captkilowatt Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I am looking for some input on the possible causes of a fractured lock block lug on a Beretta 92FS. This pistol is about 2-3 years old( It is used in weekly IDPA matches.) with about 10,000 rounds of mostly factory standard pressure ammo with mabe a few hundred factory +p rounds and never any +p+ or NATO rounds. I know 10,000 seems to be alot of rounds and have had part breakages with other pistol models with fewer rounds but I am curious as to any conditions ,other than just wear, that may be contributing to lug breakage. Another question that I would like to throw in concerns replacing the broken lock block. I can get a block from Beretta with no problems but I am concerned with mechanical complications that I should watch for when installing a new unworn part into a worn mechinism. Any input on this matter will be appreciated. Thanks !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Send it in, have them put the new locking block in and check the gun over. 10K isn't a lot and it is a lot, I am not at all surprised to hear of a locking block fail at 10K, but I have seen some go a lot longer than that. I'd have a spare fit/checked on my dime while it was there and keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Seems like this was an issue with them early on. I am going to move this to the Beretta Forum where it should get better attention. - Admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I had one that cracked a few years back.. At the time I ordered a kit from Ernest Langdon.. I had about 6K rounds on it.. he was very surprised that I had broken one that early. He did ask what type of ammo I'd been shooting. I just stuck the new one in.. and I'm far from a gunsmith.. runs fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stony Lane Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 You can order one (locking block) here for $60.00: http://www.olhasso.com/PS/parts.htm There are different generations of locking blocks - the newer ones are better (they say). Through many thousands of rounds and many Berettas, I've never broken one. Look at your old one and use it as a guide. Lube all of the old block's shiny spots on the new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I shot a 92 in Production for about a season and a half; I never broke one in my 92s, but broke a few in my 96 duty guns. I remember reading....somewhere...that the locking block is a "consumable" like a recoil spring, and that the typical life was 10k rds. I cannot remember where I read that. I want to say it was a DoD publication. PM Sent also FY42385 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 it happens. although 10k is pretty low on the newer designs. Did one "wing" of the block appear to have more wear than the other? I recommend replacing the plunger at the same time (there are several generations of blocks and I believe the cam surfaces are different between some of them). Buy a second set to keep in the range bag to ward off evil spirits. W/ NATO rounds, the life expectancy for the mil contracts is supposed to be somewhere around 20k, iirc. -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I broke one in my 92FS my first year shooting - the gun couldn't have had more than 5K rounds through it, and it was mostly factory ammo. Back then (1995) I'd heard of locking blocks breaking pretty commonly. kc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Used to be relatively common. Beretta went thought several generations of blocks. From what I recall talking to Ernie Langdon, but the time they got to the 4th gen blocks, the blocks were indestructible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poke_53 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Somehwat common, my newer on has had no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones507 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Havent had a problem with mine yet, knock on wood, and i have had it for 11 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 My local PD retired thier 96D models because of the locking block failure rate, and the near total lack of support for the system from Beretta. What sunk in for Beretta was that while Glock were offering total system upgrades for what seemed like pennies, Beretta were telling 92/96 system users that they would be winding down support and service for the model in favour of te newer product lines..... Our Glock LEO distributer told me Beretta was his best salesman... The local PD told me on average, the 96d's were puking locking blocks before 10k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 That seems awful quick breakage to me. I remember the locking blocks in the early-90s would break and Beretta's research concluded that it was the 90-degree corners where the "ears" begin was the culprit. No radius meant that you had a definite stress riser. They changed the design in the mid-90s and went to a block that had radiused corners. I have personally never seen one of those break, but I reckon that there are some out there after reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacCearain Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 This summer my 92FS broke as well. ~18K rounds. ~18months old. Beretta fixed mine... but I also finally got a backup production gun. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calishootr Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I worked at an indoor shooting range in the mid 90's, and we had a variety of guns for rent, and at the time the 92F was the one everyone wanted to rent because the military had just adopted it as their standard sidearm, well, as i recall, ours never went past about 3000, maybe 3500 rds on the outside without breaking or cracking a locking lug, the first couple trips back to Beretta were fine, then they got wind that we were an indoor range and it was a rental and they got testy, said things like' it wasnt meant to go that many rounds' and finally refused to fix it....so we stopped renting it, btw...same time frame we had a Glock 17 that went 60,000 rounds in 6 months, only borke a trigger return spring which cost us 2 dollars and 2 minutes to replace... the other thing that used to go on the 92F's was the trigger return spring in reading the othr posts i guess they have made strides in trying to correct the locking block failure problem, least the rounds between failure are more it sounds like.