"Race" holster Techniques

[shooting for M]

I made a huge boo boo this past weekend. I switched to Limited class fairly recently and am using a Limcat holster for it. During a match this past weekend I was DQed for dropping a loaded gun. Way my fault, and definately should have been DQed, no arguments, it was definately unsafe.

The stage started seated and you had to stand and run to a porch before engaging any targets. As I stood the gun fell out of my holster. With my SS rig I could run all day and it wouldn't fall out so I didn't really think about it. How are you guys dealing with different start positions with the "race" holsters, specifically a Limcat if you are using one. One suggestion from a shooter that was there was to get your hand on the gun before moving at all. That seems logical but also pretty slow.

Also, is there a tension adjustment that I might have missed? I have the holster placed about like a DOH with a bit of forward cant.

Please save the "Buy a DOH" comments. I know I probably should have, and might in the future, but for now this is what I have and just want to know how I could have prevented this.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

[Jake Di Vita]

Some race holsters are better than others. I personally don't like the Limcat because it only has one point of contact on the gun. With those types of guns you NEED to lock the holster before any movement. That's why I switched to a CR Speed. Unlocking my holster before the draw was one more thing that I didn't need to have in my head and you can move with an unlocked CR Speed pretty safely.

So basically, get used to adding a new movement to your draw, or try a different holster.

[AlamoShooter]

I am old school back to the Safariland after having some -issues - with the ghost type holsters.

I Like the ability to add tension when I want to.

One thing to look out for too is a start that has you dropping to one knee. = If you do it fast the gun will "loft" in the holster as you drop down out from under the gun.

If I have a dropping start to one knee or to prone = I will add tension to keep the gun in place. Jumping up is not as big deal to me.

[Crusher]

I use a modified 012 and the only time it has ever left the holster is when I "whip it out" or when a "young gun" nailed it when he ran into me following the ULSC of an CRO (he was eager to get to pasting). I'm also not a big fan of the Limcat for it's ability to "let go" when unlocked.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I also have dropped a pistol but not in a match. I changed from the Gugas holster I had to a CR Speed and have not had a problem since. I also did buy a Bladetech DOH just in case the Cr Speed didn't work out ;-) Since you dropped it once I would change to another holster NOW. Thanks, Eric

[XRe]

The only reason I don't shoot a Kydex DOH style holster is because I shoot Open... and they don't make a holster that plays well with Open... anyhow...

You have a couple of choices, in the end, though I don't know a lot about the new Limcats. The old ones w/ the pin - I had one of those in the day, and it was a good holster. IIRC, there was a tension adjustment on it, plus a "safety" lock that kept the gun from coming out. I never had a problem with that holster at all. With my current Ghost, I have the same issues you're describing - a fully loaded gun has the potential to drop out of the holster when making sudden movements (running w/ the gun in the holster, getting up, any action that might bump the pistol...). Either become intimately familiar with the locking mechanism on the holster, so that you can bump it off on the draw for those situations, or get used to getting your hand on the gun first before moving...

I haven't had a lot of luck with the first option - I tend to bind the lock lever on my Ghost when I try to disengage it (I tend to pull it towards the side, instead of flip it straight up). So, I grab the gun first. This isn't such a bad thing - if you watch the top dogs, even though they get moving, their hands are generally on the pistol extremely quickly, regardless of the start position and where they're going - even the guys that use a CR Speed (watch video of Chris Tilley from the 2006 Open Nats on Sauls site, for instance).

The ideal option would be a bikini style holster with a complete and race lock option, plus tension adjustment. This gives you the best of all worlds. I'm currently T&Eing the only holster on the market that currently offers all of those features - the Guga Ribas. The CR Speed is probably the next best current option. You can draw fast out of any of them, in the end, really....

[03k64]

I've used a Limcat in seated start stages and I would engage the lock while seated. Flick the lock lever to the unlock position when drawing. Just practice it and you will be fine. I currently use a Ribas holster that is better than the Limcat IMO, due to the tension adjustment and the half lock position.

[sfinney]

LOCK that sucker for anything other than a flat footed speed draw. That what its for.

Oh, and if that doesn't work for ya, buy a DOH.

[JThompson]

I've used a Limcat in seated start stages and I would engage the lock while seated. Flick the lock lever to the unlock position when drawing. Just practice it and you will be fine. I currently use a Ribas holster that is better than the Limcat IMO, due to the tension adjustment and the half lock position.

Ribas is the shit....

[Chris Keen]

I love my Ghost holster. It has a half-lock position to use for those types of starts. Flip the lever with your trigger finger, and your off. But with that said when I go to practice and I'm walking around UNLOADED pasting targets or loading mags, I like to just put the gun in the holster without locking it in anyway. Just to get used to how much movement I can get away with. It's not scientific, but it makes me a little more comfortable with my gun & my gear.

[JThompson]

I love my Ghost holster. It has a half-lock position to use for those types of starts. Flip the lever with your trigger finger, and your off. But with that said when I go to practice and I'm walking around UNLOADED pasting targets or loading mags, I like to just put the gun in the holster without locking it in anyway. Just to get used to how much movement I can get away with. It's not scientific, but it makes me a little more comfortable with my gun & my gear.

I lock mine down... I already watched it hit the ground with my CR speed once.

[WARDOG]

Last match I attended, two competitor dropped guns with ghost holsters.

I use a Bladetech DOH, or (like in my last match) a blackhawk SERPA holster with lock removed and bladetech DOH belt hanger.

