Vince Pinto

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” Theodore Roosevelt.

You just never quit, do you Mr. Turner? Your obsession with, and hatred of, me are obviously a huge part of your life. I must've done something terrible to you but I don't recall. In any case, please, go ahead, continue with the attacks.

Hey Gary, I hope you've been keeping well. Your help and guidance when I was drafting IPSC Classic Division rules was invaluable. Sorry about the dumb questions, and thanks for your patience!

Yet I don't see you saying "thanks for your service to our sport" or "great work on achieving something that nobody else has ever achieved" or "everybody said your plan would fail, but you persisted and made it happen". No Sir. Always look for the perceived dirt, even though the commissions were public knowledge. Is our sport any better due to your comments? Clearly, my getting US$57,000 in commissions over a period of 5 years is disgraceful. I've spent more in that time on lunches. I don't need a medal, and I don't need a hug, but it would be nice, really nice if once, just once in 17 years here, I was not personally attacked and vilified for what the rest of the IPSC World thinks is quite a accomplishment. I know, wishful thinking, but I'm an optimist.

Yep. No matter what, I'm guilty. Business as usual here.

Yep, as usual, my participation in any thread here invariably becomes about me. The obsession and hatred hasn't waned one iota since I joined in 2002. It's no joke. For starters, my commission was no secret. Secondly, I didn't "take it". It was offered to me as compensation for the considerable expenses I incurred in raising the money. This included numerous airfares, hotel accommodations and some wining and dining to convince potential Patrons to sign up and part with their money. I also conceived the program, and I spent five years actively working on it. And during my 25 years with IPSC, I never asked for, nor was i ever given, a salary. Do you also object to Range Officers getting compensation? What about USPSA Executives and staff? How much have you raised to bolster the USPSA balance sheet?

So, now you want to make this about me? That didn't take long. Did Andy Hollar's or Mike Voigt's (RIP) or John Amidon's chapter close when they no longer had official HQ positions in the USPSA? What about the numerous Area Directors who no longer serve in that capacity? I'm still actively involved with IPSC. I have been, every day, for 25 years, and I have no intention of withdrawing. In respect of the GAISF application, I single-handedly submitted our official application in 2015, which took 7 days a week for 6 weeks to assemble the 470 pages of supporting documentation that had to be included. I also single-handedly raised the US$570,000 war chest which enabled us to pursue this dream. I therefore hope it's OK with you that I continue to use the words "we" and "us".

What does it cost?

Yet you know so much about it. I'm truly impressed.

The Classic Target was factually, not ostensibly, introduced as an alternative to regions who demanded it. At the time, Germany was using a Metric Target with two heads, in order to avoid any problems with their government, while Australia found it politically expedient to cut off the heads. Other regions were facing similar political pressures. And the suggestion that the Classic Target was the first step towards a devious plan to retire the Metric Target was the figment of the tinfoil hat imagination of a guy in Massachusetts who objected to the very existence of IPSC. There was no such plan. Once again, I was in the room when the matter was discussed. The logical fallacy "Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc" applies. However, the Classic Target proved to be considerably more popular worldwide than the Metric, with one major reason being its reduced size. As a result, when the Motion came up at the 2008 General Assembly, the outcome was not even close: 42 Yea votes versus 5 Nay votes (one of the latter was the USA).

One more thing: IPSC did not retire the Metric (headed) Target until 2008, long after all the Olympic hoopla.

Also with respect, you obtained your information third or fourth hand. I was there in the room, at the pointy end of the spear, and that article is complete and utter nonsense. We had one meeting with Gilbert Felli, and it was he who advised us to go the GAISF route. We did not try to persuade anybody of anything. It was just an exploratory meeting. And here's a clue to the inaccuracy of the article: the organisation name did not change from combat shooting. The organisation was called Practical Shooting from Day 1. Fake news was around long before Trump, but he certainly nailed them with the moniker.

The story got twisted and took on a life of its own. Our friends at IPSC Greece informed us that IPSC would be able to put on a demonstration match for the IOC, in conjunction with the 2004 Olympics in Greece. We were very sceptical, but they were so insistent, we said OK, that would be great, and we notified all regions of the possibility. As it turned out, it was indeed a pipe dream, as we suspected. The IOC decided to cancel all demonstration sports for 2004, so it was never a real starter.

Double tap.

We were rejected twice previously, but that was solely due to the ISSF objecting under the "competing sport" rules at those times. Apart from their hatred of IPSC style shooting, which is far more exciting, which might affect their growth, they were worried that we would somehow lessen the funding they obtain from the IOC. However, for us, this has nothing to do with money. We continue to pursue GAISF membership, because there is now little to no weight given to the former "competing sport" rule. It's a very long and arduous process, and we continue to plod along. We have a sizeable war chest, so all we need is patience. A lot of patience.

