, organization, good patient additude, keeping the rules, and coaching the newer shooters on the rules is helping.

But as with most volunteer operations, 20% of the people perform 80% of the work. One of the most important jobs in running the match, besides the #1 item Safety, is to work on uncovering other people to step up to the plate and help. I can see how easy it is to get burned out if we cannot find enough people to help. That is one of the biggest issues I believe we face.

Fuelie777

[tommyrot]

i agree that it would be great to get more people involved especially shooters, but there NEEDS to be something to educate the uninitiated to proper ettiquite on the range ie: no showing your gun off behind the shooting line or drawing your pistol and pointing it toward someone asking them if your grip looks good etc,etc. i have only been shooting IPSC for 4 years and am thank full for the RO's that are made up of the longest duration shooters, and oh yeah i SUCKED for about 2 years but with encouragement and determination i have improved to the point i slightly suck and am seeing improvement. so yes be very afraid of mall ninja's and play station commando's and be intolerant of idiots that will not listen ,but also keep trying to get people you know out to shoot cuz it adds up even if they don't shoot matches it won't hurt the sport to be viewed in a positive light by educating people about the sport and more so exsposing them to correct gunhandling, discounting some GM gettin their game on and squirting their pistol downrange in front of everybody( we still give him crap about that one)but also there is a downside to growth a local tac match that my mentor and i started attending 4 years ago has gone from 1 day a month with maybe 3-5 people showing up to 3 day's with about 7-10 people a day showing up so that can make for a looong day which in the summer is even longer with 90 degree day's and it's been the same match director doing set up and tear down for the last 10 years so we're hpeing that he wo'nt burn out soon

[Red Ryder]

There is definitely a need to grow the sport at the local level. More help = better matches. I have not heard of any awesome ideas to grow the sport nor have I come up with any. I invite friends that may be interested but the truth is that is very expensive to participate. To outfit someone to shoot 3-4 matches a month can cost upwards of $200+ a month just for walmart ammo. Add in the cost of a gun + extras is a one time fee of $900+ just for production. Reloading, which is a cost necessity after a while, is a whole nother hobby with a 1500+ start up fee with a progressive press and extras and a case or 2 of good bullets and powder. Some people don't want to learn another hobby. Most folks cannot justify the cost. The sick and addicted few that play this game are just that,,,,addicted!

Money is the limiting factor fellas! Figure out how to sped... I mean spread the addiction is the key to growing this sport.

[ChuckS]

There is definitely a need to grow the sport at the local level.

Not so sure about this! We had 136 shooters at our last weekly match!

[Sin-ster]

As others have started to note, the first place the sport has to grow is at the administrative club level and in regards to the facilities. More shooters without more people to organize and manage matches is simply not going to work-- and we can't continuously expand the size of current matches that are already pushing a "max capacity".

Here's an experience I had recently while traveling to see family and shoot a few matches while I was in the area.

Here in SE Louisiana, I thought I had it pretty good being able to shoot a USPSA match every Sunday, and a Steel Match two Saturdays out of the month. My average drive time is about an hour and fifteen minutes-- made in the shade.

My family lives in the Tampa Bay area in Florida. I remember checking out their clubs online about a year ago and realizing that I could shoot even MORE often there, with less total drive time. Odd, considering the "big city" nature of that Metro Area.

While I was there, my brother-in-law invited me out to a practice match run by one of the clubs closest to the place where I was staying; they host one every Tuesday and Friday night. When I showed up, I was absolutely blown away. These were not Standards and Speed Shoots-- 3 out of the 4 stages were Field Courses of 20-30 rounds each, complete with walls, ports, poppers and plates. At least 40 (and I think closer to 60) people had shown up on a Tuesday, many driving through rush hour city traffic to make it...

I realized that what REALLY made the whole thing possible was 1) a willing facility to host the event, 2) LIGHTS and 3) people to organize, set up and operate the match.

Because it was 20 minutes away and I was on vacation, I had no problem showing up early and helping to set up a couple of stages. Here at home, it's just not possible/practical for me to spend 2.5 hours on the road on a Saturday to set up, then 2.5 on Sunday to shoot. Nor can I be part of the organizing/administrative body for those clubs for the same reasons.

Here in SE Louisiana, we shoot at one commercial range that simply cannot afford to close off 5-6 bays more than once or twice a month on the weekends. We shoot at a privately maintained/club operated range that is more willing, but understaffed in terms of match volunteers. We shoot at two police ranges who are gracious enough to let us use their facilities-- but again, not dominate them throughout the week. And we shoot in a sand pit way off in the cut that is an absolute BEAR on those who run the match, due to the terrain and size issues that effect set up. None of them can support night matches, so shooting during the week is out for that reason as well.

