Sorting Brass By Headstamp

[Sarge]

I decided to take the advice of others and sort my 9mm brass. I wanted to see if I could tighten up my extreme spread and standard deviation. It did not really provide the results I was expecting as I did not notice a DRASTIC change in my chrono readings.

After sorting several thousand pieces of brass the only conclusions I have reached are that the process is very, very, time consuming and absolutely mind numbing.

So, who does and who does not sort your brass and why or why not?

Edited May 14, 2010 by Sarge

[steel1212]

I decided to take the advice of others and sort my 9mm brass. I wanted to see if I could tighten up my extreme spread and standard deviation. It did not really provide the results I was expecting as I did not notice a DRASTIC change in my chrono readings.

After sorting several thousand pieces of brass the only conclusions I have reached are that the process is very, very, time consuming and absolutely mind numbing.

So, who does and who does not sort your brass and why or why not?

I use once fired winchester for major matches. locals get mixed range brass. When you did you sorting did you make sure they where all the same time fired? If they are 2, 3, 4 times fired the brass isn't going to have the same tension as each other. Use all once fired and try again I think you'll find that things tighten up.

[G-ManBart]

I do, but it doesn't seem to be as big an issue in some cartridges like 9mm. In .40 I saw a clear difference between Win and Starline (only two I had a lot of). I ran off a batch half with Win and half with SL and then chrono'd them. The Win batch was 41fps faster!

In 9mm I noticed that Winchester brass with the Nato marking gave higher velocities than regular Win, GFL, SL, FC and Speer brass. I haven't measure the case capacity difference, but it was pretty obvious....maybe thicker walls for the Nato cases? (trying to find the exact numbers on that in my log). R,

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I do sort my 9mm brass by headstamp sorta. All the mil spec brass goes in one bucket, Winchester and then the rest in another bucket. The mil spec brass I use for my Mech-Tech after I remove the crimp in my RL1050. The Wichester is used for big matches. The various brass is used for local matches and practice. I also am shooting major and minor 9mm and sort them as well. So far my 9mm major has been reloaded 3 times and still is working good. Thanks, Eric

[G-ManBart]

I use once fired winchester for major matches. locals get mixed range brass. When you did you sorting did you make sure they where all the same time fired? If they are 2, 3, 4 times fired the brass isn't going to have the same tension as each other. Use all once fired and try again I think you'll find that things tighten up.

That's exactly what I've found as well. New always seems to give me the lowest SD and highest velocity. Once-fired is close, but not quite as good. Multi-fired are clearly nowhere near as consistent. Neck tension is probably the primary factor at work there. I tried comparing multi-fired cases run through a standard resizing die and through a U-die, but didn't see any difference...sort of surprised me, but it could be a reflection of how the metal work hardens etc. R,

[cletus9mm]

when i first started loading i was super anal retentive about all aspects of it. i went so far as to clean the primer pockets of every pistol round before i reloaded it. the more rounds i loaded the "lazier" i got about paying attention to all the little details. i chrono'd my loads throughout becoming more lazy and did not notice any difference in es or sd. this lead to further laziness and now i don't sort headstamp. i try and spend as much time as i can shooting. even if you have some seriously nasty es and ed i can't see it making or breaking a match. a point or two possibly. i have no way to prove this, it's just my opinion. on the flip side of the coin i have a friend who does everything he can to load on the cheap. some of the "once fired" brass he has bought has been obnoxiously out of saami spec. it's caused him many headaches while shooting. not sure where i'm trying to go with all this but to try and keep it simple no i do not sort by headstamp but i rarely compete. if i did i might change my tune.

[wlktheduk]

I don't sort my 9MM or .45ACP brass. I have tried that, but for me at least, I cannot see any significant results.

I'm a B class Production/Revolver/L-10 shooter, so take that for what it's worth.

[Pezco]

I originally sorted my .40 cal brass, but have not found enough of a benefit to continue. I shoot new brass for major matches so I can depend on the outcome.

