ajg308 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Kind of disapointing only 28% / 30% voting. It is sad. I know I have done about all I can to push and beg people to vote in the past two elections. I would almost like to know the voting by section and thus the associated participation rates. I know Rob Boudrie mentioned something about this in a completely separate post - but has USPSA put forth any real effort to look at online voting? I know if corporations can do Proxy Votes online, there has to be an acceptable level of assurance available to us for our voting......assuming the costs for such a service isn't beyond ridiculous that is. Speaking of cost, those ballots, envelopes, and stamps are expensive! I vote for an online system so we can use the money for something shooting related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Speaking of cost, those ballots, envelopes, and stamps are expensive! I vote for an online system so we can use the money for something shooting related. IIRC, Rob talked with several companies that do online voting, and no one would beat the cost of the current CPA firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 By the bylaws, members are supposed to have runoff ballots for all applicable elections by Nov 1st, and must be filled out and returned by Dec 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Kind of disapointing only 28% / 30% voting. 18,197 members 5,501 members voted (30%) 12,696 did not vote (70%) Wonder how many of those NON-VOTING members actually participated in any USPSA event in the past 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Kind of disapointing only 28% / 30% voting. It is sad. I know I have done about all I can to push and beg people to vote in the past two elections. I would almost like to know the voting by section and thus the associated participation rates. I know Rob Boudrie mentioned something about this in a completely separate post - but has USPSA put forth any real effort to look at online voting? I know if corporations can do Proxy Votes online, there has to be an acceptable level of assurance available to us for our voting......assuming the costs for such a service isn't beyond ridiculous that is. Speaking of cost, those ballots, envelopes, and stamps are expensive! I vote for an online system so we can use the money for something shooting related. Or more x-mas cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I want to know how 18 people managed to mess up a ballot that only had like 4 boxes on it I don't know, but we will probably have to change the rules because of it LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Kind of disapointing only 28% / 30% voting. It is sad. I know I have done about all I can to push and beg people to vote in the past two elections. I would almost like to know the voting by section and thus the associated participation rates. I know Rob Boudrie mentioned something about this in a completely separate post - but has USPSA put forth any real effort to look at online voting? I know if corporations can do Proxy Votes online, there has to be an acceptable level of assurance available to us for our voting......assuming the costs for such a service isn't beyond ridiculous that is. Speaking of cost, those ballots, envelopes, and stamps are expensive! I vote for an online system so we can use the money for something shooting related. Or more x-mas cards LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 18,197 members That's a much higher number than what I had imagined. Does this figure represent only currently active members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Kind of disapointing only 28% / 30% voting. 18,197 members 5,501 members voted (30%) 12,696 did not vote (70%) Wonder how many of those NON-VOTING members actually participated in any USPSA event in the past 12 months. That's what I was thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Speaking of cost, those ballots, envelopes, and stamps are expensive! I vote for an online system so we can use the money for something shooting related. IIRC, Rob talked with several companies that do online voting, and no one would beat the cost of the current CPA firm. It would only be icing on the cake if they could beat the cost of the CPA firm we use now, but if the cost was in line with what we pay now, wouldn't it be nice to make voting so much simpler / easier that 50% of our membership voted? Seeing how America is quickly becoming more and more, a digital society, even as we speak ..... Personally, I think it would only increase our response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 It would only be icing on the cake if they could beat the cost of the CPA firm we use now, but if the cost was in line with what we pay now, wouldn't it be nice to make voting so much simpler / easier that 50% of our membership voted? Seeing how America is quickly becoming more and more, a digital society, even as we speak ..... Personally, I think it would only increase our response. I don't believe that would be to our benefit. Do you really want to dilute your vote by enabling those who are too lazy to mark a couple of X's on a ballot and drop it in their mailbox? Personally I feel if members can't take the trouble to spend 2 minutes filling out the ballot, putting it in the envelope and dropping it in their mailbox, they shouldn't have a voice in how the organization is run, nor should their complaints be heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Look at the way National