First and foremost, more facilities are almost required to truly reach the growth rates that the OP wants to see. Places that are designed almost exclusively for shooting sports, where closing down to host matches is not an issue; if they are set up for night shoots during the week, all the better. Ideally, they would be centrally located in regards to the local population so that the largest number of people can attend without blowing a tank of gas or an entire day just traveling.

Next, and equally important, is the need for folks to host and run those matches in their free time. Needless to say, some people just aren't going to have the extra time on their hands-- work, family, whatever. Those that do will have limited time at best-- time they probably SHOULD be spending with family, or just maintaining their own personal sanity... Incentives, even if it's just the cost of their travel, would probably go a long way making it more viable for a larger group of people.

Ideally, a USPSA funded and organized effort to grow the sport is really the only solution for rapid and controlled expansion. New ranges require not only land and construction, they also require insurance and often a lot of paperwork to clear the local governments-- all things that large organizational bodies are vastly better at accomplishing than a small collection of individuals. Similarly, creating incentives for people to come up and spend their time working on/at/after a match is difficult at the local level, but would be far easier to accomplish with a standardized set of practices that applied across all clubs.

What that boils down to... is money. Money we spend already on the organizing body, Nationals, what have you-- and on the club level, on expanding/improving the range, buying new props, and so forth. So it really boils down to EXTRA/more money-- and where that would come from is beyond me... Invest in Power Ball tickets, maybe?

[mwx40x40]

Not allow non-USPSA members in Level II/III matches. Saw it this weekend.

[Thomas H]

Not allow non-USPSA members in Level II/III matches. Saw it this weekend.

I'm thinking that is an extremely minor issue, compared to what most people have been discussing. It is, however, not according to the rules. If you think it is an issue, you should report it to NROI, as obviously the match results will show it.

I'm thinking this occurs so little that it really has no effect on our ability to make USPSA grow, however.

[Skydiver]

Not allow non-USPSA members in Level II/III matches. Saw it this weekend.

Are you sure the "non-USPSA members" didn't file a paid application to the MD at the same time they registered as allowed by 6.4.1?

[BritinUSA]

I think there are two aspects to growing USPSA, there is a growth in numbers (someone mentioned a 5% growth which I think is a healthy number) and there is a potential for financial growth.

I may be wrong but I think the majority of USPSA funds come from membership and classification fees. I think there is a way to grow the sport by investing dollars in the local infrastructure to help fund ranges or props to make the local matches capable of handling more people. But that money has to come from somewhere, if USPSA had another source of revenue to fund its Nationals events then perhaps this could free up some dollars for local investment.

Cash sponsorship of Nationals would aid in that investment but for a big name sponsor (not necessarily gun related) to come on board they would need some bang for the buck, and that is reliant on exposure. Consider an article in Front Sight for Nationals, it will be read by 25K members. Photographs of some top shooters with that sponsors logo would provide a little exposure but it's not much to write home about.

Using video on the other hand opens up some more opportunities, posting those videos on the internet opens up the audience from 25K to potentially millions, if we can grow the exposure of the sport I think we can grow the investment by businesses that seek an opportunity to reach out to a certain demographic. That investment can filter down to the local club scene, in theory, which will help the sport to grow at the local level where we need it.

Of course providing this kind of coverage can be problematic; For a golf tournament the media will have cameras on every hole and record practically every golf shot, the producer will then select the important shots to show to the audience (including the bad ones, hitting it into the lake for example). We cannot afford to post video cameras on every stage nor can we afford the investment necessary to process all that video and present it to an audience. So we have to decide in advance who to cover, essentially the top contenders.

We would need a cameraman for every squad that contained one or more of the top athletes, if they are spread over half a dozen squads then we need 6 cameramen and all the costs associated with that. Put them on 4 squads, two in the morning and two in the afternoon and you only need 2 cameramen and the cost plummets.

I think USPSA needs to focus on growing the investment in the sport and then with extra resources in hand, help out the local clubs to grow our sport at a grassroots level. We can't increase our membership unless we have the facilities necessary to cater to them.

[lef-t]

But as with most volunteer operations, 20% of the people perform 80% of the work. One of the most important jobs in running the match, besides the #1 item Safety, is to work on uncovering other people to step up to the plate and help. I can see how easy it is to get burned out if we cannot find enough people to help. That is one of the biggest issues I believe we face.

