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Scoring Results Posted


BDH

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We've had some real issues over the last couple of months with scoring and posting of match results. Shooters that shoot our match should expect scores within a reasonable timeframe, and they should expect their Classifiers sent up to Sedro. So far, discussion with the MD has not changed anything.

What is a 'reasonable' time frame to expect match results?

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No longer than a week is my vote.

Immediately is preferred.

;)

(I do scores every now and then...so this isn't just a shooter wish.)

It takes a few hours to get the competitors and their scores into the computer (coming home and entering them into the machine). So, it is really an 'on the ball' stats person that can get them in on the same day.

The match staff can help out quite a bit.

- ensure everybody on EVERY score sheet has their name and division listed.

- add the columns of Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta & Mikes...then add across to make sure all the hits & misses are accounted for. Circle the total hits to show the stats crew that they were counted.

- Circle the Procedurals and No-Shoots, so they are properly scored.

- Write the times clearly...make SURE the times are recorded.

(BDH...sorry to drift the thread a bit.)

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No longer than a week is my vote. Immediately is preferred.

(BDH...sorry to drift the thread a bit.)

I think a week is certainly reasonable.

As for thread drift....absolutely NO problem! All good points and stuff that experienced staff do..... and if I may add, write down the reason for the Procedurals in case they are questioned.... probably overkill in a club match, but still a good practice to adopt.....

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My second IPSC match was at Bailey's Practical Shooters in Houston, TX. There, they only have one bay to have their matches, but they have no less than 4 stages and get it all done in 3 or so hours (at least at the match I was at) with 20+ shooters, including setup, tear down and get this, computerized match results and a small awards ceremony.

That is one thing I'd really like to see at matches. Instant scoring. There at Bailey's, they even had scores posted by stage, between stages. It was very, very cool. I know it added alot to my own competitive sprit that day.

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BigDave,

When you only have one bay it means you only have one shooter at a time, it’s fairly easy to keep a running total especially with a laptop. We’re doing that now at our small club. But when you have 4 bays (which we hope to have soon) and 4 shooters going at once, “up to the moment” isn’t practical.

A bit of thread drift… sorry.

A week, accurately reported, should be plenty. USPSA doesn’t REQUIRE clubs to report a month’s activity until the 10th (IIRC) of the following month.

Ed

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When I shot a match out of town last month we were standing around the clubhouse while they were printing the final scores. The final print out went into the big envelope with address and stamps already on it. The check was made out and dropped in and the score keeper said she would drop it at the post office on the way to work in the morning.

At our last local match the results were in my email inbox before I got home and got the blaster cleaned. Now that was cool too considering the MD had twice as far to drive and he had to pound it all into the computer.

Ideally, this would happen at all matches but logistics are such that it isn't likely.

With electronic submission and wireless internet enabled devices I can see the day where the match results are delivered to Sedro before the last car has left the parking lot. How cool would that be?

In reality though, most MDs are busy folks and it is tough enough taking the time to design the match and get everything in order, then shoot the match and try and have some fun. I can certainly understand why it takes some folks a long time to get them sent in. Doesn't make me happy, but I understand.

If this happens consistently then it is probably time for the match staff to ask for some help.

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If I didn't want to shoot our local matches, I could easily have the scores ready with laptop by the time the stages are torn down and everyone has decided where to go afterward. I can and have managed the Indiana State Match (seven stages that year) withone helper to read the numbers to me . . . but that sucked because I never got to leave the stats trailer! :angry:

Since I do want to shoot, I do my best to complete the scores and have them e-mailed to our list before I retire for the evening. It takes me longer to get home (usually) than it does to finish the scores, so that's the biggest delay. And that includes doing all the match information right before I enter the scores. I try to get the activity and classification reports in the mail with the check the next day (Monday). :rolleyes:

On the other hand, I know some others are not as adept at this as I am. I prefer to have results quickly, but I won't ask or complain about other clubs' scores until at least a full calendar week has passed.

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My second IPSC match was at Bailey's Practical Shooters in Houston, TX. There, they only have one bay to have their matches, but they have no less than 4 stages and get it all done in 3 or so hours (at least at the match I was at) with 20+ shooters, including setup, tear down and get this, computerized match results and a small awards ceremony.

That is one thing I'd really like to see at matches. Instant scoring. There at Bailey's, they even had scores posted by stage, between stages. It was very, very cool. I know it added alot to my own competitive sprit that day.

You've been to San Angelo and Coleman??? It is this same story every month. The Coleman results are on the web that evening. We usually take a day here in San Angelo.

Both San Angelo and Coleman have a small awards ceremony after the match. It works out pretty well. Our stats guys, one in each place, shoot through the match and enter the scores. We are grateful to both.

Liota

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Brian,

for us in Italy, both at club or Championship matches, it is common practice to have the Stat Officer entering score sheets during the competition, thus if a competitor has to re-shoot a stage (according to 9.7.5) he can still be found on the range.