[rishii]

here a hint for the guys using the ghost holster.

if you remove the superlocker position, you can do a locked draw just as fast as an unlocked one.

the superlocker is when the lever is locked in the up position, and I've done locked draws where I hit the lever on the draw hard enough where it skipped past the unlocking, strait to the superlocker and gave myself the mother of all superwedgies.

to remove it, you just backoff the allen screws and remove the locking lever, spring, ball bearing, brass bushing. screwed into the holster is a brass tube with 2 T-slots cut in it. file or dremel away the superlocker portion of the slot, and re-assemble.

now should you do a locked draw, hit the locking lever as you grip the gun, and the locking lever once it unlocks, will just kinda flop around and will never give you a wedge again.

oh and just to answer the question, on any stage requiring movement prior to the draw, or a seated start, I start with the holster locked.

[blkbrd]

While I love the Limcat I used for years, while I was really practicing hard to get my M card I threw the gun on the ground a few to many times.

My problem wasnt with moving or seated starts, as the lock is great and you can go from totaly locked to unlocked with a flick of the finger. It was practice with standing speed shoots where I would hit the gun aggressivly and a bit wrong and it would end up jumping onto the ground.

Have since switched to a CR Speed, a bit slower at the fastest but the little bit of resistance gives me a more consistant grip improving the stage overall.

[shooting for M]

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like starting with the holster locked for odd starts seems to be the best option, I better start practicing. One quick question: If you are sometimes starting with the holster locked, do you always use the unlocking motion in your draw? That seems to be more consistant, or do you actually have two different draw strokes?

Thanks,

Jason

[Lee King]

Did almost exactly what you did at a recent sectional Championship. Went from L10 using a single stack 1911 in a CR speed to an STI in limited with same holster. I could never get the holster adjusted right. Tried every combination of shim out there and it was either way too tight or too loose. Start position was closing a car door to activate movers. The door was a little stiff so I gave it a good shove. I guess my hip snapped enough during the shove for the gun to end-over with a 1/2 gainer and a twist. Moved my hand to draw and no gun.

I switched to a Ghost because a. the new model doesn't require drilling b. I like the ability to lock it up (lever out of the way) or down where I can hit it on the draw. Even with my CR speed locked I could yank it out. Had the side-swinging rear door on my wife's SUV swing closed and knock my 1911 out of it in the parking lot of a match. Fortunately because it was unloaded and I called for an RO to pick it up no DQ. I didn't really see a fast way to leave the CR speed locked and unlock it during the draw like you can the ghost (and as I understand it, the Gubas too)

After the CR speed troubles I was very nervous about the Ghost. But I have jumped, twisted, snapped my hip as hard as I could (my 6yr old though that was hilarious), hit, whacked, bumped and I can't get the gun to fall out from locked position with the Ghost. Even unlocked I couldn't get it to come out even though I know it will with the right movement (unless I bump the muzzle). So as long as the stage calls for a "normal" draw I start unlocked. Anything else, kneeling, moving, lying/sitting down I put the lock on in the "down" position.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Lee King

[Chris Keen]

The half-lock position of the Ghost requires flipping a little lever to release, which I consider no different than opening a door, or retrieving some object off a table ..... it's an oddity that is required of us in order to complete the COF. I just remember to flip the lever during the draw & just like an oddity in the middle of a stage - it just happens.

No need to practice that. Besides your trigger finger shouldn't be doing anything else at that time of your draw.

ETA: I don't trip the lever with my trigger finger, but my middle finger. Hmmmm ..... perhaps I don't even think about it when doing so.

Edited June 4, 2008 by CHRIS KEEN

[Wakal]

I like my Limcat very much...the draw from "locked" is easy and impossible to overrun to "superlocked" (because there isn't such a critter on a Limcat ). If I'm not standing and drawing, the holster gets locked.

For 3-Gun, I use a Bladetech DOH fitted to my Bedell STI Open gun. I took a standard 6" DOH and remolded it with a propane torch to fit around the scope mount (and opened the bottom to allow the last 1/4" of comp to hang out)...works great.

Alex

[pjb45]

I had a Safariland 012. I just never felt comfortable (confident) with it. I have a bunch of other Safariland holsters that I will not trade for anything. But their 012 just made me uneasy. I sold it to a friend who loves it.

I got my Ghost from Matt Burkett. I have never looked back!! I do not worry about it coming out accidently. As previously said, in the lock/draw position, it is easy to unlock when drawing but it stays secure when sitting or laying down. Best investment I made.

[Kingman]

with the limcat I definitely use a locked holster on anything but flat footed starts.

You really get to a point that you can unlock it without a lot of thought because of how the locking mechanism is set up. It is in a position that you can easily hit it with the thumb going for the draw. Add on that when it is locked, the gun is NOT coming out.

[Flexmoney]

It sure sounds like our race holsters are a pain in the ass/accident waiting to happen. Especially since we only get a few real "race" draws in any given match.

Race holsters can shine in Steel Challenge (stand still and draw a lot). Not so much ulitity in USPSA/IPSC.

[Glen517]

The ghost is a good holster when you use the half lock position. On the draw your hand just naturally unlocks it when you grab the gun.But it's locked while seated, running or whatever till you need it. I love mine too.

[XRe]

On the draw your hand just naturally unlocks it when you grab the gun.

Unless you bind the lock... which I seem to do... every time I try it under pressure. Then it sucks total ass.

[openshooter]

I use a CR speed holster with an Arredondo "platform," where the muzzle touches the holster.

http://www.arredondoaccessories.com/catego...quj&GID=CRS

I've never had any problems while moving, even when the holster is unlocked.

[ap38]

At the Nationals in 2005, I think it was, a shooter loaded, and then sat on the couch for the dark house stage. His gun slipped out of the holster when the muzzle hit the couch. He was done without firing a single shot, for the entire match. It was a Ghost Holster. That made a lot of us think and hold on when we sat down. FWIW, I like some cover on the muzzle, another point of contact. 012 with an Arredondo muzzle platform.

ap