Scoring Results Posted

[warpspeed]

For me, as long as there up by Thursday, I'm OK. I understand people have other things to do and jumping through hoops just to get them up same day is not a reasonable expectation regardless.

[kdj]

USB Memory Key. Those things rock for transferring stats.

And that had been my plan!

Remember the phrase "antiquated laptop" ... no USB port. Only a floppy drive, and I had no machine at home that could read a floppy.

One day, there'll be decent high speed wireless networks every where and no one will understand stories like this

Kevin

[Rob Boudrie]

Moreover, I also respectfully remind you that scores are available equally on a PC or a PDA "in about 5 minutes" from when the final score is entered on either the "master" PC or PDA. And you've really got to see IPSC's dynamic duo of Jayne & Rita enter scores - awesome.

You obviously have a system that works - but I can assure you there is no way I would be able to get the staff at Area 7 to have results out in 5 minutes, including printing and manual verification of all scores for correct data entry before posting, if we used manual data entry. From the competitors point of view, a 5 minute delay is a 5 minute delay - no matter how the match manages to provide that service, accurate results in 5 minutes represents a job well done.

Moving off the Palm topic...

When you are trying to get result up in a time measured in minutes rather than tens of minutes or longer, the printing of results becomes a major obstacle. At the Area 7 (190 shooters, 8 stages), the final printed results for all stages, divisions and overall ran 86 pages.

This presents a few problems:

1. Even a fast printer takes time to print that many sheets (figure 4 minutes with a 17ppm printer; much longer if you've borrowed an old or cheap printer from a member)

2. It takes even longer to post them - if you figure 2 minutes to get your stuff together and 6 seconds a sheet (with overhead, removal of the previous version of the results, etc.) and you've got another 11 minutes.

So, posting paper results will increase a 5 minute latency (possible with Palm OR manual data entry to) to 5+4+11 (20) minutes or more, a fourfold increase. And that's assuming no glitches in printing, finding the stats stapler that some RO took to use on a stage, etc. 5 vs. 20 minutes may not sound like a lot, but it can mean the difference between a shooter coming from the range finding his/her scores are waiting and having to wait a bit.

Posting results on an in-house network can reduce the posting time to 2 minutes or less. Granted, the time may be a bit longer with MSS since it does not have the integrated posting feature of EzWinScore (feel free to correct me if I am wrong), but it still should be simple.

We did this at the Area 7 by setting up an in-house web server at the clubhouse with 3 systems running web browsers to provide workstations for competitors to check their scores, and a 4 port wireless network router (the 3 systems and web server were hard wires, and we used wireless ot the laptop). The browser clients can be old systems (ours were ancient), as long as they have a web browser and ethernet connection.

This allowed us to upload results the way they vote in Chicago - frequenlty and often.

For example, when I first ran the final results at A7 I had a couple of missing scoresheets (one of which turned out to be someone who did not shoot the stage, and the other was quickly recovered from paper backup). Since people were on the way to the club from the ranges and we wanted results quickly, I posted the results to the network; resolved the missing scoresheet issue (a 5 minute job); and posted again.

At a nationals or World Shoot, it would be possible to have stats upload their current stage results to an in-house network every hour on the hour. Add a DNS server to the web server and configure your wireless appropriately, and members can even get near-real time results on their own laptop.

The key point is that it possible to have results posted and *available to shooters* within 5-10 minutes of a match - anything less is not the "best" possible service. Remember, the time is measured from the last shot to the time the shooter can actually check their score (you don't get to stop the clock when you printer starts)

[Vince Pinto]

At a nationals or World Shoot, it would be possible to have stats upload their current stage results to an in-house network every hour on the hour.  Add a DNS server to the web server and configure your wireless appropriately, and members can even get near-real time results on their own laptop.

Sure, and many major IPSC matches have been doing that for a long time. IIRC, the first time we had "read only" monitors set-up for competitors was at the 1999 World Shoot in Cebu. You could lookup results at the range or at the official match hotel, and you could check by final results or by stage.