Fuelie777

This is exactly the thought I had reading this thread. Exposing new people to the sport is easy and some will take to it and others will not. I feel like the real way to grow the sport is to have more involvement and support on the admin/set-up side. I see the same 50 shooters come to a match on Sunday to be RO'd by the same 4 guys that set-up on Saturday. To me, shooting a match is only part of the fun. Designing/constructing stages is another fun part of the sport which I've also found improved my execution when it came time to shoot. I view it similar to other major sports where what happens on the field is only a small part of everything that is involved leading up to that point. How many people do you know who watch the NFL draft or talk about trades. I think exposing current shooters to the macro view of the sport would help solidify member retention while maintaining the steady influx of fresh faces could lead to healthy long-term growth.

My new question then becomes how can we, as an organization, work to get our existing members interested and more involved in the non-shooting aspects of USPSA to benefit the organization as a whole and keep people involved longer?

[toothandnail]

Rules/penalities , ad nausea m ,

Me and two others , shot 3 matches at 2 different clubs ,

one, FREAKED out cause we had Tac. vests on told us to leave, didn't ask if LEO or MIL , luckily the RM knew us and intervened , STILL we wont go back there.

Other one seemed to be more about setting up the stages to be a memory game/penalties, not shooting/order of target sequence makes NO sense.

Good club/stages , we shoot em as we see see um , don't care about the penalties

sorry , I'll stick to outlaw matches.

[Front Man]

If a city doesn't grow it dies.

We have to grow; but after reading everyone's response I do agree it has to be incremental. Maybe 1% -2% per year should be the goal.

We don't need everyone from the other trigger sports; we need people from other sports. I think Steel Challenge is a great way for recruiting new members. Especially through schools, Scouts, and 4H type of activities.

Target the youth and they will bring their parents;-)!

Just some random thoughts and I think we are the on the right track.

FM

[frankge]

We are running a Jr. Shooters program at the WAC (Wyoming Antelope Club)

[vluc]

If a requirement to show that "X" amount of helping was done as part of continuing USPSA membership, then we reinforce the idea that this is an integral part of the sport. If membership at local gun clubs requires participation of one kind or another, why can't we ask the same of USPSA membership?

All USPSA talks about is the shooting. What we talk about at local matches is the need to help. We have two different perspectives that need to be put together. Grow the sport with helper/shooters, not just shooters.

So the challenge should go our to every single person who shoots USPSA on this forum to be helping in some fashion or another. We can all find an excuse NOT to help. Can we find a reason to help? I'll take a half hour of your time to help tear down a stage, or pull paper targets off when we are finished, or more if you can give it.

If I can capture you at setup and teardwon, then I have a shooter.

[h4444]

I haven't read the whole thread, but here are some things that would help someone in my situation and may pull a few more shooters out.

Occasional Club matches on Saturday's or shorter matches in the evenings on other days of the week. Many shooters have church/family commitments on Sunday's and it seems a LOT of club matches are on Sunday's.

I shoot Thursday nights at a local range, why,,,,,because it isn't Sunday. I'm no saint, but I do find my way to church regularly and it is a priority for my family and I can't run out and stick my wife with all the family duties and she's not really interested in shooting and my kids aren't old enough.

I'm sure I'm not the only shooter that this predominately Sunday scheduling impacts.

Another group that is somewhat left out in the cold are the "family men/women". I missed the last 5 years shooting all together as we starting our family. I now have 3 kids 4 yrs - 9 yrs old. I CAN'T be stuck at a range for 5+ hours at at time during the middle of the day,,,regardless of the day.

The Thursday night matches work pretty good because they start not too long before my little ones go to bed, so I'm not sticking my wife with all the "kid duties".

Those are TWO huge sets of issues for me.

How many of us, or how many of our friends disappear for years on end due to conflicts with family life like this? It isn't for lack of desire to continue in the sport, that's for sure, it is a scheduling problem. These people are out there...if you have friends that have stepped away from the sport, there is an easy source of growth. Go talk to them and figure out a way to flexibly schedule and get them back to the range.

I'm only getting to shoot little 3/4 stage matches on these Thursday's, but let me tell you, I love the sport and these little weekly matches are like my super bowl,,,,,it is all I have right now and I'm thankful for the flexibility to shoot on Thursday nights and I know I CAN'T be the only person in this boat.

[BillD]

My fervent hope is that the hot up and comers get a wife, mortgage and kids before they start making me look really bad

That seems to slow most of em down....