martyg00 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I got the first one and the second and sent them back in shortly after getting them. I did too but I'm curious if anyone else got an $18.00 ballot...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I got the first one and the second and sent them back in shortly after getting them. I did too but I'm curious if anyone else got an $18.00 ballot...... Dave Thomas posted the following on www.uspsa.org today: Ballot IssuesWe recently became aware of a problem with the current runoff election when some of our life members complained that they had not received ballots. Working through the accountants we discovered that 63 eligible USPSA members failed to receive ballots. That discovery came on the 17th day of November. The bylaws state that ballots must be received by the accountants no later than December 1st to be eligible to be counted. To deal with this dilemma, and to correct their error, the mailing house agreed to send those previously unsent ballots via overnight delivery at their expense to the affected members. We have been informed that those ballots went out on November 18, 2011. Please note that these are NOT replacement ballots which are prohibited by the USPSA bylaws. These are ballots that should have been sent earlier but were not. The board of directors is schedule to address this issue during their December 3-4, 2011 meeting in Dallas. Watch for the online minutes for results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hello: Sounds like the "Hanging Chad" is back Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hello: Sounds like the "Hanging Chad" is back Thanks, Eric What does 3Gun Nation have to do with voting for the USPSA president? Oh, that "Chad"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf219 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Our democratic process of voting for officials in government is not done by an outside organization. The election board is governed by state and federal law. Ultimately someone on that election board, which was hired by an elected official, has to count the votes. This system is used nation wide, of course there are faults in just about any method. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Let's hope that everything that legitimately can be done is being done. Don't forget to VOTE...if you have a ballot, anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Still no runoff ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlands Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Overseas voting will probably be impossible, no ballot here yet. No real way to make sure it's back in time for the deadline either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 IS there not a way to vote online and it be legitimate? Would there not be a way to hire an outside part to do an online vote that would still be secret to the home office and not allow the ballot box to be stuffed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 So whats the tie-breaker? Shooting Smoke and Hope ? JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 IS there not a way to vote online and it be legitimate? Would there not be a way to hire an outside part to do an online vote that would still be secret to the home office and not allow the ballot box to be stuffed? Rob Boudrie is investigating that and it's on the agenda for the BOD meeting in a week and a half. The last time it was looked into it was prohibitively expensive, as Rob has posted on numerous occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I will not bore this list with the details, but I will be presenting a full report to the board. I am actually a bit more optimistic this time around. IS there not a way to vote online and it be legitimate? Would there not be a way to hire an outside part to do an online vote that would still be secret to the home office and not allow the ballot box to be stuffed? Yes, there is. These requirements preclude "shortcuts" and I haven't found a good way around having an election firm do a first class mailing to all voters with the access code. I don't really mind the expense of sending out notices to each member, since "member elected representation" is a cornerstone that differentiates USPSA from several other competitive shooting organizations that don't have enough faith in their membership to allow anyone not on the board to vote. The last time I investigated, I dealt with a company that was set up on the "commissioned salesperson" model, which *really* showed in how they dealt with me. I never could get a price - just loads of salesmanship. I've been talking to another company - the contact title is "managing partner" - not "sales rep"; I had firm pricing numbers one day after initial contact; and he seems more interested in an ongoing relationship than Zig Ziglar techniques to maximize a salescritter's cut of the action for closing the deal. He also had all the right answers to my logistical/technical questions. A real benefit of using a professional election firm is that this is what they do - it's not matter of having an org that is not expert in elections (USPSA) work with a CPA firm that specialized in accounting more than elections, which in turn works with a mailing house that is not used to customized election mailings. One stop, one accountable party, one solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enutees Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I didn't receive a ballot either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I will not bore this list with the details, but I will be presenting a full report to the board. I am actually a bit more optimistic this time around. IS there not a way to vote online and it be legitimate? Would there not be a way to hire an outside part to do an online vote that would still be secret to the home office and not allow the ballot box to be stuffed? Yes, there is. These requirements preclude "shortcuts" and I haven't found a good way around