Fake news. IPSC never expected or applied to become an Olympic sport. The only thing we sought was membership of the GAISF (aka Sport Accord), which would merely give us IOC recognition. If granted, this would be a huge benefit for our member regions, but with little to zero cost.

What does that have to do with anything? Perhaps your knowledge and experience is vastly superior to mine, but "top-notch shooters" are rarely a problem for Range Officers. They're invariably the safest competitors, they're the most conversant with the rules, and they're the easiest to process. It's the A-D grade competitors who are responsible for the overwhelming majority of safety and other infractions.

IROA has a lower barrier entry than US ROs? Say what?? To apply to become an IROA Member, you must firstly have a few years experience as a National RO, and have attended an IROA Level I Range Officer Seminar. You also must have earned at least 15 points working 5 x Level III or higher matches. Then you need to obtain references from three existing IROA members who know you personally to support your application. Your application is then vetted by the IROA Executive Committee. See: http://www.ipsc.org/officials/iroaApp.php Once you've jumped through all those hoops, if everything seems to be in order, you become a Provisional Member, but then you need to work an additional 2 x Level III or higher matches under the direct supervision of an existing IROA member who serves as your mentor and supervisor. They send their reports about your performance to IROA. If all that goes well, your application goes to the IROA Executive Committee (again) for final approval. If admitted as a Full Member, you must work a minimum of 1 x Level III match each year in order to remain a member. You also need high marks on the performance report submitted after each match by the officiating Range Master. Now since you say that IROA has a lower barrier entry, kindly tell me about the higher, more stringent threshold requirements in the USA.

It is disrespectful for one IROA member to describe his IROA colleagues as being sub-par when compared to US based ROs. The only reason I posted here is because you wrote: "..... in my experience US-based ROs get waaaaaaaay more high-level competitive work experience than ROs outside the US, and thus are typically more polished and conversant with the rules and competitor management strategies ..... I can say, without fear of contradiction, is that an RO who works matches in Argentina, Macau, Italy, France and Zimbabwe deals with considerably greater differences and challenges than someone who only works in (say) California, Illinois, Florida, Texas and Louisiana. Bottom line: it's not cool for one RO to publicly disparage other ROs, especially those from the same cadre. Vince Pinto IROA Range Master

I'm no longer a regular contributor here but, after this thread was brought to my attention, I am compelled to respond to your comment that US-based ROs get more high-level competitive work than their foreign counterparts? Seriously? What are you smoking? In the US, do you frequently have Level III matches with 700-1,000 competitors as IPSC does? Do you have Level IV matches where at least 75% of the competitors do not use English as their native language? Do you have matches where the ROs must work 7 days in a row? Did you work the last IPSC World Shoot in Florida where only 1 of 1,400 competitors filed an Arbitration (against a Procedural Penalty!) which was denied? Considering that the 67 DQs issued were unchallenged, this tells me that the affected competitors accepted the competency of the ROs. Have you ever actually worked an IPSC match outside of North America? If not, how can you possibly know the challenges faced by the ROs, or their dedication, or their work ethic, or their knowledge, or the pressures they face, or their competency? You've been in IROA for 15 minutes and you're an expert? If you'd like a realistic view from an American IROA who has been around since dirt was invented, contact John Amidon. He certainly knows his ass from his elbow and will set you straight. You can also try Mike Carraher or Chris Thomas.

