Any advantage to Production over Limited?

[rpd]

Initially it doesn't matter as you won't be competitive regardless of equipment, but at some point you will want to compare your scores with others without the concern of an equipment gap. Production offers you the cheapest way to be competitive with the equipment you already have.

Beside that, shooting 9mm means you'll be able to put more rounds down range for the same cost and that will make you truly competitive.

[mjts]

There are a lot of good reasons for starting in production. With the lower magazine capacity and minor scoring, you need to focus on visual patience, accuracy, and shooting well from set positions. After switching to limited and with the higher capacity magazines, I'm now working on moving through the shooting positions rather than stopping to engage each array. I don't think that I would have developed any visual patience if I started shooting limited.

Mike

[Seeker]

Since you have all the necessary equipment (many mags and pouches) to shoot production, then I would say that production would provide several benefits from the get go. Reloads: Think of high cap magazines 17-22 round magazines as a car with an automatic transmission and 8-10 round magazines as like a car with as manual transmission. having the ability to break down the stage and perform mag changes while moving to the next position is a skill that would not be acquired if you start shooting limited (hi-cap). However, if you can drive a stick shift you can drive anything, If you are limited to an automatic transmission then your driving options are limited. Also as mentioned by many of the others, minor scoring in limited class puts the shooter at a disadvantage against the majority of the limited class shooters. In Production you have a competitive gun on a level playing field since all production shooters are scored minor.

[98sr20ve]

Cheaper ammo, more competitive equipment right out of the gate.

I should have posted this as well. I am planning on shooting my XDm 5.25 in 9mm. Already have the rig and mags. it seems to be able to load even the factory mags to capacity and still shoot reloaded 9's is a no brainer. I'm sure at some point I'll be building an open pistol but not at this time.

Never understood why you would go to Limited over Production. You have the perfect production gun. Shoot it in production. Limited has a more expensive buy in to get truly competitive equipment. Your already at that point in production.

[BobS761]

I shot my first match in Limited. Loaded up the mags, hosed away, and had a great time. But after the first stage, I discovered I still need to plan a little, and change mags at least once. From that I learned, I really enjoyed the planning and mag changes, so next match was Production for me. I'm no expert, as my third match is Saturday, but my goal is to learn and have a good, safe time. It really doesn't matter which class I'm in competiton wise, as I'm sure to be at the bottom of the food chain for quite a while. I am the foundation stone on which the "support class" is built!

I think it is more important just to get out and shoot, learn to be safe, steal all the best shooters techniques, and have a good time doing it!

B

[MarkCO]

The reason you get a split answer is we are all different. There are 6 divisions and a plethora of choices of equipment in most.

My recomendation would be to shoot Limited minor for the first few matches and then once you have attained some level of comfort, try Production. I shot Limited for years with a Glock, never understood why anyone would shoot Lim10, or Production. Now I am in Production and I really like it. To some degree is suits me better than Limited. I'll go back to Limited at some point, maybe after a year in Production and a year in Single Stack.

Get some basepads for the XD and shoot 23 to 24 rounds Limited minor and you will also have a very good pistol for 3 Gun. It is all about Options and what fits your personal tastes.

[Shadow1]

The reason you get a split answer is we are all different. There are 6 divisions and a plethora of choices of equipment in most.

That's pretty much what I'm finding out. I went with production for now but I can see limited in my not so distant future. I also shot a steel challenge last weekend and that was a blast, but I used my production gun and I think it would have been more enjoyable with a little plinker .22. How sad...looks like more guns in my future. Thanks for the input!

[theycallmeingot]

The reason you get a split answer is we are all different. There are 6 divisions and a plethora of choices of equipment in most.

That's pretty much what I'm finding out. I went with production for now but I can see limited in my not so distant future. I also shot a steel challenge last weekend and that was a blast, but I used my production gun and I think it would have been more enjoyable with a little plinker .22. How sad...looks like more guns in my future. Thanks for the input!

i sort of had the opposite experience. i shot my first steel challenge match the other day with my "race" mark III 22/45, and watched everyone else shoot it with their production guns. almost looked more fun. but the whole reason i even shot steel challenge was because it would cost so little with a 22.

[Shadow1]

The reason you get a split answer is we are all different. There are 6 divisions and a plethora of choices of equipment in most.

That's pretty much what I'm finding out. I went with production for now but I can see limited in my not so distant future. I also shot a steel challenge last weekend and that was a blast, but I used my production gun and I think it would have been more enjoyable with a little plinker .22. How sad...looks like more guns in my future. Thanks for the input!

i sort of had the opposite experience. i shot my first steel challenge match the other day with my "race" mark III 22/45, and watched everyone else shoot it with their production guns. almost looked more fun. but the whole reason i even shot steel challenge was because it would cost so little with a 22.

