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Scoring Results Posted


BDH

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What would you say would be a timely manner in getting your match results.

I shoot at a club that does not give out prizes of any kind.(no payouts, prizes, trophies, plaques or ribbons) It costs $20.00 to shoot and they only give you your results.

Now don't get me wrong, they put on a fun match. Usually 6 or 7 stages of 3gun fun.

You would think they would post the results within a few days or even a week. But the match was on June 13 and still no results. Most of the time it takes a month to get results.

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Having the results posted within a week isn't too much to ask for in my opinion. My club will have them on their website sometimes within 3 hours of the end of the match, or within a day or two at the VERY most. I know how you feel. Even worse is when you NEVER see the results, and they don't send in the classifiers. I have run into that a few times. :angry:

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You would think they would post the results within a few days or even a week.  But the match was on June 13 and still no results.  Most of the time it takes a month to get results.

Frankly, I'm amazed. I can't recall a single match of any level in the past 10 years where match results weren't available the same day, and more often than not within an hour or three of the last shot being fired. And, no, we don't have paid help - it's invariably a volunteer, who may or may not be a competitor.

Even at a World Shoot, we only have 1 Stats Director and maybe 5 input volunteers, and they manage to have provisional results for 800 competitors who shot 35 stages (that's 28,000 scoresheets or 5,600 per day!) ready within 1 hour after the last shot was fired. Mind you, these are the "best of the best", but I've served as RM for a 120 competitor match and I entered half the scores at lunchtime and the other half within 2 hours of the last shot.

I just don't get it ..............

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You need to shoot a match with Kimel in attendance. The guys drives farther than I do and the damned results are online about the time I pull in the driveway. There's just no reason to wait that long in the laptop era.

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There are a lot of reasons for occasional late-posting of club match results, but continued long delays is a sign of not enough help or not well enough equipped help. Ask what you can do to help out.

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All of you guys getting stats same day should consider yourselves fortunate. I shoot at 2 different clubs. One club gets them out the next day and the other sometime midweek. I don't have the time to "putup" so I keep "shutup". I'm happy to see the scores when they are available.

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I do the scores for our regular monthly match as well as our two practice sessions. Along with a fairly large group of very dedicated volunteers, we start building our match at around 0700, we get the first shot off usually by 1015, we then tear down and put away the match and are normally scarffing Pizza by 1700.

After that I drive nearly an hour home and start on the scores for 60 shooters for 7 stages AND a side match. Most of the time I get the scores up Monday night for review and on the web the next night.

If I had a dedicated stats person that could do the entry on the range, we could get the scores out the same day. I personally do not own a laptop. If anyone wants to volunteer one or better yet, their time, I am open to that.

We also have another little impediment to on the range scoring. We are remote from the world, no electricity and no phone. Yes, I know there is Wi-Fi or whatever its called to access the net without a landline, but not having the laptop in the first place makes that moot.

I applaud all of you that are able to get the scores out with in an hour of the last shot at a local match. I have a couple questions, do you have seperate scoresheets for each stage? Do your shooters bring the completed scoresheets up to stats as they finish stages? Do you send a runner out for them? I make the assumption that you generally have power and a connection available as well.

Maybe it would be informative to poll the group as to when the scores at local matches are available and also as to what their on the range facilities are. Perhaps someone would like to word up the questions so that there is a proper response. I'd ask that the "normal" posting time be stated, not the worst or best ever.

Would anyone care to review my suggested list of questions and contact me via PM with suggestions. I would then happily post the poll.

Whne do you get your results?

What affects the time to reuslt positing?

Same day, electric and phone at range, no dedicated stats person

Same day, electric and phone at range, dedicated stats person

Same day, electric and phone at range, no dedicated stats person

Same day, electric and phone at range, dedicated stats person

Next day

Two days

Three days

Four days

Five days

Six days

One week

More than one week

Jim Norman

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We usually get results done within 30 minutes of the last shot (30-40 shooters, 4-5 stages). We have power and a stat shack but no phone at the range. It takes somebody driving home to upload them to the web site that night. The stats people (1-2 max) shoot through and run scoresheets to the shack every so often.

I've seen clubs with no power and no shack do 'em in a car with a $400 laptop and $20 inverter.

Shooters vastly prefer to see results right after the match.

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How do you update the database for classification changes? Or do you assume that there are no changes since the last time? I don't care about whether the scores are on the web that fast, but they should be correct.