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midmoboy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I have two Beretta 92's...both "G" models. One I have run a bunch and have thousands of rounds through it. I have had since 1992 and it was slightly used then. It was my duty carry. So I trained with it and shot a bunch of matches with it. A locking block went out about six years after I got it. Sure enough, not long after the trigger return spring went. Since then...it has run like a champ. Mostly factory stuff and my reloads which are not hot by any means. Cosmetically it looks pretty bad....and I have had the trijicon replaced once. It was a new model when I got it....and took me a long time to break the locking block....a bunch of rounds. I do know...as mentioned, there was a problem with the locing blocks but Beretta fixed it. At least that is what I am told. I know it is a "go to gun" for me...trust it that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufDog Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Shooting in the military over 15 years I have never had one break, although I have seen several. They are relatively unpredictable as to when they break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Lived through the military transition to M-9's. 10k is about when we started seeing lock block wings start to crack. We would get the occasional cracked slide about then too. Talk to a military gunsmith and he will tell you that is very common. A new one should last longer and just drop in. Just make sure to order the right one for the gun. As many have said, there are newer generation models of this part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will marshall Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Lived through the military transition to M-9's. 10k is about when we started seeing lock block wings start to crack. We would get the occasional cracked slide about then too. Talk to a military gunsmith and he will tell you that is very common. A new one should last longer and just drop in. Just make sure to order the right one for the gun. As many have said, there are newer generation models of this part. New or not they do crack eventually. It's not that big a deal. Just replace it when it happens. The newer slide though definately is a must, the old one(very unlikely that anyone still has it) is the one that was having all the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffCSR Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Lived through the military transition to M-9's. 10k is about when we started seeing lock block wings start to crack. We would get the occasional cracked slide about then too. Talk to a military gunsmith and he will tell you that is very common. A new one should last longer and just drop in. Just make sure to order the right one for the gun. As many have said, there are newer generation models of this part. New or not they do crack eventually. It's not that big a deal. Just replace it when it happens. The newer slide though definately is a must, the old one(very unlikely that anyone still has it) is the one that was having all the problems. It wasn't the 'old style' slide that was a problem, it was the French manufactured slide blanks that used Tellurium in the alloy that was the problem. The standard F slides are still in use by many of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonInWA Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Beretta has gone through 3-4 generations of the locking block. Todd Green, of www.Pistol-Training.com (and formerly a Berettta executive and shooter)emphasizes that replacement blocks are NOT just a drop in item, that a gunsmith needs to fit them to the specific slide to account for wear, or the new one will have a severely limited lifespan. This has been discussed at www.m4carbine.net fairly recently. Best, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB92 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Been smithing Beretta's for almost 20 years, and shooting them in competition. Never had to "fit" a new locking block to a used slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonInWA Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Been smithing Beretta's for almost 20 years, and shooting them in competition. Never had to "fit" a new locking block to a used slide. I'd suggest that it might be worthwhile to research it on www.m4carbine.net-look for ToddG posts, or you might want to contact Todd directly at www.pistol-training.com. According to Todd, merely replacing a locking block will work, but unless you take into account the slide wear/eccentric slide wear induced by the previous locking block, your new locking block will have a significantly reduced lifespan. Best, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB92 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Beretta is curently on the 3 gen locking blocks, and thats where it will stay. The current locking block has been engineered as far as it can. A new locking block will wear into the slide (I dont need to say this but I will, providing the slide is NOT mangled/cracked, etc, but we are discussing a usable slide on a working gun here) as any part will when replaced. Been doing it for years, as the DoD has. I have talked with Beretta Italy engineers, Beretta USA engineers (actually face to face with these guys), talked more times then I can count with David Sams (google him, you will find out who he is), David Olhasso, Ernest Langdon......the list goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonInWA Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Beretta is curently on the 3 gen locking blocks, and thats where it will stay. The current locking block has been engineered as far as it can. A new locking block will wear into the slide (I dont need to say this but I will, providing the slide is NOT mangled/cracked, etc, but we are discussing a usable slide on a working gun here) as any part will when replaced. Been doing it for years, as the DoD has. I have talked with Beretta Italy engineers, Beretta USA engineers (actually face to face with these guys), talked more times then I can count with David Sams (google him, you will find out who he is), David Olhasso, Ernest Langdon......the list goes on. Without intending to cast aspersions on your experience or the conversations/depth of conversations that you've had with the people you've discussed, here's the information Todd Green posted in www.m4carbine.net some time back: "...note that it may not be as simple as just dropping a new block into the gun. You need to make sure the locking block is mating evenly with both shoulders in the slide. Otherwise, you accellerate wear on the block. That's why you'll see a .mil gun go 10K before it breaks a block, then 5k on the second block, then 2k, then 1k...and people blame the gun. It's not the gun. It's the armorer who is failing to follow proper protocol." I'm not a gunsmith, but this intuitively makes sense to me. You might want to run it specifically by some of the people you've discussed (and I know who David Sams is, but thanks for proffering the Google suggestion). Hey, I'm not the enemy here. Take the information for what it's worth. Best, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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