elections are held. We now have early voting, no ID, just show up and claim you are Mr. X and vote. We still only get about 1/3 participation. If we were to make voting easier all we'd get is a few more people that had no knowledge of the candidates and voted purely on name recognition or on incumbency. No, I say, leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titandriver Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Wonder what percent of the 5500 that voted are, at minimum, RO's? I'm with Jim, don't really want those without a clue, or without participating in matches, to have a voice about our officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 It would only be icing on the cake if they could beat the cost of the CPA firm we use now, but if the cost was in line with what we pay now, wouldn't it be nice to make voting so much simpler / easier that 50% of our membership voted? On the other hand, if someone can't be bothered to check a box on a 1 page ballot and mail it in, maybe they're not interested, informed,or involved enough to be part of the decision.Another way to view it is that the people who didn't turn in the ballot are simply entrusting the decision to those of us who did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 IIRC, Rob talked with several companies that do online voting, and no one would beat the cost of the current CPA firm. I spoke to one company - Election Corporation of America on two occasions, separated by a couple of years. The firm represented the worst stereotype of the coin operated salesman. On the first occasion, the salesman held firm that they would only do a multi-year contract. I asked if he had enough confidence that he willing to quote one year with a renewal option, and the response was doublespeak for "we have a great product, but my commission is based on how big a contract I get signed". On the second occasion, a very polite salesman was giving me a lot of attention and follow up. I sent him details on the USPSA cost structure, and told him I was interested in presenting a proposal to the USPSA BOD, but any proposal that started with "it will cost you more but...." was dead on arrival, and that I would appreciate the courtesy of a response if this put us outside the price range ECA would charge. I never received a response - not even the courtesy of a one line "Sorry, not a match here" email. We have about 20K members. The closest I could get ECA to quote was "about $1 per member" (not "per voter - there are some expenses in the current election "per member" (mailing) and some "per voter" (tabulation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 It would only be icing on the cake if they could beat the cost of the CPA firm we use now, but if the cost was in line with what we pay now, wouldn't it be nice to make voting so much simpler / easier that 50% of our membership voted? Seeing how America is quickly becoming more and more, a digital society, even as we speak ..... Personally, I think it would only increase our response. I don't believe that would be to our benefit. Do you really want to dilute your vote by enabling those who are too lazy to mark a couple of X's on a ballot and drop it in their mailbox? Personally I feel if members can't take the trouble to spend 2 minutes filling out the ballot, putting it in the envelope and dropping it in their mailbox, they shouldn't have a voice in how the organization is run, nor should their complaints be heard. Took me more than 2 hours to get mine mailed off. I still suggest go up on my dues 25 cents and send postage paid envelopes. I think you can get a discount or something when mailing bulk with the "no postage nessacery" envelopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Another way to look at it: Do we really want those members who are not involved at all, not interested, unaware of the candidates or their concerns, etc. polluting the process? Chances are those of us that voted are the ones that any of this means anything to. I can see nearly 15000 people just checking the boxes like the GOV in blazing saddles. Work, Work, Work, HELLO BOYS! Sorry for the drift but I think you see my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 It would only be icing on the cake if they could beat the cost of the CPA firm we use now, but if the cost was in line with what we pay now, wouldn't it be nice to make voting so much simpler / easier that 50% of our membership voted? Seeing how America is quickly becoming more and more, a digital society, even as we speak ..... Personally, I think it would only increase our response. I don't believe that would be to our benefit. Do you really want to dilute your vote by enabling those who are too lazy to mark a couple of X's on a ballot and drop it in their mailbox? Personally I feel if members can't take the trouble to spend 2 minutes filling out the ballot, putting it in the envelope and dropping it in their mailbox, they shouldn't have a voice in how the organization is run, nor should their complaints be heard. Took me more than 2 hours to get mine mailed off. I still suggest go up on my dues 25 cents and send postage paid envelopes. I think you can get a discount or something when mailing bulk with the "no postage nessacery" envelopes. I agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Kind of disapointing only 28% / 30% voting. 