Best open Red Dot Sight

[davecutts]

Generally I would agree with the indian analogy but in the case of dot sights there are huge differences between say the Cmore and most tube sights.

Wrong, pick one and shoot it, end of the year the scope will not make a difference, the shooter will.

I know there are physical differences between the tube and heads up scopes, but neither one will make anyone a better shooter, practice makes shooters better not equipment (given the equipment works C-more, Aimpoint, Doctor all work).

Edited February 3, 2009 by davecutts

[uscbigdawg]

C-More (Max, Chris, et. al.) or Aimpoint (TGO and Eric).

Rich

[BritinUSA]

Eric was shooting Aimpoint and is now C-More, Saul Kirsch still uses the Aimpoint.

[BSeevers]

Its the indian not the arrows but something like 95% of the top indians use a c-more so that might influence your choice.

[PINMAN44]

I'm a sucker for OKO unfortunately they don't sell here anymore.

Best off with a C-More or Aimpoint

[gino_aki]

Well when they work, and the one on my Open .40 hasn't puked yet, I've had my best success with a Tasco PDP5.

Gino, I started in open with PDP3s but they only lasted 2K-3K rounds before they went intermittent. I went through 3-4 of them in less than a year before I switched to Aimpoints. Based on the experience of others, the lifetime seemed quite variable depending on the vintage as well.

I posted in the "Open 40" thread that I went through two Aimpoint Comps before settling on the PDP5, mainly 'cause you can get them on eBay for about $40.00 these days when someone wants to sell one. I only get the Japanese made PDP4's and 5's not the Chinese made ones. Too bad Dr. Dot isn't around anymore, I've got about five I'd like "bulletproofed."

[shooterbenedetto]

I say if you started with cmore or aimpoint and now want to switch, you will wind up switching

back to where you learned and first started. Eric G. switched over to Cmore mainly because of

SPONSORSHIP! He was wold champ with aimpoint and still world champ with cmore. Cutts is

right on the money ITS THE INDIAN NOT THE ARROW! bulletproof your equiptment (pick durability)and concentrate

on shooting skills. Just my 2 cents.

[larry cazes]

Wrong, pick one and shoot it, end of the year the scope will not make a difference, the shooter will.

I know there are physical differences between the tube and heads up scopes, but neither one will make anyone a better shooter, practice makes shooters better not equipment (given the equipment works C-more, Aimpoint, Doctor all work).

OK. You convinced me Dave. No difference at all in the end result. Now that we have that decided we might as well just ask the mods to remove all of these forums concerning equipment since none of it makes a difference......

[davecutts]

I have dream where we talk about shooting not about stuff.

That said for the new guy there is always the search option because most of the equipment talk has been beaten to death. I've started to get into three gun and where did I go to find out what I needed? I called people, and I searched, there are tones of equipment threads in the Enos vault.

I was into photograph/art at one point in my life and it was the same with that crowd everyone wanted to talk about the coolest stuff, but not about the image. I saw lots of cool stuff, but not that many good images.

[larry cazes]

I have dream where we talk about shooting not about stuff.

That said for the new guy there is always the search option because most of the equipment talk has been beaten to death. I've started to get into three gun and where did I go to find out what I needed? I called people, and I searched, there are tones of equipment threads in the Enos vault.

I was into photograph/art at one point in my life and it was the same with that crowd everyone wanted to talk about the coolest stuff, but not about the image. I saw lots of cool stuff, but not that many good images.

Umm. Last time I looked this was the equipment forum Yup. Says right up there, "Open Gun Technical" There are others that deal with shooting techniques.

[larry cazes]

Well when they work, and the one on my Open .40 hasn't puked yet, I've had my best success with a Tasco PDP5.

Gino, I started in open with PDP3s but they only lasted 2K-3K rounds before they went intermittent. I went through 3-4 of them in less than a year before I switched to Aimpoints. Based on the experience of others, the lifetime seemed quite variable depending on the vintage as well.

I posted in the "Open 40" thread that I went through two Aimpoint Comps before settling on the PDP5, mainly 'cause you can get them on eBay for about $40.00 these days when someone wants to sell one. I only get the Japanese made PDP4's and 5's not the Chinese made ones. Too bad Dr. Dot isn't around anymore, I've got about five I'd like "bulletproofed."

Still seem to be quite a few of the TASCOs around for less than $100. My .22 steel gun is a Ruger MKII greatly improved by charlie Granger with a TASCO PDP3 and Weigand mount. Is there an easy way to tell where they were built?

