Boats

Been off the forum for few days making dry movement at home a lot. What is working well locking my wrist elbows and arms, then making movements target to target from the body. Eyes to the target, swinging full body into it break the shot as the dot arrives. Bad weather not much chance outside, indoor club range stapled paper plates to three target backers 3 lanes side by side. 15 yards distance Moving plate to plate not real fast it’s easy to hit all center Speed up opens groups on the plates. Real fast I start to get misses. Probably only way to learn speed is go fast accept then try to minimize misses. Paper backer much larger than the plate giving me feedback on misses. That’s were I am with it. On index. If you don’t have a consistent gun mount and index shotgun on clays, particularly sporting with widely varied targets you will get inconsistent breaks & high miss rate. Again thanks all

Probably nothing a whole lot of drilling won’t fix. 1000 odd shots practice plus half a dozen matches actually not much effort learning new sighting system . Needs more, dry at home could increase 10x no cost. Johnny Chimpos advice brief but very relevant. Shooting my factory stock 1911 Commander sight so small don’t see much of it Position, grip & target focus makes it very shootable. Fellow near me DR Middlebrooks was a early successful speed shooter. Did a video of his wife running a plate rack with pistols sights removed. Distance too she never missed. Red Dot remarkable precision & advantage to old eyes. Easy to get caught up in the precise part and forget the rest. Thanks

Good advice here. I have Brian’s book (which is very relevant to all shooting) section 3 is detailed on target, not sight focus. My issue is learning the red dot. It’s easy to loose it moving. I think drilling the move dry will help. Waive the gun around with wrist it’s hard to acquire sights . Body drives the move much smoother . This no different Rifle or Shotgun, just have to do it dot.

Many years Rife competition mostly offhand silhouette , spent some time IDPA, shoot Sporting Clays for fun. All 3 my primary focus, eyes, position , mind, is spot I want to hit. Bring the guns sight to the spot. New to Red Dots, shooting Rimfire club match, club rules. It’s like steel challenge, simpler, indoors at 15 yards. Gun held free style on a yellow cone to start . Stages targets vary, small to large. To date probably 1000 rounds practice with the dot on paper plates tapped to backer moving one to another., 5 club matches so far. Accurate not fast. Like advice on how to acquire targets. Have been focusing on the dot resting top of the start cone. Then bring it to the first target. Move to next targets same way watching the dot move it onto the desired spot. I know I would shoot much faster eyes on the spot I want to hit bring the sights to it almost sub conscious. Gun aligned it just goes off hardly think about it at all. It’s the way I shoot everything else. Problem is can’t seem to make the red dot work that way. Any and all comments appreciated Boats.

Barrels back from Klaus at KK depot. Very good job, custom made and fitted base for my Reflex sight. Boats

Update, barrels boxed up going to KKDepot Monday. 41s in production about 1957 to current, 45 years, variations in sight dovetails. KK fits the adaptor to the individual slide. Never would have found him without help Thanks again. Boats

Exactly what I needed, thanks for the tips. Boats

Buying 80s vintage M41 with two barrels 5 & 7. Slide is drilled for and has Weaver rings mounted . Factory rear sights in the dovetails. Early tube style red dot comes with the gun, fits the weaver rings. Plan is remove the Weaver mounts both slides ditch the tube & run the 5 inch with factory iron. Like to add a modern reflex to the 7. Don’t know which one yet. Think my options are remove the iron sight get a reflex mount that fits then install a dovetail to reflex sight adaptor. Or if lucky find a reflex adapter drilled with Weaver spacing screw it with existing slide holes. That allows more forward mounting. Could buy a machinable base blank drill it matching the slides holes and profile the bottom to suit the slide. No alteration to the slide. Have profiled scope mounts before in the mill. Not full contact edges only barrel contact works on two mount Unertl style mounts CF rifles. Looking for advise on function, rear of the slide vs forward. Possible suppliers easy screw on option & machinable base. Tips on machining to fit too. Few I have done made it up as I went along. Last point, is there a factor to consider which reflex sight, bottom clearance buy base & sight same maker ? Appreciate all advise. Boats