[Trebor Snave]

I don't sort pistol brass, but please don't ask me to detail my process for rifle brass that I'm going to use for long range shooting. We don't have enough time.

[calishootr]

I dont sort brass by headstamp, dont shoot enuff 9mm in competition to warrant it, tho i do know that 9mm w/ the nato stamp is smaller is case capacity just like its 5.56 nato brother, the casehead web area's are pretty thick, as for 38 super, with everyone switching to SC all the super is probably mine anyways hehehe

if i was shooting in another sport say bullseye i'd be doing it, for what we do in action pistol, the area's we shoot for are generous in comparision, and the ranges/distances have become shorter overthe yrs, more run an gun and less accuracy, butthats a whole nother topic in of itself

rifle brass i do sort, ok...i was bored, but now its all sorted by headstamp, course long ago i lost track of how manytimes fired any of it is, so it may be a moot point...

[SLM]

I shoot 9mm Major Open guns and when it comes to matches if it's brass I load it. No sorting other than checking any obvious S&B cases to see if they are the "Range Safe" steel or regular brass and I've missed some of the steel and loaded it. To be honest I much prefer to use brass that has been through MY gun a minimum of 3 times for any major match. That's four times fired before I shoot it at a Major. I want to know that every single piece of brass is going to function in MY gun. I kinda freaked with the Buckeye Challenge match coming up and I only have maybe 100 or 150 tested cases. Locals don't worry me quite as much but I still prefer known, tested brass.

When I'm working up new loads at home for chrono I use Winchester brass just because I have small stash of it, maybe 75 to 100 cases. I found 50 a month or so ago and used them when I was working up loads with Autocomp. Two day ago I did 60 rounds with a new lot of Silhouette with cases that have been fired probably 5 or 6 times. I checked 12 different loads and the highest SD was 14, the lowest was 4.

When I go to a Major match I just pull out 8 rounds and plop them in the baggie. Maybe I've just been lucky but I could darn near fill out the chrono sheet before they shoot my rounds. I load to a certain FPS to get my PF and I've haven't been off more than 10 FPS on my 3 three shot average. So far I see zero advantage to sorting by head stamp in 9mm.

[freakshow10mm]

Besides sorting the junk brass from the good brass, no. I only reload the major domestic stamps like the ATK family, Remington, Winchester, Hornady, then Starline and Top Brass if I see them. Everything else will tie up my 1050 and send me into a fit of rage and anger no human should endure.

[recovering19A]

I sort all my brass - .40 S&W goes in one bucket, .45 ACP goes in another, and 9mm in a third. Before I started doing that, I kept getting malfunctions...

Yeah, I'm shooting a production gun that will eat anything I throw at it, and I'm not shooting at a level where it really matters (I'm inclined to think the "U" on my card just means I'm that far down the alphabet).

[rgkeller]

I sort 9mm by headstamp and dump everything that is not Win FC R&P PMC Starline or Speer. MIL gets dumped too.

Loading by headstamp gives me consistent OAL and makes the process go faster and smoother.

[Jman]

With 9mm I toss S&B and WCC the rest gets loaded, shot and left on the ground.

[BMartens]

I have found no reason to sort 9mm brass. I load 9 minor and major and I have had no problems with any brass. I do set military aside until I have a batch and then I remove the crimp and run them through with the rest.

Clean your brass, toss obvious defects, then spend more time reloading and shooting.

[jeep45238]

No, let's be honest about it - it's a short sight radius'd firearm floating in mid air. There may be some improvement, but nothing worth that amount of time and loss of brain function.

[Resjudicata]

I voted no. I don't sort anything except revolver brass. On Revo I sort out Winchester and Federal since they have thicker bases and I want that to be uniform for a match. However, for practice I will shoot anything even in the revolver.

I don't even sort out crap brass. As long as it is brass I load it and shoot it. Of course, my STI Limited gun will run even covered in mud and with a muddy mag loaded in it. I know this because I tested it out when I shot the Double Tap match this year.