[Neomet]

I think a point that is possibly being missed here is that just because top shooters use one sight or another. (add Angus to the Aimpoint group) is that what works for top shooters with good/great vision may well not work for the masses down in B and C. There are specific differences in the types of sights. Some folks won't mind the smaller glass area of a J-point or Burris. Some will. Same thing with a slide mounted optic. The movement may bother some shooters. For me, a C-more in bright sun, even with a big dot module would leave me looking for the dot, even when it was square in the middle of the lens, at least a couple times a match. I have never, ever had that problem with an Aimpoint so that is what works for me. I am a 53 year old C class shooter with pretty darn crappy vision, but I will bet that there are more people who fall into my category than into the GM with great eyesight lot.

My point is simply that I don't think there is ONE best optic. There are better ones for different needs and preferences. Unfortunately I think the only way to really figure out what is best for you is to shoot different ones until you find one that works for you. You won't whup up on Eric if you get the right one, but the proper optic for you will take that off of the list of things that can hold you back.

[JasonC]

Back to your original question, I prefer the slide mounted Docter. I am sponsored by Grams Engineering, BUT I was using a Docter for several years before being sponsored by Beven. That being said...

I agree with Cutts, the "best" sight is the one you practice with. In fact we were just laughing about this same question last week. People always ask the wrong question. Instead of which one is best, how about why you prefer one over the other. So, here we go.

I started shooting open with a Docter. After my first year, I switched to a C-more. Why? Because everyone kept telling me it was better. And back then I thought I could buy skill. So I shot a C-more for a year. After a year of using the C-more, I ended up back with the Docter and have been using it for the past 3 years. Here's the reasons why:

Docter pros

Compact and lightweight

With the Grams slide cut it places the dot in the same place as the front sight of a limited gun

Excellent optics

With the Grams mods it is durable and the dot brightness is great

I can remove the sight and replace it without having to re-zero

The battery lasts for a year. The only reason I replace it at the end of the year is preventative maintenance

It does not interfere with brass ejection

For 3-gun I can use a kydex holster. Fits close to my body and is very secure

Docter cons

Really friggin' expensive. If you want what it has to offer, you are going to pay for it.

C-more pros

Inexpensive and durable

Adjustable dot size

Large window so it is easier to "follow the dot"

C-more cons

Large offset form the bore

Ejection has to be tuned since it covers the port

The dot was not as bright as I would have liked

Certain sun angles produced glare

I burned through a battery per month

Occasional problems with zero shift

I think the window size/FOV criticisms are BS. It's not a rifle scope. With both eyes open, what difference does it make?

With the Docter mounted low on the slide, I get lots of visual feedback from the gun since I can see the top of the slide through the window. It points like a limited gun. Because of this, I find that I shoot it more agressively on close and fast targets.

If I had to pick one reason, I would say gun reliabilty. Not that the Docter is more reliable than the C-more, but that on average the gun was more reliable with the Docter. No matter how well my gun was running with the C-more, there was always the random stovepipe. Once a match, maybe only once every other match, but it was always there. With the Docter, I can run any old once fired brass through the gun. It doesn't care. Beven's best guess was that the variability in 9mm brass dimensions caused eratic ejection patterns. In 2008, I think I had one or two gun malfunctions in 25K rounds.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[719118]

+1 C-More, Aimpoint is heavyer, bigger and blocks more eye visibility. I think there is not much of height difference tho.

[PINMAN44]

Red dots are all personal preference. I just have found that in my experience I like any red dot that is reliable. I can adjust to any dot really quickly. I have found that I love the OKO though. It's reliability is phenomenal and I wish they were selling them still here. Cmore is also a wonderful dot, I love the interchangeability of moa sizes and that they are readily available. I like the tube sights as well. I'm a sucker for The TASCO PDP4, but they dont make them either so darn! The old style bushnell holo I loved but they took that away from the consumer ARG. I would be interested in the small aimpoints if they weren't so damn expensive.

Pretty much I like everything but those are my fav's

Of anyone has any cheap used OKO's that they dont want and work really well PM me and maybe we can work something out, I'm pretty light on cash due to college but I could eventually use a backup otherwise its back to cmore for me.

Thanks

[RiggerJJ]

Pinman,

I've got I think 3 OKOs that are all busted. the STI mount tweaked them and over time the mounting screws broke the plastic threads in the sight. I like OKOs too, but the breakage was just getting too much.

I've been trying to come up with some way of fixing the mount and repairing the broken plastic threaded area, but havn't had time to get to that project. Loading ammo for the upcomming 3 gun season has me busy.

If you have a fix or a work around I'd love to hear it.

jj

[G-ManBart]

No matter how well my gun was running with the C-more, there was always the random stovepipe. Once a match, maybe only once every other match, but it was always there. With the Docter, I can run any old once fired brass through the gun. It doesn't care. Beven's best guess was that the variability in 9mm brass dimensions caused eratic ejection patterns. In 2008, I think I had one or two gun malfunctions in 25K rounds.