According to this procedure, the final verify lists will be usually published within 30 mins from the competition last shot, then the final standings (and consequent prizes awarding) are published after 60 mins from the final verify lists release. This timeframe is intentionally left for occasional protest filing and for verification of final results before publishing.

The final results are then uploaded to the club or Italian federation website, usually about a couple of days after the match (we have a quite lazy webmaster, we always complain of).

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We had been having an issue at a local club where it was taking weeks for the results to be sent out - sometimes longer with some not even submitted months later.

Like many shooters there, I bitched and moaned and complained until last week when I finally volunteered to do the scoring myself. Like other shooters, I like to shoot, but I also want to see my results on the classifier sent in as well as how I did at the local match. If we wait for someone else to do it, it just won't happen.

So I decided to be part of the solution...now if MORE shooters would be part of the solution rather than just idle participants, results would be sent in faster, stages set up quicker, etc.

Givers and Takers...and I was a taker until now...

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WOW!! By end of the match?? That would be nice, but even delivering them within a day or two seems more than acceptable. As Kimel said, 'most MD's are busy' and actually have a bunch of other stuff to do as well. On top of that is the fact that of course this is all volunteer work.

vluc, we have volunteered multiple times to at least take over the scoring ends of things, but so far our MD has resisted. I guess we are going to have to somehow strongarm him because I think it took more than a month to get our April match scores out, and as for our May match (5/25), well...... still waiting.

SA, sorry to hear about you missing your M card because of a late classifier (especially, since I believe that one of them was from my home club). :(

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It would be nice to have some scores while I can still remember the stages...It's difficult to analyze a performance on a stage three matches ago.

Let's say you thought you did well on a stage, but on the results you see a guy you don't know ran three seconds faster.

If I can visualize the whole stage, I can find those three seconds. After three weeks, it's just "oh well, I got beat by three seconds." A good learning opportunity is lost.

Regarding classifiers, at some point that match fee becomes a contract that a classifier gets sent in.

It's frustrating, but there are few solutions.

I get the feeling that many MDs are close to burning out. I don't want to needle a guy that's on the verge of hanging it up and risk losing a match or a friend.

Missing that M card last month was a good experience for me, upon reflection. I'll just have to get better and shoot M scores every time...(I never put my open A card in the wallet, hoping I wouldn't need it. :)) I was hoping to go from U to M...but that may be unrealistic.

SA

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Brian,

We (Kyle, BJ and I) plan, set up, run and score our local match. We have some great guys that show up on Sat before the match on Sun and help with the set up and almost everyone that shoots in the PM time slot stays to help with the tear down. By the time the match is over and we get home, the last thing I want to do is start looking a score sheets!

On Monday evening I manually go through every score sheet and add hits and points, look at and mark procedurals and penalties with a highlighter, then the scores are entered in EZScore. We recheck entries against the score sheets before posting results. It usually takes us two days to get results out, but I want to make sure that they are accurate (even then I sometimes have to issue corrected scores, usually due to division mistakes).

Our match is on the fourth weekend of the month so it is important to get finished and scores out to Sedro for classification purposes. I could not shoot the match and sit with the notebook entering scores, however I think a day or two is not unreasonable.

Has anyone tried to upload classifiers to USPSA? I have emailed Roger Maier twice for a club password with no response, guess I will try a phone call today. It would sure make it easier for those of us who shoot late in the month.

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Guys,

I don't understand quite well.

Are you plain saying that it is the MD responsibility to manually enter score sheets in MSS or WinMSS to compute final standings?

I am quite puzzled on this? :blink:

We have a designated Stat Officer (local club member for club matches, NROI certified Stat Officer for Championship matches) that will work from the first to the last shot of the match, entering score sheets and publishing partial verify lists during all competition.

This is made to ensure everybody can check their results and the correct entering during the match.

Plus, it has the advantage of letting you know who did what on a specific stage.

Surely the SO guy/girl has a tough day or two during the match, and this is why he/she is usually well taken care of from the MD and organization. ;)

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The single most important aspect of accurate, timely scoring results is

a correctly, completely, legibly written score sheet for each competitor. A competitor's score sheet

is the responsibility of the competitor, not that of the person attempting to enter data into

a scoring program. Expedient scoring results are possible if every participant at a match

assists in conducting the match. It follows that each of us should ask ourselves, what can

I contribute to the match in order for it to run smoothly, orderly and be fun for all.