A side benifit to scoring on the site might be more people hanging around and maybe even helping to teardown and out away.

I am not unhappy with the way we do things now, but truly, if I could go home done, it wouldn't bother me! I will look into people with a Laptop that will run EzWina and a CD burner. Then I can take the results home easy and post them.

Too bad I don't need a laptop at work (yet)

Jim

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Jim- Even without electricity and a phone line, it's still possible. My laptop battery last 3 hours and I have 2 batteries. I used to have a cellular modem for my laptop which would make uploading the completed stats easy as long as your shooting range is covered by a cell tower.

Feel the technology ;)

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How do you update the database for classification changes? Or do you assume that there are no changes since the last time? I don't care about whether the scores are on the web that fast, but they should be correct.

If the match is on a weekend, you can download the latest update before you leave home and sneaker net it to the PC at the match.

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I've seen clubs with no power and no shack do 'em in a car with a $400 laptop and $20 inverter.

We have power and a telephone line at the two ranges we use most often here, but I've handled stats at a third range which has nothing. In the latter case, I run my notebook PC on batteries, but I invariably need to plug the PC into my car cigarette lighter via a power invertor.

The guys (90%) all hang around and help tear down and store target stands and other props while I do the final scores, which I print out and post on a wall - guys who want their own copy give me a diskette or USB dongle for the transfer, after which we all go for pizza, beer and tissues .......

Note that a typical Sunday match is 30-50 competitors, 4-6 stages. For our Level III matches, I always have a dedicated (volunteer) Stats person, because as "permanent" RM, I don't want the distraction. Usually someone's better half is the volunteer, but for our last four Level IIIs, one of my best mates has flown in from another country to handle stats and he makes a weekend of it.

Of course this ultimately involves a whole lot more than the usual pizza and beer (and then some), until the weekend ends ............. on Wednesday :blink:

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sahauptman,

I'm not busting your chops, or anyone else's. But if there is something, anything you don't like about how your club or matches run, that is a perfect opportunity to help out and volunteer you time or resources.

I don't do stats or know much about them. We are fortunate to have a wonder stat lady who has the results printed out before tear down is complete (the respective squad on their last stage is responsible for tear down of that stage). Results are emailed and on the web by the end of the day.

I set up and design a lot of stages. And don't receive any serious complaints because my standard response is "cool, thanks for the advice, I'll see you at 8am next month and I'll help you set up whatever you want" That usually shut's them up for good, most of the people bitching are the ones that show up at 10:15, just in time for sign up.

Like I said, I ain't busting anybody's chops, but there are plenty of threads on here about people burning out. Not many of us make a living at this sport we love. Rob, Todd, Jerry, or any of those guys wouldn't have the job they do without an army of volunteers putting on the matches.

Just a thought.

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Even at a World Shoot, we only have 1 Stats Director and maybe 5 input volunteers, and they manage to have provisional results for 800 competitors who shot 35 stages (that's 28,000 scoresheets or 5,600 per day!) ready within 1 hour after the last shot was fired. Mind you, these are the "best of the best", but I've served as RM for a 120 competitor match and I entered half the scores at lunchtime and the other half within 2 hours of the last shot.

I just don't get it ..............

Move the World Shoot to Palm scoring and you can assgn the 5 input voluneers to other tasks; do the entire match on a single laptop; and leave the stats crew of 1 with plenty of time to hang out and take photos. Set up a in-house web server on a network of PCs in the clubhouse and you can post without doing a Martin Luther impression. You'll even have results up in about 5 minutes. Just ask anyone who was at Area 7 this year if this really works.

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How do you update the database for classification changes? Or do you assume that there are no changes since the last time? I don't care about whether the scores are on the web that fast, but they should be correct.

A side benifit to scoring on the site might be more people hanging around and maybe even helping to teardown and out away.

I am not unhappy with the way we do things now, but truly, if I could go home done, it wouldn't bother me! I will look into people with a Laptop that will run EzWina and a CD burner. Then I can take the results home easy and post them.

Too bad I don't need a laptop at work (yet)

Jim

The classification database is updated monthly, generally a few days after the 10th.

Forget the CD burner - just get a USB keychain drive - even the small ones have plenty of room for a classification database and results from the match.