Price is a major factor, shooting matches every weekend isn't making the Mrs. very happy. It was pretty funny while I was shooting my 9mm with a lower power factor that factory, most of the other shooters were shooting .22 and thought I was using a canon because of the difference. Still fun, I'll shoot steel for practice ans fun and USPSA for score (eventually)

[waynes_world_45]

I think it's a good plan for a new shooter to shoot a gun like the XDm with mags loaded to full capacity in Limited. You can focus on other aspects of the game like movement and muzzle control first before worrying about stage strategy associated with low cap divisions.

After you have a few matches under your belt, you will most likely want to transition to Production where your XDm in 9mm would be more competitive. (i.e., not shooting against guys with their custom guns specially built for Limited Division)

This is what I suggest to brand new competitors as well....then either get a XDM 40, a STI 40 and stay in limited, or keep your 9mm and move to production....Limited Minor is just too penalized

Edited June 15, 2012 by waynes_world_45

[Recoil45]

To echo another post, for a new shooter it doesn't matter for the first few dozen matches. The most import thing is to shoot and build your basic match skills. After a shooing a few matches with that focus you will probably figure out what class you want to be in.

[MC1]

Production forces accuracy. I started limited and developed a speed fetish. Went to production and learned to hit something.

[Nimitz]

Not sure I understand why you think there is a progression between divisions? It's a little like saying I think I'll start out smoking weed so that eventually I can move up to LSD and then coke ... Lots of pros and cons for each division so pick one where it has more pros than cons for you and stick with it ... Once you make master it will be time to think about trying another division ... Just my 2cents ...

[Alaskapopo]

I'm just getting into competative shooting and had pretty well decided to start with production. ErichF gave me some great advise and suggested starting with limited instead. After reading up, I can't see any reason not to start with limited. Any input???

It depends on who you have to shoot with. We don't have many production shooters where I am and the overall score is all most people look at so I would rather shoot limited in your shoes up here. But if there were more production shooters where your at then shoot that.

Pat

[GMB]

There are valid arguments either way. I would say to ask some the more experienced that you shoot with. They are able to see how you are doing and will be able to give you insight as to where you are weakest. Production will be good to reinforce reloads and stage planning. As far as accuracy goes you need to shoot A's whatever division IMO.

[Torogi]

I would shoot production too with your current set-up.

cheaper & everybody is scored minor. don't even think about the 10-round/mag limit. It doesn't matter, because in general in one shooting position you only have total of 8 shots, or if the designers are being nice to the wheelgunners, 6 shots.

Just practice your reload. You'll be fine.

[mattwaage]

Noone at my club shoots production.

Or the 15 people shooting limited 3 or 4 have genuine limited gun, everyone else is shooting a production gun in 9, 40, or 45. The 10 round restriction just isnt fun to them. I think if we went to a 15rd like ipsc we would have more production shooters.

Either way...

My girlfriend started shooting with me this year with my glock 34. I had her shoot limited simply because she was not up to the level of being able to count her rounds and make her shots count. And she would still run the 34 dry occasionally (See texas star).

Having to reload so frequently takes concentration off accuracy, speed, stage planning. Once she started to get these things down adding another reload in anywhere is a no brainer.

To the OP your XDM 9 is a very competetive production gun. Not so much in limited due to minor. Not saying it cant be, but thats up to you to hit only A's. In the end I would probably shoot limited with it, having only 10rds is just not much fun to me...

[NicVerAZ]

To truly be competitive in Limited you need to shoot major and purchase gear which may prove expensive for the beginning competitor. Once it is an important hobby of yours, then it becomes awkwardly more affordable.

You can start shooting Limited without said equipment but you will have little chance of getting off the bottom of the list.

Production is all scored minor and you can start with the gun out of the box. You will need to buy a few more magazine pouches, at least 4 or 5, as you can start with one in the pocket.

Since Production allows no upgrade except for grips, sights and a few minor internal fixes, you can do it on a small budget.

Considering my post-divorce budget (which includes spousal support for 2 more years), Production is very friendly to me. I can do 4 practices, 2 IDPA, 2 USPSA and 2 steel matches for less than $200 a month. I bring my own lunch

Edited December 14, 2012 by NicVerAZ

[MattYvip]

Not trying to stir the pot or hijak the thread but...

If you can be competitive in production you'll be competitive in limited or limited 10 (you just have to shoot A's and as we all know thats what we need to do regardless of powerfactor). I'll point out Bob Vogel as an example. He's kick butt with a Glock in production, L10 and Limited. I'm sure they're modified and I know were all not Bob Vogel, but it's the indian not the arrow. Though I do conceed great arrows will help a lot.

