Poppa Bear

One of the reasons the test is open book is because many issues have 3 or more rules that deal with that question. One might be the overall rule, a second exemptions, a third the division specific rules. So based on what the question is that needs to be answered you need to site the correct rule.

As others have mentioned place multiple targets in separate arrays. One I have seen challenge people is a popper and an activated target on opposite sides of a barrier. So the left side has a popper that activates a target on the right side, two paper targets somewhat spaced out and a target activated by a popper on the right side. The right side is mirrored with a popper, two paper targets and an activated target from the left side. Now the classifications need to figure out the most efficient order to shoot them especially if the activated target is not disappearing.

That is why I like the Troy way. "Hands below the belt, or hands above shoulders" How flex shoulders, wrists and hands is up to them as long as they meet the requirements.

To make up a shot, yes. But to rack and chamber a new round should be automatic. The OP was last shot. If it had been 2nd 3rd or whatever shot other than last I think we all would have racked and continued on with the stage without any consideration of is it worth it, to include making up the shot on the effected target.

1 Mike. Unless this was a very quick Virginia stage it would have made sense to rack the slide for a quick shot, unless he was shooting a 6 shot revolver then it might have cost him to much time to load a new moon clip. Because nothing exited the barrel it does not count as a shot so there would not be an extra shot penalty.

But 10.5.11 comes into play also. 10.5.11 Holstering or placing a loaded firearm, in any of the following conditions: 10.5.11.1 A single action self-loading firearm with the safety not applied. If the primary safety on the firearm cannot be engaged due to the design of the firearm, and the hammer or trigger cannot be actuated in the condition the gun is in, the safety does not have to be applied. If the gun is completely empty, the safety need not be applied. In my opinion once they have advanced far enough into the holstering action to sweep their lower extremities then they can be DQed under 10.5.11.1 if the safety is not applied. The last sentence of 10.5.5.1 says it is only applicable to holstered handguns. If they complete the holstering then DQ under 10.5.11.1. If they do not complete the holstering then a DQ under 10.5.5 because they swept themselves without holstering.

I would try not to define what is holstering, but rather did they sweep themselves. Most every holster I know of requires the muzzle to either drop into a pouch ie SS, Production, CO. or be placed on a peg/ trigger guard device in a manner that causes the muzzle to be pointed at the lower extremities. Doing this act with the hammer back and the safety on is an exemption, the hammer back without the safety on is a DQ for sweeping as soon as the muzzle crosses those lower extremities. So if the act of holstering advances to the point that they sweep themselves, DQ. If they catch it or if you stop them before they can sweep themselves, then no DQ

The edge of the wall or structure must touch, or be completely inside of, the shooting area in order to be used for support. As I read this part of the rule, anything totally inside the fault lines can be used in any fashion. The questionable part would be any parts that extend outside of the fault lines. The last sentence does state that touching is allowed as along as you are not gaining support from supports that touch the fault lines.

I can see it for the newer shooters who are still working on stage awareness and muzzle control. Myself I do a number of things without conscious thought because I have a lot of matches under my belt along with 30 plus years of shooting. I will trail the gun behind me as I turn to run up range. I will pull the gun towards my body as I move around a wall. I will hold the gun down and to my right as my left hand comes up to open a door or port cover. During a stage walk through, if the shots are approaching the 180 area I tend to find some form of a mark or terrain feature that I can quickly identify just to ensure I am safe. These are just some of the things I do on a subconscious level when I am shooting a stage. It transfers to my daily life also: I will place my finger beside the trigger on a cordless drill when I finish driving a screw or drilling a hole. I avoid sweeping myself as I move the cordless drill around. My CCW and some of my common tools are in the same location on my belt so I holster things without having to look, it is just by feel/repetition.

They could modify the last sentence to reflect that structures inside the fault lines as well as those touching the fault lines do not constitute touching according to the rules. But, why would you feel the need to use a wall support or prop support structure as a shooting support if you are inside the fault lines? I can see allowing the use of those structures that touch the fault lines only because of the ability to touch or lean against it while balancing as you shoot around a wall. If the structure is already inside it there is no reason to stand on it for support. And the rule already states that they do not exist so you cannot get a procedural for touching something already inside the fault lines.

A big part of it is safety. I walk up and upon drawing my gun I lock the slide to the rear and place it on the mat. The RO can now pick up the gun from a stable location getting a good grip and he can do his checks and inspections. When he is done he places it back on the mat for me to pick up. It is similar to why people in the food service industry will not allow you to hold your cup or glass while they fill it. You will decide it is full enough and pull it away while they are still pouring. You will only do that once if they are pouring coffee while you hold the cup over your lap.

