New Open gun - 9mm or 38 super

[Bigpops]

Ok folks,

First off...I did a search! I read many posts that dated back to early summer. Some very good arguments were made for both back then.

I am heading down that "Open road" and am now at a critical point - do I go 9mm major or 38 super?

I would appreciate your input.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Bigpops

[zhunter]

First of all, I am not an open shooter, but....

I like the idea of a major9 for cost mainly. I know some smiths charge more for major9 builds due to the extra time it takes them to build/tune them.

That said, there are smiths who specialize in major9, I would seek one of them out is you go that route.

Downside, and remember, I am not a open shooter, I believe that major9 reloading is a bitch due to spillage of nearly full cases, but that is only heresay.

[Bigpops]

First of all, I am not an open shooter, but....

I like the idea of a major9 for cost mainly. I know some smiths charge more for major9 builds due to the extra time it takes them to build/tune them.

That said, there are smiths who specialize in major9, I would seek one of them out is you go that route.

Downside, and remember, I am not a open shooter, I believe that major9 reloading is a bitch due to spillage of nearly full cases, but that is only heresay.

Forgive my ignorance...but why is the 9mm harder to tune?

Would you please name (or pm) me some smiths that build the 9mm?

[Thomas Moore]

go with a 5in 9mm. 98% of the problems with 9 major is the ejection. with the offset STI mount, if you go with the cmore, is the way to go. you could also use the doctor sight once it has been bulletpoofed. or try one of the new cmore mounts which put it on a 45 degree angle so the ejection port is open to allow the brass to eject.

[lneel]

The classic Ford vs Chevy question.....I will try to head this one off.

9mm, if you can find a 'smith or know how to make them run, they are just fine.

.38 Super, been around the Open gun game longer, (yes, I know 9x21 and 9x23 have been around as long but Super is more common), seem to be easier to make run, magazines work without spacers for both SV and STI magazines and the larger case allows for more choices in powder.

One of our local GM's built his own 9mm Open gun and uses SV magazines and it runs like a top. His take, and I agree, is at least if you build a 9mm and it doesn't work to your liking it can be reamed out to a Super but you can't go the other way without a new barrel. Buy SV magazines and the whole process to convert is really simple.

With that said, I have 3 Super guns as STI magazines are much more readily available and I like trying fast powders and slow powders as well.

The only other point that comes up is that 9mm brass is more common. I always use new brass for Major matches so there is relatively no difference there. For local matches and practice I seem to be able to pickup as much as I shoot.

[Rolex]

The .9mm open all the way.

Contact Jim Anglin @ jjanglin@msn.com

Sailors Custom Pistols- every one he builds

"RUNS" I shoot with many people who are

shooting Jim's guns- not just open .9mm but

limited also!

[Fireant]

The .9mm open all the way.

Contact Jim Anglin @ jjanglin@msn.com

Sailors Custom Pistols- every one he builds

"RUNS" I shoot with many people who are

shooting Jim's guns- not just open .9mm but

limited also!

That is my advice also. Jaxshooter and I both have open guns from him, and they have run from day one with range pick-up brass. Don't use anything but SV mags also. If you go to the SV site and order them when you order your gun, then you should be fine.

[ExtremeShot]

The first gun I ever completely built myself was a 9mm open gun. It runs great. No ejection problems. It has an STI slide, STI frame, Schuemann barrel, and C-More on an Allchin mount.

D

PS: I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't necessarily take a smith specializing in 9 major. ....I just did a lot of reading before I did anything.

Edited November 18, 2008 by ExtremeShot

[Aristotle]

I run a 5" 9mm Major Open gun with a CMore Serendipity, which sits lower than an offset mount. And now that I have my ammo rite, has been running well, so far.

As has been mentioned, the key is extraction especially if you run a C More. You want your brass to extract almost flat. I have an extended ejector, and a tuned extractor so that it ejects flat. I also shaved a little from the leading edge of my CMore just for good measure.

As for reloading for 9 Major, it's not been any different for me, I don't get splash from indexing, I reload on a 550, so maybe the auto indexing 650 and 1050 are different. YMMV

[lynn jones]

do the math:

$245 for 2000 remington brass

$30-$50 for 9mm brass

if i had to do it all over again, i'd go with the 9mm. brass has just got to expensive.

lynn

[Chris Keen]

Lynn be glad you get 2000 pieces for that price ....... I'm looking at buying 1000 pieces of 40 brass for about that price!