Limited/L10 minor would hurt a bit but would put more of a focus on shooting A's. And for your first few matches Saftey and getting good hits should be your major concern. Just my $ 00.02.

[phearkno1]

I would recommend shooting limited your first match or two just so you can apply more focus to safety, shooting, and moving, without having to reload as much. Once you get comfortable then move to production and deal with more reloading. Production is where most mortals belong with your current setup.

[JimmyZip]

I too would recommend shooting limited, and I LOVE production. When I started out in this sport I shot a Browning HiPower and with 14round capacity, it didn't really belong in this game. But I had an amazing time just the same and placed well as all I was thinking about was shooting As, and having a good time. Then as I shot more matches, I decided that I wanted to shoot Limited all the time and be competitive. I bought a CZ TS and started shooting limited, but I also came across a G17 here on the forums, and decided to buy it for my sister who said she wanted to get into shooting. Well she didn't and I just fell in love with the gun. I shoot it better than all of my other guns, and I have fun with my reloads.

I just sold my TS and am buying a G34. Am I happy I went the route that I did? Hell yes! I managed to have fun finding the division I like. I sold my gun and mags for almost as much as I paid, and am deciding to stay production.

Reloads aren't that big a deal really. That and draws are some of the first things you need to iron out in dry fire early in your shooting career. You will see as time passes that draws are not as important as they once were because most stage designers rarely have you drawing to a target on the buzzer. Yet reloads are still important as ever.

Have fun whatever you choose.

JZ

[giarc01]

Production make you think a lot more and plan ahead. I think production trains you to be a better shooter and make your shots worth it. I think that new shooters should start in limited so that they have less to think about. After you get a feel of it then go to production to become a better shooter. If you like to change mags 4 or 5 times a stage then you can stay in limited 10 and have the same feeling of production with the option to shoot a full mag in limited when you want to.

[mikeg1005]

Production make you think a lot more and plan ahead. I think production trains you to be a better shooter and make your shots worth it. I think that new shooters should start in limited so that they have less to think about.

Well that depends how you look at it, if your expectations for a new shooter is just to shoot things as they seem them, and reload when they run dry, then ya, limited is easier. That approach though is wrong, becuase once you get a feel for everything, you are going to start wanting to get competitive, and in my opinion(limited and SS shooter) limited is more challenging to be competitve than single stack from a thinking standpoint.

Single stack and production your game plan(and everyone elses) revolves around 8 or 10 rounds. I think its easier, becuase you analyze 8-10 shots at one time and minimize reloading. If you are accurate and get reloads down you will do well. Instead of breaking it down into 4-5 target arrays, you now have to take an entire stage, and treat it as 1, maybe 2 arrays(since you have upwards of 21-22 rds per mag). That gives everyone a lot of options, every aspect of course planning becomes more important than it does in the capacity limited divisions.

Mike.

Edited January 2, 2013 by mikeg1005

[Poppa Bear]

They all have their positives and negatives. It really comes down to what makes you comfortable, and the equipment you brought. If you are a new shooter who has enough on their plate already, start in Limited until you start to get a handle on the game. You do not have to worry about capacity. You do not have to worry about equipment location. You do not have to worry about running dry because you only have 4 mags for your gun.

Already got a good handle on the game and gun handling? Already spent some time getting the equipment located properly, and have at least 6 mags and 4 pouches? You are ready to start off in Production.

Your choice of gun can also make a big difference. Want to shoot a Glock? We can provide you with dozens of extra mags and pouches. Want to shoot SS? We can provide you with dozens of extra mags and pouches. Want to shoot an XD we can provide some extra mags and pouches. Want to shoot a CZ or a Beretta? If you do not bring it with you, you are SOL because you might be the only one.

We have had shooters show up wanting to shoot SS but they did not have a good holster. We could not provide one because their gun had rails. We provided both the gun and the holster just to get them through the match.

We have one shooter who uses a cheap nylon holster because he cannot find a decent holster. He shoots a 96A1 with rails so he has a very limited choice on holsters.

Your comfort with the game and the equipment you have will have a big effect on which division you start in and why.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Poppa Bear

[Kali]

I look at Production vs Limited like SCCA Racing Car Classifications. Most people get started in Showroom Stock or Production. With some safety modifications you can race a street car that anyone can buy. Its affordable and usually you race against other new people getting into the sport. Its the entry level Division. Touring/Formula is more like Limited Division. Cost of admission is higher just to be in the race. A new driver probably could race a honda civic (Production) against custom built race cars (Limited) but you're going to loose and probably get frustrated coming in last all the time.

I started in IDPA and Production and made master. I took time to build up my skill and resources and now I'm shooting Limited for the first time this year. It was a natural progression for me. I'm guessing that I will progress faster in Limited than I did in Production because I was able to learn the game at a lower cost against good competition in Production.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Kali