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Move the World Shoot to Palm scoring and you can assgn the 5 input voluneers to other tasks; do the entire match on a single laptop; and leave the stats crew of 1 with plenty of time to hang out and take photos.  Set up a in-house web server on a network of PCs in the clubhouse and you can post without doing a Martin Luther impression.  You'll even have results up in about 5 minutes.  Just ask anyone who was at Area 7 this year if this really works.

While I understand your support for scoring by PDA (which I, too, support for certain uses, under controlled conditions), and while I further acknowledge the comprehensive testing you conducted at the Area 7 and other matches, I believe you're also aware of the limitations of scoring by PDA.

These include, in no particular order, the additional costs of the hardware and software, the risk of hardware failure (even you ordered paper backups), the need for training, inconsistent screen legibility to our ageing cadre of match officials, the (sad but true) inability of some of our otherwise world-class officials to embrace new technologies, the harsh "inclement weather" environment in which WS matches are conducted and so on. You had to be in South Africa to understand the "Martian-like" red dust challenge ....

I'm also reminded of the old chestnut about the competing US and Russian space programs, notably the (alleged) multi-million dollar "Fisher Space Pen" versus the two rouble "Russian Pencil" solutions ;)

Moreover, I also respectfully remind you that scores are available equally on a PC or a PDA "in about 5 minutes" from when the final score is entered on either the "master" PC or PDA. And you've really got to see IPSC's dynamic duo of Jayne & Rita enter scores - awesome.

Finally, this is serious thread drift, and I've therefore ordered the BE Forum Police (who carry "Mace", chairs and whips to deal with ferocious beasts such as Simon The Dog and his kin), to pay you a visit soon. Very soon. :ph34r:

(By all means start a new thread about "Scoring By PDA")

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But the match was on June 13 and still no results. Most of the time it takes a month to get results.

If it usually takes a month...then, that is too long.

Of course, if the current stats person is the only person that volunteers to do the work...

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I volunteered to score the last local club match. This was 4 stages and around 30 shooters. Since I'm one of the people who ping web sites every 5 minutes until I get to see the results, my aim was to get the final results out before the stages were torn down and up on the web that evening.

We managed the former, so those who helped with the tear down (which should be everybody, right? :P) got to see them before leaving.

We failed in the latter 'cause there was no easy way to get the files off the antiquated laptop used on the range and onto something with a decent net connection, and then there was a problem getting the html to the web guy in a form he could read ... so that took 2 days.

I can't see any real reason for not being able to get results out in a day or two.

I even managed to shoot the match well (for me) so there's clearly some karmic benefit in helping out B)

Kevin

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Flex,

If Hauptman and I are talking about the same club...they will not let anyone else do the scoring. I personally have volunteered more than once, but these people are on a bit of a power trip.

Hopefully someone I talked to will be able to convince them to let me run the scores.

I run 5 stinkin businesses and I will still have the scores out the same night from a 60 shooter match.

I don't see any excuse what so ever why everyone can't do it. I'll say this once and shut up....If you can't handle the job and do it right, don't do it at all.

I understand that there can be extenuating circumstances. But IMHO a week is far too long to wait. By then the stages are already disappearing out of your head.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, this is just something that really irks me. No offense intended to anyone on this forum at all.

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Of the three local clubs I shoot, one gets scores out by email usually by about 7PM the night of the match; one gets scores posted to a section website by mid-day the day after; and the third gets scores up on a club website by about 10AM on Thursday <_< , for a Sunday match.

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Well, since I started the original thread, I will give an update....

First, I own the local club scores now. :huh:

Second, I generally try for 24 hours. I run them the same afternoon, but wait to verify them the next day. :rolleyes:

Third, I'm moving toward on-site match scoring, and expect to score the July MRP match on-site. B)

Part of getting results out however, remains that someone has to do them! The June MRP results took a week to get out. Why? Because I was at the 3 Gun Nats in Reno on match day, and the MD and I did not hook up until yesterday (so I didn't have the scoresheets).

In any case, I don't mind doing them, but occassionally conflicts arise so unless the local club has two volunteers that handle stats, then there will be some delays.... ;)

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We failed in the latter 'cause there was no easy way to get the files off the antiquated laptop used on the range and onto something with a decent net connection, and then there was a problem getting the html to the web guy in a form he could read ... so that took 2 days.

USB Memory Key. Those things rock for transferring stats. No more warped diskettes or bad sectors.

You need drivers for Windows ME and below. Bring them on a CD. USB ports should be on every laptop capable of running EzWS.

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