Jim Norman Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Don't know, but most of the people we shoot with regularly arrive about 2 hours early, build the match, then run their prospective squad, then stay and tear it all down. In the interim, while the match is on, we get called out to solve stage problems or do the RM thing. That is at home. When we travel most of us wind up on the same squad and often have to do full contact taping or we wind up not having a hole to tape. Usually what we do is to have the Ondeck shooter, the shooter and the guy that just shot stand down then we all go to an area of the stage and tape the targets in that area or walk out and set particular steel. Seems to work. Occasionally at home we might all get caught up in a discussion, but then we are all over getting it done. You can't make people work, but you can make almost anyone feel that they are slacking and done right the point gets across without too much ruffling of feathers. We have been known to hand people tape or pasters and offer to show how they are used. But thankfully MOST people actually get it. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 We have a shooter who has been repeatedly.. counseled. He was overheard saying "I pay my fees. Why should I have to work?" Next match he pastes his own targets for each stage. Thats the best solution yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I have been blessed to have a great bunch of guys that I squad with regularly that are very hard workers, but I have been on squads that are some of the laziest around, VERY ANNOYING! I usually will yell at them and they will grab some pasters for a while, but then I get into a bad mood and shoot crappy. These are the same kind of people that sneak away after the match and don't help teardown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I had a wonderful Canadian practically knock me over to paste targets once with her cool Open division paster gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 If I'm running the stage, I tell them. If I'm not, I tell them. We do have a duty and responsibility to educate our fellow shooters..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uno5885 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 If they don't paste, don't have the targets ready for that shooter. This is not a spectator sport. If the GM's can do it everyone can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I was ready to deal with our new range Loafer this weekend, but he didn't show up at the match. Perhaps he saw my Friday rant... Our plan though, is not to reset or paste for him if he sits on his can. We will also move him down in the shooter order. I think that is the best way to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.A. Wason Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I make an announcement at the beginning regarding the positions/jobs that need to be accomplished, and how "everyone works." Then, if later I recognize someone isn't doing their part I go to that person and tell them individually/privately that I need them to do whatever the certain job is that they are not doing. I have had good success with that method. If that doesn't work, I call them out publicly so to speak and tell them I need them to do their part. Sometimes being embarassed in front of the squad compells them. I admit that my first instinct is to call them out publicly and tell them to get the job done. I realized that for me, using the first technique as above is usually more successful. New shooters seem to not work because they are somewhat overwhelmed with the total experience. I cut them a little slack, and try to set an example for them. But after one match they should understand the process and what needs to be done. A larger percentage of the time people who have shot enough to know better are the ones who aren't working. Some have told me, "I paid my match fees, and I came here to shoot not work." Those folks I am a bit more verbally forceful with. Funny thing is we shouldn't even have to be talking about this, because everyone should know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin D Wolverton Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Heck, the Pros paste the loafers just need a kick in the tail. Exactly... at SSC this year I watched Robbie, MV, Taren, Todd, BJ, ect ect bust their ass pasting and setting steel. They're at the top of the game. They're there to win. Yet, they found the time and the SPORTSMANSHIP to help reset the stage for the lowly "D" shooters... They didn't sit back and say "I'm Rob Latham... I don't have to paste," or "I'm MV, President of USPSA... I paid my fee's, and I'm here to win, not reset stages." If they can do it and not bitch, why can't you? Hmmmm? (not you as in the poster of the quote... you generally, as in the loafers) Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 One caveat: Before you say something to a suspected loafer, be sure they really are loafing. I remember being pulled aside by a club member the first time I shot a 10 stage steel plate match at an out of town club for "not painting". There were 10 people in the squad and 4 cans of paint. I'd painted for the first 6 or 7 shooters, and then spent some time putzing with my bag and watching other shooters. It put me off that someone saw me not paint once or twice (along with the other 6 shooters who didn't have a paint can) and assumed I'd been on my duff the whole time. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Fortunately the rest of the match was great and I was squadded with a bunch of shooters who gave me some great advice and pointers. Helped me get rid of the bad taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I hate the shade dwellers Especially when they are from the following squad who have caught up to us - yet move into our precious little space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Without reading the whole thread... When it is their turn to the line, don't reset the stage, let them paste and set steel for themselves before then can shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterB Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I hate the shade dwellers Especially when they are from the following squad who have caught up to us - yet move into our precious little space. Most times at club matches if our squad has caught up and are waiting on the squad in front of us, a few of us take turns helping paste and set/paint, and get thanks from them. Usually that squad consists of some new competitors, not so much loafers, but it sets a good example and get the point of "you need to keep the match moving" without having to get in someone's face. If after a couple of stages they still don't have the idea, we will wait in the shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Our Club first 7 guys that show up set up, and get the match free and more important it counts toward the Clubs work party requirement. The RSO's and scorers get the brass after the match. Take down same thing help out and it counts toward the work party and get the match fee back, About the only job left is pasting. It's never an issue, RO calls pasters and plenty of guys go down range. On deck and shooting next we say don't paste. Match runs faster if you are making sure all is ready when you are called to the line. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 This is how RIO does it: riopractical.com "I have also noticed, and am now starting to get way too many complaints, that competitors are being spectators and not participating in re-setting the stages for the next shooter. This applies to taping, re-setting steel and picking up brass. You know who you are. We all want to shoot and in order to do that; we need to re-set the stage. Please, when your name is called, do your job! If an RO or match director notices that you continue to ignore the request to help, your scorecard will be placed on the bottom and you will get another chance to do your job." The above is printed on their website, and I think is a good policy that since being made public I haven't seen it need to be implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Heck, the Pros paste the loafers just need a kick in the tail. Exactly... at SSC this year I watched Robbie, MV, Taren, Todd, BJ, ect ect bust their ass pasting and setting steel. They're at the top of the game. They're there to win. Yet, they found the time and the SPORTSMANSHIP to help reset the stage for the lowly "D" shooters... They didn't sit back and say "I'm Rob Latham... I don't have to paste," or "I'm MV, President of USPSA... I paid my fee's, and I'm here to win, not reset stages." If they can do it and not bitch, why can't you? Hmmmm? (not you as in the poster of the quote... you generally, as in the loafers) Frank We had a kickass squad at WSSC except for one turd who didnt paste target one. not too shabby a ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavageMOA Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I feel like I should post from the receiving end of this argument. I recently shot my first match and I was still learning all the motions on what to do in between shooters. Everyone else there is a regular, so they knew what to do without being told (and they got to it so fast, I often didn't have time to grab pasters and get to work). One of the regulars pulled me aside and POLITELY told me what to do in order to keep our squad moving. I greatly appreciated the gesture of him pulling me aside rather than calling me out. Keep this in mind whenever you see someone obviously struggling (new shooters). They may not be intentionally loafing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin D Wolverton Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Savage (and others who are new)... we aren't talking about newer shooters. We understand that you probably don't know what's going on. Most local match directors know who their regulars are, and who the newer shooters are, and will do just what you describe. We're mainly complaining about those that have been shooting for years and years, and have just become lazy... most probably figure they have "paid their dues," or "If I don't help reset, I'll shoot better..." Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I'm 20 and I'm afraid I'll get the age card pulled on me. I just tape... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I've posted this before, but long ago I was at a Florida Open and there was a new upcoming GM in with the Super Squad. One passerby asked another of the SS members how the "new guy" was getting along. The answer was something like "well, he was a C-class taper, but we're working on him and he's up to a high-B now". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 You get some "loafers" every so often, some people are like that... On the other side to even it out though you have someone like we had this weekend who gets Dq'ed on the first stage of his first match and then spends the rest of a beautiful sunny day taping and setting steel for everyone!!! Gotta respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 It seems to me that this topic keeps coming around every couple of years. I just did a search and found a few references to it. I think there are three categories here; 1. The new shooters who simply doesn't know because no-one took the time to tell them. 2. The shooter that feels all this work is simply beneath them. 3. The shooter who is simply oblivious to it all. I'm not too fond of the last two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 If they are club regulars, we mock them mercilessly. If they are new, we hand them a roll of tape and tell them to follow right behind the scorer, until they are in the hole. If I have a squad of loafers, I RO and then tape- very slooowly. Then I let everyone know that there will be no "shoot throughs" allowed next match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Sometimes I'm one of the loafers, mostly when I've put in 2 hours building stages before the match and I start getting winded. On the bright side, the "regular" loafers at our matches tend to want to be squaded together for some reason. I figure its their problem then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Too many of these responses are of the passive-aggressive nature. This is not the best way to solve the problem, it may provide some satisfaction but it wont solve the problem. It is best to confront the individual, explain the situation and articulate the expectations that apply to all shooters. Confronting a problem is not a bad thing. Do it in a nice manner without anger. Be factual. Failure to meet expectations has consequences. Give the shooter the opportunity to meet the expectation by constant re-enforcement of those expectations. If the shooter fails to meet the expectations, they suffer the consequences of which many have articulated in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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