having an election firm do a first class mailing to all voters with the access code. I don't really mind the expense of sending out notices to each member, since "member elected representation" is a cornerstone that differentiates USPSA from several other competitive shooting organizations that don't have enough faith in their membership to allow anyone not on the board to vote. The last time I investigated, I dealt with a company that was set up on the "commissioned salesperson" model, which *really* showed in how they dealt with me. I never could get a price - just loads of salesmanship. I've been talking to another company - the contact title is "managing partner" - not "sales rep"; I had firm pricing numbers one day after initial contact; and he seems more interested in an ongoing relationship than Zig Ziglar techniques to maximize a salescritter's cut of the action for closing the deal. He also had all the right answers to my logistical/technical questions. A real benefit of using a professional election firm is that this is what they do - it's not matter of having an org that is not expert in elections (USPSA) work with a CPA firm that specialized in accounting more than elections, which in turn works with a mailing house that is not used to customized election mailings. One stop, one accountable party, one solution. That's encouraging. Thanks, Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin garcia Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I got the first one and the second and sent them back in shortly after getting them. I did too but I'm curious if anyone else got an $18.00 ballot...... Dave Thomas posted the following on www.uspsa.org today: Ballot IssuesWe recently became aware of a problem with the current runoff election when some of our life members complained that they had not received ballots. Working through the accountants we discovered that 63 eligible USPSA members failed to receive ballots. That discovery came on the 17th day of November. The bylaws state that ballots must be received by the accountants no later than December 1st to be eligible to be counted. To deal with this dilemma, and to correct their error, the mailing house agreed to send those previously unsent ballots via overnight delivery at their expense to the affected members. We have been informed that those ballots went out on November 18, 2011. Please note that these are NOT replacement ballots which are prohibited by the USPSA bylaws. These are ballots that should have been sent earlier but were not. The board of directors is schedule to address this issue during their December 3-4, 2011 meeting in Dallas. Watch for the online minutes for results. Have NOT received mine to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I will not bore this list with the details, but I will be presenting a full report to the board. I am actually a bit more optimistic this time around. IS there not a way to vote online and it be legitimate? Would there not be a way to hire an outside part to do an online vote that would still be secret to the home office and not allow the ballot box to be stuffed? Yes, there is. These requirements preclude "shortcuts" and I haven't found a good way around having an election firm do a first class mailing to all voters with the access code. I don't really mind the expense of sending out notices to each member, since "member elected representation" is a cornerstone that differentiates USPSA from several other competitive shooting organizations that don't have enough faith in their membership to allow anyone not on the board to vote. The last time I investigated, I dealt with a company that was set up on the "commissioned salesperson" model, which *really* showed in how they dealt with me. I never could get a price - just loads of salesmanship. I've been talking to another company - the contact title is "managing partner" - not "sales rep"; I had firm pricing numbers one day after initial contact; and he seems more interested in an ongoing relationship than Zig Ziglar techniques to maximize a salescritter's cut of the action for closing the deal. He also had all the right answers to my logistical/technical questions. A real benefit of using a professional election firm is that this is what they do - it's not matter of having an org that is not expert in elections (USPSA) work with a CPA firm that specialized in accounting more than elections, which in turn works with a mailing house that is not used to customized election mailings. One stop, one accountable party, one solution. Now if we could only find a firm that could actually send ballots to all the members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I will not bore this list with the details, but I will be presenting a full report to the board. I am actually a bit more optimistic this time around. IS there not a way to vote online and it be legitimate? Would there not be a way to hire an outside part to do an online vote that would still be secret to the home office and not allow the ballot box to be stuffed? Yes, there is. These requirements preclude "shortcuts" and I haven't found a good way around having an election firm do a first class mailing to all voters with the access code. I don't really mind the expense of sending out notices to each member, since "member elected representation" is a cornerstone that differentiates USPSA from several other competitive shooting organizations that don't have enough faith in their membership to allow anyone not on the board to vote. The last time I investigated, I dealt with a company that was set up on the "commissioned salesperson" model, which *really* showed in how they dealt with me. I never could get a price - just loads of salesmanship. I've been talking to another company - the contact title is "managing partner" - not "sales rep"; I had firm pricing numbers one day after initial contact; and he seems more interested in an ongoing relationship than Zig Ziglar techniques to maximize a salescritter's cut of the action for