ziebart

Safety is a belt and suspenders approach. If a gun on safe falls out of a bucket then there is LESS risk of ND. Note I say less because it is still mechanical and could fail. If we didn't require them to be on safe then the number of guns abandoned off safe would increase. The probability of falling out is still the same so the danger is increased. I don't know if the numbers increased or not. Does USPSA have records of why someone was DQ'd at each match? Do they record these enhanced penalties? Does anyone in a database? I feel like they have increased, but I don't know if it has, and if so by how much. It would also be interesting to compare them across matches to see if equipment choice played a role. For example did the growth of 2011's in multigun change the numbers vs Glocks? Anecdotes: A person on our squad at USPSA MG nats this year got 2 safety penalties when using a borrowed 2011. The number of guns off safe would have been halved if they would have been DQ'd on the first one. Last year there at SMM3G was one person that felt their SG safety was bumped off after dumping it due to the cutouts in the dump bucket. Not sure what actually happened as I wasn't there, but this is to show that not all of them are from pistols, and could potentially be due to dump buckets. Nothing is perfect and people always seem to find out how it was their fault. Dropping guns in buckets goes back a ways https://youtu.be/x5UX9SaB1nI?t=40 . I tried to find the video of when people just put the guns on the ground instead of in buckets, but couldn't find it.

That is a good solution. Right now it seems like there are equal numbers of people that like the niche divisions, and those that want less divisions with more people in them. Currently that decision is delegated down to the MD who can decide which divisions to offer. For example at Surefire last weekend they did not offer the PCC or 2 Gun divisions. If I was running a "major" with 150 or less shooters I wouldn't offer 2x4 tac or open as any firearms used in those divisions are legal in 2x4 open. I may have some pushback from open shooters that don't own a PCC or don't want to fly in with one. As far as I know, no match has required a PCC, but it does make some stages a lot easier. Multigun is very regional and certain areas have set ideas on what is right. Overall it seems with the increase in matches there are less people flying so 2x4 isn't too bad. If we had to fly I don't think 2x4 is very feasible due to the weight limits.

The only issue with too many divisions is truly having a field deep enough to generate real awards. IMHO being the only person in a division is a waste. I agree with the complainant about the frequency of rules changes. It has been difficult to incorporate many clubs/shooters under one rule set. 22lr has been requested by British shooters as they can't use 223.

There is a lot that goes into hosting a major USPSA multigun match and there are few matches that can host it. I think it makes sense to have it at a range and area that hosts an Area multigun match. I don't think I will attend in 2019, but that is not a slam on the match, USPSA, or the range. It just is what it is.

There are a bunch of folks doing so. From what I've seen, rifle/ PCC is most of the stages. A person may be better off if the steel is small to use shotgun, but PCC holds so many more rounds I think it's a wash.

Thanks for signing up. Please check your junk mail folder in case PS sent it there. I know Dotty is busy with Safariland but she has been going through Surefire registrations today so you should see something soon. I dont think she has denied anyone entry before so you should be good to go. You won't be able to squad until you pay though.

And that right there is the crux of the debate to me. Is a DQ, a deterrent, a punishment, and or a way to prevent future unsafe acts due to the shooter being out of sorts that day? Not saying it can't be all 3 but how a person looks at the why we do it changes how they view it and how to handle it.

IHAVEGAS, I am not promoting a penance fee. My comparison to it was how ridiculous it would be. I don't think we are that far away from it with some matches and some of the posts here.

If you can buy in a second gun or division after a match DQ then Nathanb is right, what is stopping you? At that point why not just allow them to rebuy their match fee in the current division? It would be just like the Catholic Church and buying indulgences. Why pay your penance by sitting on the bench when you can literally buy your way out of a problem?

I am not part of match staff, but I would say the comp is likely good to go. Most rule sets default to USPSA or the MD's judgement if there is confusion. Look at page 92 / appendix E2 for how USPSA measures it. If the nut portion is over the barrel and does not form an expansion chamber then it is not part of the measured comp. I think the Surefire comps/suppressor mounts are over 1" in that location and I have used them with no issues in dozens of major matches across the country. https://uspsa.org/viewer/RifleShotgunMultigunRules.pdf

The PCC/2 gun Match will be 10 of the "shorter" stages. I think they are PCC friendly, but expect some spinners and smallish plates. It won't be a USPSA pistol match.

I forgot to make a topic when we posted registration as I don't seem to get on Enos as much anymore. Registration link https://practiscore.com/clubs/surefirewmg Website www.surefirewmg.com/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/SurefireWMG This is a 15 stage match with the top competitors going to stage 16 in front of a crowd during the awards ceremony. The smallest divisions shoot first and end with Tactical. After the the division shoots their final stage they will walk the prize table. I cannot stress it enough that stage 16 is mandatory for those that finish in the top "trophy" places. Failure to shoot it will zero you out and will drop your match placement. It is not just a side stage. I think everything is covered in the links posted above, but if you have questions please ask and I will try to answer them.