The problem is the tendency for people to hog the limited number of match-supplied monitors and keyboards while they verify their results, versus having paper results spread out over a whole bunch of walls, so that we have a "food kitchen" line.

Slightly returning to the PDA Vs PC thing, when I referred to "5 minutes", I mean that both hardware items calculate the final results equally as quickly from when you hit the "We're done entering, show me the money" button. Yes, printing of paper results is invariably slow for the majors, and video viewing is ultimately the way to go but having a sufficient bank of monitors to cover the size of your audience costs money too. The 800 or so competitors at a WS will still climb over each other, regardless of whether we have paper results or monitors.

Sadly very few people bring their laptops to check results on the Internet from the comfort of their own rooms, and even fewer have PDAs, although I agree that buying a PDA is still a cheaper alternative for those who have neither.

[Flexmoney]

Rob...Vince...what does ANY of this have to do with the shooter who started this thread? He is asking about getting results from a local match...you two are talking about running Majors with a lot more resources. Start a thread please.

[moderating hat off]

[Jim Norman]

I am posting a poll regarding when results are available to the competitors.

[Rob Boudrie]

OK, I'll answer on-topic:

Local clubs in the northeast US vary tremendously in posting times, varying from

1 day to a couple of weeks.

[Rob Boudrie]

What is a 'reasonable' time frame to expect match results?

What is "reasonable" is results posted within the timeframe promised by match organizers.

If people made it known this was a consideration when deciding which matches to shoot, I bet the situation would, on average, improve.

[JFD]

With my local match, I get the results out the same day. Sometimes I'll e-mail the results the day of the match, then post them on my website the next day.

With all the crap involved in putting on a match, scoring is the least troublesome. I can sit at home drinking beer in air-conditioned comfort, so I've never thought of it as a chore at all.

I've seen a stats guy running all over the range before, trying to shoot the match as well as keep entering data, and I'm not about to become THAT guy.

I shot a local match Saturday that had the results e-mailed to us by Monday evening. Not too bad.

[Flexmoney]

If people made it known this was a consideration when deciding which matches to shoot, I bet the situation would, on average, improve.

Great point. Maybe a little "intervention" at the shooter's meeting.

[Jim Norman]

I'm with JFD, I already get there three hours before the first shot and stay 2-3 hours after the last to put it away, then I go home and do the scores. normally they are up day after. Very rarely they are delayed a day or so if work intervenes.

Jim

[rhino]

I feel a little guilty if I don't go home right away after the match and get the scores done within an hour or so of when I arrive at my house.

[scorch]

At the Double Tap Ranch in Wichita Falls, Texas at our Club match we average 6-7 stages with 25-35 Shooters Per match about 150 rnds. I shoot thru the stages and then do the Scores. I have figured Out the As Soon as Everyone has Shot say stage 1 I can go in and Caulate that stage and Print it out and hang it on the board so Our Stats are done about 3 Minutes after the last shot and Posted on range. Guys LOVE bantering about this stage and that while we finish up the last stage. on the web page by 2-3 hours after the match 98% of the time

[wooddog]

I do the scores at Bass River and try to get them out within a day or so but sometimes get them in a bit slower.

Thread drift...

I get my girlfriend to read the numbers to me. Pretty funny... now she even comments on the results and has never even been to a match.

[Chris Keen]

Like Rhino, I do the scores THE SAME DAY of the match. That way it's over and done with, so I can kick back and relax. It only takes 1-2 hours to do them if you do it right away, and don't fart around.

Like Nike says ............. Just Do It.

[kgunz11]

I shot at the XYZ club and the scores aren't posted yet. Been over a week now. There was a big-to-do about proper score keeping before the match so that results could be tallied and posted quicker. It must not have helped. ZYX and XYZ are about the same in how long it takes them to post scores (none of mine posted in less than a week). They are 2 of 3 matches that are within 3 hours of me. The other match is in Tallahassee Florida and D. Mueller gets his scores emailed out on match day and on USPSA the following day. I don't understand why the other clubs can't do it, but if I stop attending because they are latent at posting scores I'd not have anything even remotely close to shoot. And none of them are closer than 100 miles. I wish I lived in one of those "match rich environments"!