18,197 members 5,501 members voted (30%) 12,696 did not vote (70%) Wonder how many of those NON-VOTING members actually participated in any USPSA event in the past 12 months. I got back into shooting this year after a few years off. By "off" I mean shooting 1 match a year at my home club, just to keep the rust off. The last Presidential election ballot didn't get sent in. I had no opinion and really wasn't following along either online or with the Front Sight. I voted this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Guys/Gals, think about it a bit. At the local club level how many of the participants shoot other than that monthly match ? (my guess, 30% or less) so how do you hope for more than 30 % participation in voting with people who don't care who is the president of the National club ? (Area directors too). All these people want to do is shoot their local monthly match and go on to what ever else they have to do. When you get to sectionals, areas and National matches the number is WAY higher as to who and how many would vote. Oh and If you did vote for me (Sam Keen) for President. Thank You and vote again (Cant say for whom as it will get blasted) Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I'm really not surprised. In our country's 2008 rather contentious Presidential election we had a turnout of only 56%. People simply don't vote. Lots of theories why, and I'm not sure if it is a good thing or a bad thing, but the facts are that only a small percentage of people will vote in any election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moverfive Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 It would only be icing on the cake if they could beat the cost of the CPA firm we use now, but if the cost was in line with what we pay now, wouldn't it be nice to make voting so much simpler / easier that 50% of our membership voted? Seeing how America is quickly becoming more and more, a digital society, even as we speak ..... Personally, I think it would only increase our response. That is more of what I was thinking.....granted we would still require a 3rd party to do all of the verification (thus all of the collection of votes). However, where my question therefore is going - I would be somewhat surprised if there wasn't a "digital" means that could be used to collect the votes in a secure and acceptable manner and in a price range that wasn't too prohibitive. In other words, the costs of actually mailing something to almost 19K folks and then the extra time required of the CPA firm to physically handle the 5K-6K of returned ballots.......how does that portion of the election costs compare to paying for a license/use of existing software that would allow voting online? And my other question on those lines - what level of service/security has been quoted for online voting? I cannot believe that the risk of fraud in our elections is very high; therefore, have we sought quotes with a reasonable level of risk acceptance? Not questioning anyone's statements or actions done to date - just asking if USPSA has really stepped back and looked at everything, verified the minimum requirements as to what we need (as opposed to want), and then obtained quotes and analysis on that plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfish73 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Moverfive- I agree totally. It just doesn't seem possible that mailing and counting etc.,etc.could be cheaper than digital. We have secure payments to buy stuff/pay bills online, why can't we have secure voting? Edited September 27, 2011 by pigfish73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Moverfive- I agree totally. It just doesn't seem possible that mailing and counting etc.,etc.could be cheaper than digital. We have secure payments to buy stuff/pay bills online, why can't we have secure voting? What makes electronic voting difficult is guaranteeing anonymity, but at the same time guaranteeing that person only votes once. There is also guaranteeing that the vote was casted really by that person, and not by somebody else who happens to know your USPSA number and password/pin. With secure online payments, there is the implied tracking of who paid for what. (Or read another way: I would love it if somebody anonymously paid for an open gun and I anonymously paid for a water pistol and the open gun got sent to me.) On reading the USPSA bylaws, I'm not seeing anything that says that votes need to be anonymous in Article 6. That may solve part of the problem and open the door for electronic voting. The only other issue, left though is that section 6.7 specifically says that a CPA much used, and that paper ballots in envelopes must be mailed out. We'll probably need a bylaw change for electronic voting to be allowed as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 So when will the new ballots be mailed? let's all face fats here. USPSA is not about to implement a change now. Mail me my ballot and I will fill it out and return it the day I get it. Is there going to be a place for the candidates to post their positions on the issues? I personally would like to see a 10-20 point questionnaire sent to Mike and Phil and have them answer to the membership. Not a campaign speech, but a where do I stand on... Metric Target Scholastic Steel Juniors National Dates, Locations, number of years at a location, mix Single Stack Nationals rolled into the USPSA Nationals. Open Revolver Open-10 Multi-Gun The 'RULES' Stability, Application adn Common Sense. Plans for real growth, we are pathetic! we have member numbers in the 70k range and only 18k members?! Look at SASS and IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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