[Matt Cheely]

Lynn be glad you get 2000 pieces for that price ....... I'm looking at buying 1000 pieces of 40 brass for about that price!

I buy it for about $24 a thou, who's ripping you off down there in ohio?

[Matt Cheely]

Suppose I should add my 2 cents as well as drifting the thread.

I build 9mm's, and with a Barry mount there is absolutely no question on the ejection. The shorter case, as well as usually more beat up brass makes tuning the ejection a little harder.

[kgunz11]

Lynn be glad you get 2000 pieces for that price ....... I'm looking at buying 1000 pieces of 40 brass for about that price!

I buy it for about $24 a thou, who's ripping you off down there in ohio?

Sorry for the hijack, but Matt where are you buying .40S&W for $24 per 1k?

[Matt Cheely]

I buy it for about $24 a thou, who's ripping you off down there in ohio?

Sorry for the hijack, but Matt where are you buying .40S&W for $24 per 1k?

Local brass guy. I pick up buckets at a time from him.

[jjanglin]

Well guys I hear some say that the c-more mount needs to be put offset or (etc;)

Im not in aggreement with that, if ya run your ammo at close to 170 P.F.

and use the proper cut and height on your ejector it (9mm major) will be fine

also if ya want to run a sprinco and the like it takes a little more fooling with sometimes,,,,

make sure nothing is rubbing i.e. barrel on the inside of the slide,lube the disconnector

ramp in the slide , use an oil that isnt effected by powder residue. Dont use a bull barrel

this can add some ejection problems and takes longer to tune in my opinion. No advantage

to bull barrels period !! if ya spring the gun right and load a good load, bushing barrels in limited and

cone comps in open.

Jim/Pa

sailors

[caspian guy]

My $.02...

Get the 9mm from a smith who is comfortable building them and you won't have a problem.

I got tired of having to bend down to pick up dimes after I was done shooting. So, I had Joey Hardy (Hardy Custom) re-barrel one of my supers a couple of years ago when the barrel was finally shot out. I haven't looked back since.

Peter Adams

FY-39604

[Neomet]

Aside from making them run, which I do think certainly can be done, I like the variety of powder choices available for Super. Don't think I could get 10.1 of 3N38 stuffed into a 9 case no matter what McGuiver tool I came up with. Load choices is the main difference to me.

[Jeff686]

I WISH my open gun was 9mm.

I hate picking up brass. I feel like a brass whore at the match. It hurts my back. I can't find it half the time. I would much rather spend my time helping tape/reset/scorekeep/RO.

If I was shooting 9mm, I would leave it on the ground. I'd probably still pickup my practice brass, but that is much easier and quicker.

That alone is good enough reason FOR ME. YMMV.

[HSMITH]

9mm all the way. If your smith sets the barrel up right you can have a choice of 8 or 9 powders that will make major easily with no pressure problems of any kind, that is enough for me.

[al503]

Aside from making them run, which I do think certainly can be done, I like the variety of powder choices available for Super. Don't think I could get 10.1 of 3N38 stuffed into a 9 case no matter what McGuiver tool I came up with. Load choices is the main difference to me.

I run 9.6 of 3n38 for my shorty. It's not fun to reload but it's a sweet load (besides the occasional fireball.)

[G-ManBart]

How many of the best shooters are using 9mm Major? If you could have a free supply of brass, which gun would you choose?

I've only shot a handful of 9mm Major Open guns, but I don't like the feel/recoil impulse of them anywhere near as much as I do my Supercomp.

At least a couple of the worlds best 2011 smiths I've talked with told me that in terms of absolute reliability there is no way to make a 9mm as realiable as a Super/Supercomp. Sure, it can get to an acceptable level, but how much is your match performance worth to you? If it's even one half of one percent more reliable, I'll pay for it.

For big matches I only use new or once-fired brass. Okay, so I leave 300 or so on the ground at a big match. New that's roughly $40 worth of brass. If it's once-fired, a bit less. To shoot Area-2 I spent $450 on the hotel, something like $150 on gas, $240 on the entry fee, and maybe $40-50 or so for powder, primers and bullets for the ammo.....that's ballpark $900. Am I going to try and save $25 on less expensive brass and take even a slight risk of a less reliable gun that doesn't feel as good? No freakin' way!