Edited June 3, 2008 by ima45dv8
Club name(s) removed

[PHolsted]

I would think a 48 hour turnaround should be the norm to have them e-mailed or posted to a club website and either mailed or uploaded to USPSA's website.

I run mostly IDPA matches but had the same turn around time for the USPSA matches when our club was shooting them.

[kgunz11]

It's too bad USPSA can't implement a policy on this. They choose not to get involved.

[-JQ-]

I too am frustrated by this.

[dajarrel]

After being in a club that used to take a week or more for results, when the opportunity came up I volunteered to do the stats. I typically try to get them out the same day but sometimes will not get them until the next morning.

As I'm sure has been said in this thread somewhere, volunteer to do them yourself, or at least offer to help. Sometimes just offering to help will encourage the scoremeister to hurry the process along.

FWIW

dj

[Rob Boudrie]

It's too bad USPSA can't implement a policy on this. They choose not to get involved.

What kind of policy are you suggesting, and what penalty do you suggest USPSA impose on a club that is not able to meet the performance standard set forth by such a policy?

Policies are useful only if they can actually be followed - otherwise it's like making a policy that rain is not allowed on match day. Not all clubs have someone who can either do stats on site, or get to them as soon as they get home.

[kgunz11]

I guess I'll volunteer to start doing them myself. I'm thinking the guys doing it shouldn't have a problem as they act like it's a big hassle as it is.

As far as the policy goes, threaten to revoke their memberships if they cannot post scores in a timely manner. Do these clubs not pay to be a member of USPSA? I'd think they pay the fee (if there is one) because they want to be a part of USPSA and in order to remain a member in good standing the club will appoint someone responsible for posting the scores.

I could do them on match day if the club want someone to do it and wouldn't mind doing it. Some folks on the local club level might like having total control and that would include them handling the scoring. The last ZYX match was May 18th and it drew a total of 8 shooters in all classes combined. I don't know why only 8 people showed up for that match, but the club might need to ask themselves that very same question. That's a lot of set up for just 1 squad.

Edited June 3, 2008 by ima45dv8
Club name(s) removed

[bberkley]

We have a computer for our club, and a person usually there to do stats. That person gets $1.50 per shooter. Sometimes its me, most of the time we have someone who is not shooting that does stats.

I have my results template file, and a USB memory stick, and I normally do my stats page edits while the Match Director goes over the results and hands out ribbons. Then when I get home, I upload them to the server and write a little blurb about the match. I'll also take the USPSA file and upload it electronically and pay the fees online the same day. Recently my attendance has been spotty, so I am dependent on getting the match database emailed to me, then I post results and the MD takes care of the USPSA fees.

We had 2 large matches back-to-back this weekend, and I had results online within an hour and a half of the match conclusion both days. If I had broadband access at the club, I could upload results before ever leaving the range.

Our club site is: http://www.arpc-ipsc.org and our match results have a static page at: http://matchresults.arpc-ipsc.org.

My opinion is that timely results are part of our responsibility in hosting a match, and our MD concurs.

IMHO, if you have a teenager that can follow directions and wants some pocket money but isn't interested in shooting, take them to the range with a laptop and have them do the scores and pay them a buck a shooter or something.

[ima45dv8]

I guess I'll volunteer to start doing them myself.

Bobby, I volunteer to do exactly that almost every month. They have emailed results, but you might not be on their mailing list. If you'll PM me your email address I'll send them one with you in copy just to be sure you're on it in the future. I'll also forward you the results I received.

I think the reason their score keeper does it this way is so someone can have a chance to point out any verifiable errors before posting. Different strokes...

[kgunz11]

I guess I'll volunteer to start doing them myself.

Bobby, I volunteer to do exactly that almost every month. They have emailed results, but you might not be on their mailing list. If you'll PM me your email address I'll send them one with you in copy just to be sure you're on it in the future. I'll also forward you the results I received.

I think the reason their score keeper does it this way is so someone can have a chance to point out any verifiable errors before posting. Different strokes...

PM sent.