Your opinion is valid and there is a lot we agree on. Key is calling shots. I have reached the point I don’t want to shoot any shots without calling the strike. This learned first from Smallbore Prone, international rule 50 meters iron sights. You have access to the spotting scope beside your mat & confirm strike every shot, 2 sighters allowed once going for record no more.. Silhouette offhand any shooter not using a spotter with spotting scope and push pin spotting board is shooting for fun not for score. It’s the fastest way to train a new shooter and experienced shooters to advance. This driven home recently training my 13 year old grandson, kids like to shoot fast, let him for a while then out comes the spotting scope and spotting board. He puts a pin spot he thinks the bullet strikes I replace it different color pin actual strike. I started shooting shotguns late in life, sporting clays. Have a very good coach who watches the shot and targets break & asks were I put the shot string. From the answer he corrects and explains. Signed my grandson up with him and after the basics question were did you put the shot string is the core of the lesson. Also agree MECHANICAL accuracy, gun load sights is critical, if it won’t shoot precisely calling strike is very difficult. Back to Shotguns to the point good coaches want you to use very tight chokes so the call & strike is more precise. Worse thing is the shooter breaks with a lucky edge pellet and thinks every thing went well. We also agree in sight exactly were the point of impact is. When I was a Silhouette match director often heard shooters say they “held belly of the Ram, between the pIgs legs” etc. Never saw a good shooter do that, it’s a bullseye trick to overcome the rule requIred sights. Put the bullet were you want the strike the way to shoot good scores. My opinion on the original OP request I should have said “ starting with a gun properly zeroed” then fine tuned from position. We differ in adjusting the gun for match shooting. Even the most stable of shooting set ups Prone rifle from a mat sling shooting coat gun held tight shoulder cheek forearm & grip will have a different point of impact match rule position to bench rest. To the point prone shooters test .22 Ammo from Prone. They may test rifle ammo combinations mechanical rest indoors controlled conditions. Match sights come from position. Shotgun coach adjust comb height stock shape etc from shooting targets flying not stationary target pattern board. It’s reserved to test loads and patterns. Core of it is every firearm recoils & starts its movement while the projectile is in the barrel. More recoil, more movement, more difference in mechanical accuracy vs practical accuracy on target. Firearm that has the most recoil and held in the least secure position is a pistol. Difference in point impact shift hidden by distance & size of the targets but it’s there. This from a veteran bullseye shooter our club, he says he can change point of impact 1911 pistol by how he adjust the friction spring in a Ransom Rest. Short of it is scored by strIkes best adjust with strikes under match conditions. Boats

Here you go found this in my photos several years ago. NRA 100 meter 1/2 size Lever Rimfire silhouette target. 100 meters iron sight Marlin 39A CCI SV about 80% hits long run 60 shots. This a final target after running a few shorter test to adjust the sights. What did I learn ? Did not have confidence in the gun on Rams, now I do. Centered up group made for higher # of hits. Slight sight miss-adjustment elevation would have increased the miss % . Ram target wide don’t worry much about wind adjustment but deviation from no wind good to know when shooting Matches, wait out gust or shoot without regard to wind. I do study the wide misses after I use the target to zero . My high misses from eyesight issues fuzzy front sight. Low coming out of the gun too fast that’s part of shooting fast to get a true Center zero. Happens some late shots time running out and very useful to know & avoid. Low right under the neck I overheld & shot on a bobble Most not all Action pistol steel targets higher than wide. Windage errors will cost points, elevation not much . IDPA zero ring is round you need centered up elevation and windage or accept 3s . Round plates need well centered groups. Need to know difference distances will make. It’s best if all guns are well zeroed. On plates. Yesterday silhouette practice stopped by the gun clubs plate rack with my 6 month old carry 92FS compact. Ran the plate rack couple times . Used to use my Combat Commander . They group different, 92 tighter with left bias Commander larger long run groups with more elevation error. Never figure this out without group shooting on paper & bench rest will give false indication Boats .