I think that is why we should get rid of defaults and just use basic phrases unless the WSB is going to get real specific for a start position. 1. Heels/Toes touching ________________ 2. Palms touching ________________ 3. Both feet IN/OUT of ______________ 4. Sitting on __________________ Leave everything else up to freestyle so that the shooter can twist or turn their body anyway they want. They can hold their hands anywhere they want as long as it is not touching the gun (except PCC) or mags. The ultra gamers will start in such off balance positions to save a split second that they will lose that split second trying to keep their balance as they start to move out of position.

I agree with CHA-LEE. He performed as the WSB specified. He shot T1 - T3 with 4 rounds each. He executed the mandatory reload. He engaged T1 - T3 with 7 shots from the second magazine to make up for one he was short on T3 from the first magazine. So one procedural for the extra shot after the reload.

Standby – This command should be followed by the start signal within 1 to 4 seconds. This is why it is best to not use random, but to instead plan your beep for a defined period of time at the start of each shooter. I might decide to go on 2 for this one and 3 for this one and 2.5 for this one. In other words I set a time in my mind and as I approach it I start to press the button. This way your timing cannot be planned for by the shooter “He always beeps 2 seconds after Stand By so I will count myself and start as he is hitting the button”. Now I am free to watch their hands and the beep can be stopped if they try to jump the gun. In most cases there is a brief delay as they react to the beep, in rare cases they are moving just as the beep goes off. If they do jump it we just reset and start the commands again.

9.4.5.1 Extra shots (i.e. shots fired in excess of the number specified in a component string or stage), will each incur one procedural penalty. Additionally, during scoring, no more than the specified number and highest scoring hits will be awarded. 9.4.5.2 Extra hits (i.e. hits on the scoring area of scoring paper targets in excess of the total number specified in the stage), will each incur one procedural penalty. Note that hits on hard cover and/or no-shoots are not treated as Extra Hits. 10.2.2.1 Procedural penalties for failure to comply with stage procedures do not apply to the number of shots fired. Penalties for firing insufficient or additional shots are addressed in other rules and must not be penalized under the provisions of 10.2.2. 10.2.4 A competitor who fails to comply with a mandatory reload will incur one procedural penalty for each shot fired after the point where the reload was required until a reload is performed. Ok, I see one procedural for 9.4.5.1 due to the extra shot. I do not see any for 9.4.5.2 because we do not have an extra hit. I do not see any for 10.2.2.1 because that is addressed in 9.4.5.1 and 9.4.5.2. I do not see any for 10.2.4 because he reloaded at the required time which was between T-1 and T-2. Under 10.2.2.1 it specifically states that "Procedural penalties for failure to comply with stage procedures do not apply to the number of shots fired. " So we cannot have any procedurals for each shot fired after the reload due to him firing 3 times before the reload.

I tend to favor blanket warnings to the shooters. "This stage has areas with side to side movement. I do NOT want to see anyone DQ'ed because they broke the 180 doing a reload. Please be aware of your muzzle direction." "This is mostly for our newer shooters. This stage has a lot of movement, please keep your finger off your trigger unless you are activity engaging targets. If you cannot see a target you can be DQ'ed for having your finger on the trigger." This is a way of letting them know we will be looking for it, and they will not be able to say they did not know it was a DQ.

That would make for an interesting match. All Production and SS shooters start here, all Lim and Lim10 start here, all Open and CO shooters start here, and all PCC start here. They are after all only competing against their own division (other than the overall stats which is where some shooters like to gauge their performance). That must be one of many reasons that we are all required to start from the same WSB location which is either specific or an anywhere in the FFZ without regard to your division.

If it touched the perf on T2 then it also counts as a hit on T1. If T1 had been a NS he would have been given a NS penalty. It is usually a good idea to put some form of a hard cover or a No Shoot between the targets to separate the scoring areas.

So T2 was below T1 so that the perforation of the head of T2 was on the perforation line of the D zone of T1?

I tend to think of the RO when I shoot stages with a lot of walls or retreating. I tell them my basic plan so that they know where not to be if RO traps are probable, or if the last part of the stage includes a choice of either a quick move from L to R, or R to L to finish the stage. It is safer for them and they know where to pick up the final shots.

The few occasions I know of where the holes was questioned, related to if the turning target was shot front to back or back to front. One counts, one does not.

I agree that if possible the equipment should be fixed, but under the old rules if it could not be fixed it was to shoot for no score. Now the option is available to bump to open and shoot for score. Or, if the equipment cannot be fixed the opportunity is there to start the match as Lim or LIM 10 if it is a production gun and Open if it is a CO gun.

6.2.5.1 is the one that would bump you to open.

If you look at #12 for each of the D appendixes, you will see that: Divisions like Limited, Lim 10, Revolver and Open do not have restrictions on holster and magazine placement. Divisions like Single Stack, Production and Carry Optics do have restrictions so E3 comes into play for them.

The minimum is .38 cal / 9mm so I answered D6 4