Chris

[vluc]

I sort 9mm by headstamp and dump everything that is not Win FC R&P PMC Starline or Speer. MIL gets dumped too.

Loading by headstamp gives me consistent OAL and makes the process go faster and smoother.

+1 on the sorting, although I keep a lot more. Win FC, R&P, PMC (when it shows up) CBC, Speer. wcc gets tossed, the rest go into the mixed container and when I get a full load there, I sort it out as well.

Do I need to? No, but it allows me to handle and inspect every piece of brass, and with me cleaning and sorting 500-600 pieces at a go, on a regular basis, I find it time well spent. YMMV.

[PJ BAD]

I too sort my brass. I shoot 38 Super and sort all the Starline from all the other headstamps. I shoot the Starline, which is most likely my brass, at matches and all the rest as practice. I don't know if it really makes a difference but it a habit I got into and have done it ever since I started shooting.

[BBJones]

I sort my brass into categories but not particular headstamps. Good, OK, military crimped, mystery pile.

[kevin c]

I sort, not for improved accuracy (as pointed out, action shooting is not really a precision sport), but for function and consistency. Some brands don't load to my specs well - the rounds will choke in my chambers. I find also that the same brand case will make for much smaller SD's, at least that's what I've found for my loads) - while I no longer hug the PF floor, its better to have consistent ammo, given the springing of my guns.

I shoot once fired sorted for major matches. Batched once to three times fired and sorted for local matches, and mixed brass for practice or other matches where I expect not to recover much brass.

I also will fess up to indulging my O-C tendencies by sorting.

[Sarge]

Just so we are all on the same sheet of music. I personally was looking for consistancy across the chrono more than anything else. I am not worried about the safety or the accuracy.(both are well within normal limits. I just want consistant PF more than anything else.

[RobfromME]

Good morning, Sarge,

My experience has been the same as yours. I was concerned several years ago that since the 9mm is very sensitive to case volume changes due to bullet seating, that perhaps it was also sensitive to any changes between case manufacturers and the minor internal dimension variances that are not tightly controlled by the cartridge manufacturers. After several months of case sorting and many, many trips to the range with the chrono, there was no statistical difference in velocity between case manufacturers. I used the same cases for 4 different reloadings to try and minimize any effects of resizing, and I used the same powders and their respective lot #'s, CCI500 primers of the same lot #, and the same box of Rainier 115 grain bullets. I also used 2 boxes of factory ammo (same lot #) as a control to account for temperature and range conditions between range sessions. As you've probably guessed, I'm afflicted with being an engineer so I couldn't help myself with being so anal-retentive about it.

So, the results were no statistical difference for the lot sizes tested (admittedly not a huge sample, but enough to satisfy me), as long as everything else was the same. However, that's not to say results won't vary, more tests would validate, but heck, the enjoyment of shooting trumps my engineer gene so I won't be concerned with it anymore! Also, all loads were within a 25 fps average velocity of the factory control ammo.

Sorry to ramble on, Sarge...I'll let you recover from my rambling now!

Warmest regards,

Rob

Edited May 16, 2010 by RobfromME

[Chris Keen]

Just so we are all on the same sheet of music. I personally was looking for consistancy across the chrono more than anything else. I am not worried about the safety or the accuracy.(both are well within normal limits. I just want consistant PF more than anything else.

The only thing consistent is change itself. And when it comes to chronographs .... I'd rather play it safe & be well above my mark, than to be consistent within a couple Feet Per Sec. and find that particular chrono doesn't read as high as mine does.

And with the time consuming process that sorting takes, I only have two words to answer your question: Hell & No. My time is better spent practicing.

When shooting minor, you're better off to be well above 130pf anyways, if for no other reason than for assurance that falling plates & poppers don't just sit there laughing at you while you hit them 2 or 3 times right in the sweet spot, wondering why they won't fall down.