Hi folks, I haven't posted here since 2004 but, with IPSC World Shoot XVII in Florida looming large on the horizon, and considering the fact that I am already being inundated with the same questions, mostly from Americans, I thought an FAQ might be useful here. 1. There will be a grand total of 1,152 slots for the Main Match distributed to our 93 Regions worldwide. This is based on a maximum match capacity of 72 squads, each containing 16 competitors (this allows for 4 full teams in a squad). If a team only has 3 members, the vacancy in the squad cannot be filled by another non-team competitor. 2. There will be no self-squadding. Initially, squads are organised by seeding, depending on how teams placed at the last World Shoot. For example, in Open Division at the 2011 World Shoot in Greece, the top 4 teams were USA, France, Australia and the Czech Republic respectively. Assuming they each field teams again for Florida, those 4 teams will be squadded together, even if the members of the teams are different. If, for argument's sake, one of those 4 Regions does not field an Open team, then the 5th placing team from the last World Shoot gets bumped up and so on. 3. After we squad by seeding, the next priority are squadding requests from Regional Directors. Lastly, we will do our best to honour squadding requests from individual competitors. We usually make everyone happy, but there are no guarantees. Note that due to various factors, squadding is usually not completed until about a week before the match. At the 2011 World Shoot, we were still making changes the evening before the Main Match commenced, thanks to a bunch of lost guns enroute, rolling strikes by Greek workers (including Customs and Police!), people missing connections and various other issues beyond our control. 4. Each Region is restricted to one team per division (Open, Standard, Classic, Production, Revolver) and/or category (Lady, Junior, Senior). We don't allow Gold and Silver teams in the same division or category from the same Region. At the moment we do not recognise Super Senior teams, but we will be raising this issue at the 2013 IPSC Assembly to be held in Thailand in November, and I am quietly confident they will be approved in time for Florida. 5. The Main Match goes for 6 days (13-18 October 2014), and everyone shoots either morning or afternoon the first day, then alternate to the other session the next day and so on. However, everyone only shoots for 5 days (6 stages per day, for a total of 30 stages), with 1 day off. This means some competitors have a break midway, while others do not shoot the first or last day of the match. 6. The Pre-Match goes for 3 days (8-10 October 2014), and everyone shoots 10 stages, full day, for 3 days. However, the Pre-Match is exclusively for Regional Directors, Match Officials, IPSC Patrons and Match Sponsors (see IPSC Rule 6.6.2). No exceptions! Note that if you are a member of an official Regional Team, you cannot shoot the Pre-Match. You must shoot with the rest of your team members in the same squad in the Main Match (see IPSC Rule 6.6.2.1). 7. Other dates are 2014 IPSC Assembly on 11 October, Opening Ceremony on 12 October, and the Awards Dinner on 19 October. 8. Slots will be released to Regions towards the end of 2013, and they are distributed strictly on pro-rata basis. The number of slots each Region will obtain is calculated by using the average number of members reported and paid to IPSC in the previous 3 years (2011, 2012, 2013). And, no, the host Region does not get extra slots. 9. Regardless of the actual membership of a Region, reporting to IPSC is capped at 2,000 members per annum. We currently have 9 Regions (Brazil, Canada, Germany, Greece, Italy, Norway, Philippines, Russia, USA) which each report the maximum. No guarantees, but I predict these 9 Regions should each get 60 slots (roughly 47% of the total). If you do the math, you will note that the slot allocation should be 3%. In other words, your Region should get 3 slots for every 100 members reported and paid to IPSC. 10. Slots are not transferable from one Region to another. You use them or lose them. If any of the initial slots released to Regions are returned, they will be reallocated pro-rata to those Regions which have requested additional slots. Based on past experience, very few slots are returned, and I doubt there will be more than a handful this time around, if any, but I expect requests for additional slots will be huge. 11. Each Region internally decides how they distribute the slots they are allocated. For American residents, this means the USPSA decides how to allocate its slots. Also note that slot qualification is based on residency, not citizenship (see IPSC Rule 6.5.1). For example, I'm an Australian living in Hong Kong, so if I wanted a slot, I would need to apply to IPSC Hong Kong, my Region of residence. 12. Defending divisional world champions from the last World Shoot are guaranteed a slot over and above slots allocated to their Region, but it's not a freebie! For example, if the USA gets 60 slots, Bob Vogel (reigning IPSC Production Division World Champion) gets a slot which is not drawn from the 60, if he wants to defend his title in the same division, but he still has to pay for it. And, no, this special slot is not transferable. BTW, as a result of the elimination of Modified Division, there are only 4 defending world champion slots available (Open, Standard, Production, Revolver) for Florida (there was no Classic Division at the 2011 World Shoot). 13. Category winners (e.g. Open Junior, Standard Senior, Production Lady World Champion etc.) do not enjoy this special privilege. 14. Match Registration, which will not open until all registration fees have been received, is handled by Regional Directors, not by individual competitors. It's tough enough dealing with 93 Regions, let alone over a thousand individuals. 15. As far as Range Officers are concerned, there will be at least 1 IROA Official per stage, 1 IROA Official supervising each Area (containing 6 stages), and an IROA Range Master. If you are an NROI Official, and you are interested in working the match, you need to register your interest with John Amidon. Note that IROA officials who are not selected during the match call-up cannot work the match under NROI terms without the prior approval of IROA. I think that covers the most common questions. I'll pop back in a week or so to see if any questions have arisen which I have not already answered. PS: Moderators, if you think it is worthwhile, perhaps you might consider pinning this thread.

Flex, I hereby withdraw from the Enos Forums. Farewell.

[edited: for "stupid" comments] Nobody would do so at home, and nobody is going to so on a stage when I'm Sheriff. Call the RM, call your Congressman, call the President, send the Marines, whatever, but a gamer looking for a silly edge is not going to make me forget about the bigger picture, namely my overriding responsibility to maximise safety.

I think Shooter Grrl is right. I once played Santa outside a department store, and I shortened the usual greeting in order to sound more manly. When the first sexy girl walked past and I just said "Ho", she slapped me ....

Hi folks, Please see this thread for related (and updated) information about passing through the USA on the way to WSXIV. USPSA members actually residing in the USA should visit the member's area of the USPSA website for an announcement from USPSA President Mike Voigt in respect of applications for slots from the USPSA quota (ask him, not me!).