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SA, I agree that many MD's are close to burn-out so I hate to make a big deal out of this either, BUT..... we are clearly falling down on the job if we can not get scores out in a reasonable timeframe. I shot Oxford on 6/1, and our match on 5/25. I have the Oxford scores, but not ours. :huh: Also, on your comment about not being able to recall a stage because it was a few weeks ago, and then wondering how someone beat you 'by 3 sec', we do that on purpose........ see, that way, when 'I' beat you by three seconds, you won't be able to remember the stage, and will wonder forever, just how the hell that happened!! :lol::lol:

TRNinVA, Please don't misunderstand....... I'm not saying that match results should be out the same day, and in fact, I was surprised how many people responded that they get them either before they leave the match, or before they get home. That is outstanding!! I think that the way you are doing it is fine, and no one can complain about taking a couple of days, or even a week (especially, if it's consistent). Our problem is that we are taking much longer, and now we have people that are wondering when they will see their scores. I'm afraid that we are going to start losing shooters over this issue, :o and can not understand why our MD doesn't want anyone else to pitch in and take over the scoring so we can get them out in a more reasonible timeframe. :wacko:

Skywalker, we are really talking about our local club matches. Generally, we have a MD that is responsible for the overall match, and that is probably the only 'official' person at the match. Most of the clubs around here, don't have the bodies to have a dedicated Stats guy, or even dedicated RO's (in other words, RO's generally run a squad, and shoot on the squad). So depending on the club (how many willing bodies they have to help, and how the MD runs things), in many cases the MD designs the match, helps set up, does the scoring, etc., etc. In my specific case, we have approx. 4 - 6 people that we can count on every month. All of them generally show up on Saturday afternoon to set up the match, then come out early on Sunday to hang the paper, then shoot the match and usually RO as well, and then tear down the match. The MD does encourage each of us to alternate handling the overall monthly stage design, but so far, he will not give up the scoring function. B)

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  • 2 weeks later...

When I shot in Washington, the match results ( and award pins/plaques) were always ready directly after the match. Some clubs were faster than others, but I never left without knowing my results. Upon moving to California, only two of the clubs post results immediately, with the remainder going to the internet after anywhere from 2-10 days. Discussing this with some older shooters, they said that back when match results were compiled by hand (calculator, pencil, and notebook I guess), people would stick around waiting for results to be completed to see how they did. The observation was made that now that we have computers and internet, nobody has time to compile match results. Everyone is different, but if you are paying money to shoot a match, the results are part of that, and results should be posted either at the match, or the day after.

First forum post, trying not to sound like too much of a rambling jack-ass. That will come later.

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Match results for club matches are usually determined by the Match Director, who is also the IPSC Chairman

of the club. After eleven years of on-off shooting in IPSC, the bottom line is most clubs are carried by 4-6 persons.

All competitors can contribute in some way to a match. Results of club matches can be available ASAP if all

competitors, club memebers or otherwise, help in conducting, scoring and tearing down the stages.

Folks, the work load of a local club IPSC Chairman is crushing. Give him/her a hand each and every match,

in any manner possible. This is the most effective way to improve and maintain match quality, and to receive

match results as promptly as possible.

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The observation was made that now that we have computers and internet, nobody has time to compile match results.

Jeez. Now that we have computers, compiling match results is a helluva lot faster and easier.

First forum post, trying not to sound like too much of a rambling jack-ass. That will come later.

Cool. Gives us something to look forward to. ;) Welcome to the Enosverse.

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At our last local match we had six stages and 97 shooters. Thats 582 scoresheets for our stats guy to go through.

Our stats guy is a shooter and he had the results emailed out that night by 9:30.

Most all clubs in Colorado have the results out before you go to bed.

No clubs in Eastern Colorado have a non shooter doing stats at the range so they get emailed out. Not sure about Western Colorado.

I tried to score the match at the match after shooting through and four hours of setup. Not something I am willing to do again. I like hanging out with the guys bullshitting and telling lies, not shooting through and hacking away at a keyboard while others are shooting.

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We try and get our stats out shortly after the match is torn down. That typically means two dedicated stats people shooting through (4-5 stages, 20-40 shooters). Even so, now that we do same-day internet posting, the BS and awards session only draws ~10 people. We've noticed that if we don't post stats for a week, at the next match more people stick around.. <_< Other clubs in the area post their results a few days late. I don't fault them since they don't have computers, shack or power at their range, but I do like seeing results before I leave the range.

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I am the IPSC cordinator, match director, stage designer, setup and tear down crew and the stats man at our club in WI. We have a couple of dedicated people that you can count on each month to help. The way we look at it, we are putting our names and reputation on the line each month when we do our matches. You want guys to show up each month? Get the scores done and posted in a timely fashion. The results should be posted and sent to the shooters(we use e-mail and websites) within a couple of days of the match. A week later at the most. In my opinion there is no excuse for the classifiers not to be sent in to Sedro immediately following the match. Most people shoot just to see how they are doing when that web page is updated every month. And they get real pissed off when the scores are not sent in on time. And guess what, you get shooters mad at you and they quite coming in droves. With all the technology we have today their is no excuse not to get the score posted.

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