Added Washington State Match and Surefire WMG MARCH 17-18: Missouri 3 Gun Championship - Lead Farm 3 gun Range, Versailles MO mo3gc.com 23-25: X-Treme Bullets Texas 3 Gun Championship March 23-25, 2018 23-25: Superstition Mountain Mystery 3 Gun 2018 at Rio Salado Sportsman's Club, Mesa AZ March 23-25, 2018 APRIL 7-8: Hi-Lux PCC Championship, Rockcastle Shooting Center, KY 13-14 : The Empire Strikes Back ! ( for any one) ,Canada,England,NZ,South Africa v USA :$25000 Vortex prize table https://practiscore.com/3gn-uk-sups-colonial-3-gun-match/register 20-22: Vortex Shooters Source 3 Gun – Triple C Range – Cresson, Texas Web-http://northtexasmultigun.com/vortex-shooters-source-3-gun/ Enos Thread - http://forums.brianenos.com/topic/254673-2018-vortex-shooters-source-3-gun/ 18-22: USPSA Multigun Nationals, Pro Gun Club, NV 27-29: JP ENTERPRISE PCC Championship will be April 27th- 29th at Silver Creek Conservation Club. Sellersburg, IN It will be a level 2 USPSA PCC only. 28-29: Southern Illinois PCC championship Newman's Gun Club 5704 Valier Lake Road Sesser, IL 62884 website soon NGC Action Shooting on FB 28-29: 2018 California Action Shotgun Challenge - Richmond Hotshots range - Richmond Rod & Gun Club, 3155 Goodrick Ave, Richmond, CA Registration via Practiscore HERE MAY 5-6: Gadsden Shotgun Championship, MO 5-6: 2018 3GN Ohio State Championship Match May 5-6, 2018 8 Stage Match Prize table + cash payout $150 Covington, OH 18-20: Babes with Bullets 3 Gun Challenge, Shootout Lane, LA 19: Lead Farm 3 Man 3Gun - Lead Farm 3 Gun Range, Versailles MO - May 19 Cash payout to top 10% Basic rules here mo3gc.com will be tweaked to fit the 3 man format. 19-20: He-Man 3-Gun Nationals - NRA Whittington Center Raton, NM - May 19-20, 2018 http://heman3gun.webs.com/ 19-20: 3GN Regional – May 19-20 - Blakely, GA Arena Training Center http://memberships.3gunnation.com/Events/Details/31117 JUNE 7-10: Safariland Expedition Multigun, Las Vegas NV safarilandexpedition.com/ 8-10: 2018 High Desert Multigun Championship - Parma, ID - Parma Rod & Gun Club - June 8-10, 2018 9th-10th Mid-Atlantic, York PA 22-24: Nordic Vortex Tri-Gun - Forest Lake Sportsmen's Club, MN - June 22-24, 2018 http://nordicvortextrigun.com/ 23-24: 2018 Bay Area Rifle Championship- Richmond Hotshots range - Richmond Rod & Gun Club, 3155 Goodrick Ave, Richmond, CA Registration via Practiscore HERE 30-1: Nightforce 2-Rifle Match - NRA Whittington Center Raton, NM - Tentative Date June 30-July 1, 2018 http://johnson3gun.webs.com/ JULY 14-15 Trijicon, Inc. Trijicon 3 Man 3 Gun Championship, Topton Fish & Game Association, PA 20-22 Northwest Multigun Challenge - Bend, OR - COSSA Shooting Range REGISTER AUGUST 3-5 : The Wyoming Governor's Match built by SMD - UML Rule 2 Gun and 3 Gun Division INFO HERE 4: Washington State UML Championship, Ephrata, WA practiscore.com/desert-heat-3-gun/register 9-12: JP Rocky Mountain 3-Gun - NRA Whittington Center Raton, NM - August 9 - 12, 2018 http://rm3g.com/ ? Rockcastle Pro-Am SEPTEMBER 7th-9th Generation III Gun 15-16: Fort Sill Multi Gun Championship 15-16 September 2018 Fort Sill Army Base, Oklahoma! 15-16: 3GN Regional – September 15-16– Forest Lake, MN - Forest Lake Sportsmen's Club http://memberships.3gunnation.com/Events/Details/31123 OCTOBER 5-7: Surefire World Multigun Championship, Las Vegas NV, surefirewmg.com 18-20: Blue Ridge Mountain 3 Gun Championship, Rockcastle Shooting Center,KY NOVEMBER 9-11: 3GN Nationals Regional – November 9-11 – Clinton, SC – Clinton House Plantation Nov 15-18 Fort Benning Multi-Gun Challenge

No worries. It is easy to get caught up on the interwebs. I like shooting open too, generally the easiest division to remain compliant with the rules.

It isn't, and that is why the name changed for UML.