I do it two ways, quick shoot one shot & confirm your call and bullets strike are the same. For a 100 % sure zero long run center of impact is the best. For me it’s not needed pistol, essential Silhouette rifle . I could see advanced action pistol shooters could use the method, it goes like this . Post a cardboard painted facsimile of match target at match distance . From position and at match pace shoot a group. Don’t go slow and use bullseye holds, that’s not how the gun will be used. Silhouette match is 10 on a critter I usually run a 20 shot Group. Take the target and X out any obvious off or “ flyer” shots . Other words ignore bad shots for strike confirmation . Bring the target back to a bench and box in the group with a framing square. Draw a X through the corners. Center of the X is center of impact long run as the gun will be used For Silhouette I repeat at all 4 Critter distances & log sight settings. Fixed pistol sight no change in sight setting very useful to know change in point of impact at distance I can tell you Rifles center of impact fired offhand, strings of 5 in 2 1/2 minutes is different than couple of shots from a rest. Pistols I don’t go as far but do shoot 10 Mozambique’s at the IDPA target 10 yards and eyeball the groups . Mine have a bias left that will not show up going slow from a rest. Scored on strikes better to test as you will be scored. Boats

Main sport is silhouette rifle did spend half a dozen years local IDPA matches, mostly revolvers & a little SSP. This forum & Brians book helped me a lot. Always sight in Rifles offhand at match distance on paper painted critters. Box in majority of shots with a framing square draw X through the corners and figure point of impact for sight adjustment from the center of group. Anyhow switching my carry and fun shooting gun from revolver to Beretta 92FS compact. It has the finger grip front of the trigger guard. Have some right hand issues, couple operations, it’s not as strong as it should be . Gripping the gun high right hand heels of hands together, left over, both thumbs forward left index finger grabbing front of the guard pulling back. Running all the switches , slide release decocker even the mag release left thumb. Not moving the right hand grip it’s anchored. About 750 rounds through the 92 now running groups on the IDPA cardboard target 15 yards. 3 shot Mozambique’s first shot double action next 2 single action. There is a decided left bias to point of impact. 2-3 inches. Ran some more groups left index finger beside the trigger guard no tension at all. Left POI bias goes away. However it’s not as comfortable recoil wise as the left finger pulling the pistol in tighter. Seems to me the heavy double action first shot needs a strong grip. I can live with couple inches left & don’t plan to adjust sights to compensate. I do wonder how others with the 92 Pistols grip the gun. They are not like anything I have experence with. Boats

Using small rifle in 9 mm, large pistol in 38/55 Rifle. Both from my inventory. They work fine Rifle is a low pressure load. Pistol Beretta 92 with strong hammer fall, probably run 4-5 months. Local large shop Shotgun 209s all they have. Last shortage, 22 Rimfire, I was Silhouette match director our club. Match suffered no new shooters many others gave it up. It has not recovered. My guess Spring it will improve. Boats

Basic choice is Auto or O/U make that one first. I shopped around and ended up with a used Beretta 687. Like has been said Berettas are wider Brownings are deeper, both made well. Most of the new Brownings are ported though and I don't like ports. Clays is the main thing I use it for but it will shoot skeet just fine. There is a significant advantage to using the same shotgun all the time. Been using it for trap too but if I shot a lot of Trap would want a dedicated Trap gun. Stock and rib are different than Clays. Throwing high is an advantage. Shot a friends 1925 Parker SC trap for a few months and it was sweet. Don't know what I would go for if a Trap gun though. Nice old Trap Model 12 would be a good choice. Boats

I don't clean my pistol primer pockets either. But I shoot a Schuetzen rifle breech seating 32/40 bullets. Way it works you put the bullet in the chamber without a case. Then use the same case for every shot priming and re-charging it at the range. 100 shot match after 30 or so crud builds up in the primer pocket, you can start to feel the primers seating hard as it builds. I either stop and clean or switch to a fresh case. Don't clean or switch I will get misfires due to the primer not seating properly. I suspect the hammer hitting the primer pushes past the crud and gives the effect of a high primer. Seating by hand you can feel dirty or clean very well. Schuetzen Rifle you can adjust the hammer spring and I run it light with Large Pistol Primers. Point is in the extreme dirty primer pockets will cause misfires. Boats