If you were having a random stovepipe per match or every other match you should have talked to your gun plumber to get it fixed. It's entirely possible to have a conventional mount and C-more work fine with 9mm, but it does require a little more effort on the part of the smith. Still, anybody shooting 9mm Major needs to be a bit picky about their brass if they want to ensure it'll run.

The new mounts like the Barry and Quinn leave the ejection port totally open and these types of malfunctions go away entirely. They also put the dot pretty close to where it is with a slide mounted optic....varies slightly but they're quite low. I have a Quinn on one gun and I have a Barry that I haven't mounted yet, but they're definitely close to where a front sight would be.

[kimel]

FWIW...C-Mores of many flavors are becoming hard to find. Apparently they have a small per month production capacity and that capacity is being sucked up meaning dealer orders aren't being filled.

I waited to get the C-more for my 9 major project as the last piece figuring availability wasn't an issue. Wrong! I found what I needed but had to get a "click" version (= more $) since I have been taking long enough to gather parts slowly and I'd like to shoot this thing in 2009.

I was told by one dealer that the best way to get a SlideRide right now is to buy a Serendipity and modify it.

Lots of sites appear to have them but then when you try to order you get back ordered.

[G-ManBart]

FWIW...C-Mores of many flavors are becoming hard to find. Apparently they have a small per month production capacity and that capacity is being sucked up meaning dealer orders aren't being filled.

I waited to get the C-more for my 9 major project as the last piece figuring availability wasn't an issue. Wrong! I found what I needed but had to get a "click" version (= more $) since I have been taking long enough to gather parts slowly and I'd like to shoot this thing in 2009.

I was told by one dealer that the best way to get a SlideRide right now is to buy a Serendipity and modify it.

Lots of sites appear to have them but then when you try to order you get back ordered.

Did you try Chuck at SC or Rene' at SSI? Both appear to have them (non-click) and they've always been good about keeping their sites updated. R,

[RH45]

I started with a C-More Serindipity, then went to OKO in 2004. I really liked the bigger "window" on the OKO, and it is brighter than the C-Mores. After seeing another shooters C-More break off at a match, I picked up a spare OKO. I was using my "Shorty" for 3-gun, with minor loads, and even with a blast shield, the gasses turned the top portion of my lens to a rainbow color, which was kind of distracting to look through, so, I bought a used 5" open gun with the idea of using it just for minor loads.

I like the idea of a Barry, or, Quinn mount so that the transition from open to limited is easier, and it gets everything away from the ejection port, but, they sure LOOK goofy!

A friend of mine, that goes by "Fastshooter" on this forum, showed up at a match yesterday with a Burris Fastfire on his open gun, with a mount he made, which I believe is the same 5-hole pattern as most of the C-More mounts, and the scope, and the mount weren't anywhere near the ejection port, and SEEMED to be a lot lower to the bore, as compared to my optics, but, I don't know about that little window.

[kimel]

Did you try Chuck at SC or Rene' at SSI?

Yes, and no, they don't have them either. They all have orders in that are "due any day". This may be only a temporary shortage.

Kinda sucks too because once the open blaster is finished I'm taking the rifle and shotgun to Open for 3 Gun so will need a couple more. Let's hope it is just a temporary thing!

[bgary]

For a slide-ride, try Dillon.

Oh, and welcome to The Dark Side of multigun <bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha>

[larry cazes]

+1 C-More, Aimpoint is heavyer, bigger and blocks more eye visibility. I think there is not much of height difference tho.

Actually you are wrong on ALL of these issues. The weight difference is insignificant (barely an ounce on the XDs), as long as you shoot with a target focus you wont see the tube at all, and the aimpoint dot is much closer to the slide by at least the height of the Cmore housing and the thickness of the mount (an inch or more). But hey, you were close

Edited February 23, 2009 by larry cazes

[B.J. Norris]

Aimpoint Micro is where it's at! Just started shooting one, I was concerned that the small window and dot might be a problem, but it has turned out to be a non-issue. The thing is so bright that it is easy to pick up no matter the light conditions, and if you're shooting in the rain, the Aimpoint dot will NOT flare if the screen gets wet.

Edited February 23, 2009 by B.J. Norris

[larry cazes]

Aimpoint Micro is where it's at! Just started shooting one, I was concerned that the small window and dot might be a problem, but it has turned out to be a non-issue. The thing is so bright that it is easy to pick up no matter the light conditions, and if you're shooting in the rain, the Aimpoint dot will NOT flare if the screen gets wet.

BJ, Who's mount are you using? Got a pic of it?