9mm is more limited in powder choices. Sure, there are a variety to pick from, but it's still a smalller list. Shoot my gun with 115gr MG JHPs of 10.5gr of N105 (174pf last week at A-2) and then go shoot anybody else's similarly setup Open gun in 9mm Major and you WILL feel the difference.

9mm requires more work to get reliable mags. They're available, and it's not a big problem, but it's one more thing to consider.

The only thing that 9mm offers is a slight reduction in brass costs. And even that can be minimized to large degree. You can shoot Supercomp cases until they're really, really bad and that simply isn't the case with 9mm. So, if you practice or have local matches where you can recover your brass, you might actually save money in the long run with a Super/SC. 9mm is going to require you replace those cases after a couple of uses.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but if you want the best all-around choice, go with Supercomp and scrimp somewhere else. R,

[kgunz11]

How many of the best shooters are using 9mm Major? If you could have a free supply of brass, which gun would you choose?

I've only shot a handful of 9mm Major Open guns, but I don't like the feel/recoil impulse of them anywhere near as much as I do my Supercomp.

At least a couple of the worlds best 2011 smiths I've talked with told me that in terms of absolute reliability there is no way to make a 9mm as realiable as a Super/Supercomp. Sure, it can get to an acceptable level, but how much is your match performance worth to you? If it's even one half of one percent more reliable, I'll pay for it.

For big matches I only use new or once-fired brass. Okay, so I leave 300 or so on the ground at a big match. New that's roughly $40 worth of brass. If it's once-fired, a bit less. To shoot Area-2 I spent $450 on the hotel, something like $150 on gas, $240 on the entry fee, and maybe $40-50 or so for powder, primers and bullets for the ammo.....that's ballpark $900. Am I going to try and save $25 on less expensive brass and take even a slight risk of a less reliable gun that doesn't feel as good? No freakin' way!

9mm is more limited in powder choices. Sure, there are a variety to pick from, but it's still a smalller list. Shoot my gun with 115gr MG JHPs of 10.5gr of N105 (174pf last week at A-2) and then go shoot anybody else's similarly setup Open gun in 9mm Major and you WILL feel the difference.

9mm requires more work to get reliable mags. They're available, and it's not a big problem, but it's one more thing to consider.

The only thing that 9mm offers is a slight reduction in brass costs. And even that can be minimized to large degree. You can shoot Supercomp cases until they're really, really bad and that simply isn't the case with 9mm. So, if you practice or have local matches where you can recover your brass, you might actually save money in the long run with a Super/SC. 9mm is going to require you replace those cases after a couple of uses.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but if you want the best all-around choice, go with Supercomp and scrimp somewhere else. R,

That's a hard argument to engage in. Well put Sir. I bought my wife a .38 Super and had it tuned to run SC by only tinkering with the extractor.

[CCL]

Well guys I hear some say that the c-more mount needs to be put offset or (etc;)

Im not in aggreement with that, if ya run your ammo at close to 170 P.F.

and use the proper cut and height on your ejector it (9mm major) will be fine

also if ya want to run a sprinco and the like it takes a little more fooling with sometimes,,,,

make sure nothing is rubbing i.e. barrel on the inside of the slide,lube the disconnector

ramp in the slide , use an oil that isnt effected by powder residue. Dont use a bull barrel

this can add some ejection problems and takes longer to tune in my opinion. No advantage

to bull barrels period !! if ya spring the gun right and load a good load, bushing barrels in limited and

cone comps in open.

Jim/Pa

sailors

Listen to this man, he know's his stuff. I know he ain't crazy about major 9's, but he will build you one that flat out runs......at a good price to boot!

ccL

[lcs]

I'll throw in another view. I started with 9 Major. Shooting 38SC now.

Seems to be a fact--Reason to go to 9 major is cost of brass.

A new 9 major gun is at least double a used 38SC and at least a 3 to 6 month wait.

38SC brass is more expensive, but the money you save on buying a used 38SC buys a lot of brass. You can re-barrel to 9 major later.

Practice can be real cheap with a 22 Marvel open, thus using 38SC for matches only. JMHO.