I always work up new loads at the range Carry primed cases and a Lee Nutcracker hand tool to seat the bullets. My logbook loads only is a Sinclair bet it's 20 years old and worth it's weight in gold. Individual rifle I look sight settings in a small book carried in it's dedacated case. Sight settings on every one is pasted to the side of the stock too. Boats

Locks are great, so much bad word out on them used Smiths with the lock are much cheaper. Never had a problem with my lock equiped Smith. Comes to a choice equal price I would pick the non lock gun, fewer parts Boats

3 jaw chuck off a junk electric drill makes a good extractor rod tool too. Always put a few empty cases in the cylinder when cranking down. Screws tighten best clean with a little bit of grease on the thread. You would think it makes them unscrew easier but not so less friction they will tighter tighter and less chance of breaking Boats

Is there a final word on who qualifies as LEO and who does not. I see guys shooting duty gear in matches that are not currently serving as a Law Enforcement Officer. Or at least I don't think they are. Who knows they might be undercover. Boats

Clays for me too, burns clean reloads slip in easy. I have to run it a bit over Hodgens recommended max to make power factor with 158 gr LRN in a 4 inch 686. However Hodgen does not publish any fast loads for Clays and Lead. No signs of excessive pressure or problems. Start low work up with a chronograph watch for trouble and use common sense. Boats

I use a starters pistol for dog training, It's a cheap one but works good. Advantage is no chance (or little chance)of running afowl of some firearms law. Best of the starters was a Harrington and Richardson not sure they are still produced. No way I would use a modified real revolver for training. I am not likely to make a mistake but who knows who may pick it up. And I would be responsible for sure. Boats

We rebuilt 3 shooting houses. All Gable roof with tacked on to the A frame roof longer overhang on the backstop side. Cheaper to make it a seperate assembly, pitch is much less than the roof. Foam insulated overhead, this because the county monitors our off property noise level. Side benfit of the foam is the house is more comfortable to shoot from on hot sunny days. Have not seen any negative to the foam in a couple years use. The framing is all tied with corragated steel plates intended for Hurricane code constuction. They are simple and don't cost much to install. The overhangs did not have them and lost one to snow last winter, replacement has the steel plates. My company sells our old Shipping containers, worth buying to use as a storage box, cost too much to salvage materals from. Transportation to get one on site is often times half the cost. Boats

Shot that cost you the most "downs" in matches is the head shot, I always sight on Heads at the IDPA classifer head distance, 7 yards. Some clubs may ask for a head shot longer but not many. Then sight again at 10 yards body shots, Next I group the gun at 20 yards body shots just like on the classifier. This to see were it prints not to make sight adjustments. I finish with body shots at 35 yards. My notebook gives center of impact detail at 7 10 20 & 35. sights are set for 7. Clubs I shoot 90% of the shots are 7 & 10 but I don't want to miss the 20's either. Way I sight and adjust is from freestyle position on the actual target. Take a large group say 10 shots, throw out any wild shots or flyers. Then using a framing square box in the bulk of bullet holes 80 % is the often quoted number of shots, drawing a square with a pencil. Then put a X through the corners of the box. Center of the X is center of your impact. Adjustments should be made from that point. It's a shotgun pattern you are centering not a pin point. Center of impact held in a rest postion or on a bullseye target is not the same as shots fired in a match. Carried this method over from Rifle Silouette. It's a good way to center up offhand rifle or freestyle handgun groups. Boats

I shoot informal bullseye just to keep things well rounded. It's great pratice for long shots. Use a S&W M 1905 6 inch target with Wadcutters, it's very accurate. Put it down and pick up my 625 IDPA gun and the scores at 25 yds are no different. Difference in accuracy of the two guns is lost in my hold. If I shot our Club Sanctioned Bullesye matches dot scopes would make my outfit non-competitive. You can't shoot better than you can see. Boats