closing the deal. He also had all the right answers to my logistical/technical questions. A real benefit of using a professional election firm is that this is what they do - it's not matter of having an org that is not expert in elections (USPSA) work with a CPA firm that specialized in accounting more than elections, which in turn works with a mailing house that is not used to customized election mailings. One stop, one accountable party, one solution. That's encouraging. Thanks, Rob. +1 Hopefully it works out. I like the fact that USPSA is an organziation that is run by the consent of the governed. But if costs can be reduced so much the better. The rate of voting tells us that many people don't care, which is too bad. I have been trying to encourage the people at my club to vote all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 IS there not a way to vote online and it be legitimate? Would there not be a way to hire an outside part to do an online vote that would still be secret to the home office and not allow the ballot box to be stuffed? This sounds like a job for a Tiger Team. Oh wait...nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Now if we could only find a firm that could actually send ballots to all the members. This is one of the reasons I am recommending a professional election firm. This is what they do, and only what they do - so they should be pretty good at it. It also would mean "single vendor accountability". With the current situation, it's a three legged stool - USPSA; the CPA firm; and the mailing house. I will have my report to the board by Monday, so there will be time to read it before the upcoming meeting. +1 Hopefully it works out.I like the fact that USPSA is an organziation that is run by the consent of the governed. But if costs can be reduced so much the better. The rate of voting tells us that many people don't care, which is too bad. I have been trying to encourage the people at my club to vote all season. I could reduce the cost to zero using in-house on-line voting, however, some things are worth paying for even when you can get them for free. This is one of them. A 30% return rate is not that bad when you consider that many members are not that active, and that only about 50% of our membership (as measured by headcount) has fired a recorded classifier in the past year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 We are a Corporation with a huge area to cover and many diverse participants. I think it is necessary, and owed to the membership, to have any Elections done for the controlloing officers by an entity removed from the parent organization. We have enough issues to deal with, both as members and officers, and I feel the integrity of the election process should not ever be a question. When I was an SC, about 2 decades ago, we had a contested Area Election that got pretty hot. The other SC's were going to protest the results and the defeated AD, whom I liked, called me and asked my views. I was the lone hold out and the move was nixed, the defeated candidate was surprised as everyone knew I didn't like the winner much. But, I was admanant that the process was fair and we may not like the results but that's what we would have. Things worked out and I was confident that the process was done correctly and above reproach. I think, despite my chosen candidates not always winning, we as a group have been blessed with good, solid officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I think it is necessary, and owed to the membership, to have any Elections done for the controlloing officers by an entity removed from the parent organization. I have not heard any USPSA staff member, officer or board member advocate anything other than this approach. My position is that I will vote against any election procedure I could rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Harrington Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What can/will be done about some of the members not receiving ballots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I like the fact that USPSA is an organziation that is run by the consent of the governed. Nice philosophy, but rarely happens in fact. Just because a person is elected to an office by "the people", that doesn't mean the person will do what "the people" want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I like the fact that USPSA is an organziation that is run by the consent of the governed. Nice philosophy, but rarely happens in fact. Just because a person is elected to an office by "the people", that doesn't mean the person will do what "the people" want. Absolutely true, but I think USPSA does a better job that most of keeping the election process open to the membership. Our elections are outsourced, so you don't have to take anyone's word that the ballots are counted fairly. Anyone can petition to get on the ballot - I know of some professional organizations where people "apply" for a slot on the ballot and don't get on unless a committee decides to let them run. USPSA does not tell members how to vote. While candidates can run their own ads, you don't see the entrenched leadership promoting a "winning team"; telling people how to vote; or adding ballot designation to tell voters who the "approved candidates" are. (some orgs have the concept of "endorsed by the nominating committee". We don't have any "incumbent protection policies" in place. The only differences are incumbents don't need to gather signatures to be on the ballot, and are labeled as "incumbent". We have runoff elections, which means that a particularly bad director won't stay in office just because a whole bunch of people ran against him/her and split an "anti-incumbent" sentiment. If there is anything more we can do to keep the process open, please let the directors and president know. rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I still haven't received my run-off ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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