What Is Wrong With Production?

[Craigar45]

I have shot a few matches now... not old hand, but not total newb either. As far as I can remember, production was always the least populus category. Why?

Do most competitors that shoot limited (which usually has the strongest showing) just dislike being restricted to double action guns?

I am asking because I am starting to wonder if I am missing something. Why does everyone else shoot limited? The local match I shot yesterday had more than four limited shooters to every production shooter. If you shoot to compete, isnt it smart to shoot a category that has less competition? So why arent there more production shooters?

Limited has its attractions to me too- I could get that Witness Limited I have always wanted.

But things like having a race holster doesnt save me much time as I already have a strong draw. While we are on the subject, drawing and reloads are my strongest skills in USPSA. So I guess shoting in a class limited to ten round mags helps me out since I like reloads.

OK, I was getting into a bit of a ramble there... So back on topic: why do you think production isnt more popular? Is it like that in your area?

C

[Joe4d]

USPSA is about freestlye or it is supposed to be, that what's good about it. Production was created because IDPA took off in popularity. I know no one at HQ will ever admit it but it's kinda hard not to see the truth. One of the biggest complaints about IDPA was all the rules that just dont seem to matter and now USPSA has tried to duplicate it. They seem to feel to keep the sport growing new shooters need to have a division that will allow them to compete with standard production pistols and holsters. Of course some shooters just like the division and either switch or stay in it. But I think there are larger numbers of serious shooters who end up in Limited as it is not that expensive to put together a serious competitive rig. Here in HI everyone is 10 rounds and all we shoot is LImited and Open.

[Flexmoney]

Production is alive...well...and growing.

It is one of, if not the, top divisions in my area.

[open17]

Last Saturday's match. It was a special classifier match, so there may have been a

few more in Production than usual.

Open 12 competitors

Limited 12

L10 10

Prod 29

SS 1

Rev 1

This is in Oregon---not a 10 rd restricted state. Doesn't seem to be a problem

with Production attendance that I can see.

Bill

[vluc]

The beauty of USPSA is that we are freestyle and not a "one size fits all". Each area, heck, each section in an area can have its own unique draw and identity with the different types of shooters in the divisions.

While production may not be popular where you are, it sure is here. Revolver is hot is some places, not here in Western PA.

[Gary1911A1]

I think it would be even more popular if they did away with the 10 Round limit myself.

[GRW]

All 3 of the local clubs have 4 stage matches, which great since it allows a competitor to shoot a second gun. I shoot open mostly, but love to shoot production because it makes you think through a stage differently.

[zhunter]

I am not a Production shooter, but it is very healthy here in Florida.

[shred]

It's a regional thing. People looking for competition tend to gravitate to where the competition is.

Production isn't as popular as Limited or Open at our club, but far more so than revolver or single-stack, for example.

[Sestock]

Production is very popular in the Pittsburgh area. Currently in the seven clubs it is the second highest division at almost 25%, just behind Limited 27%. Locally it appears that Open is in a decline.

[Derwoodski]

+1 in the Upper midwest The wisconsin section had these attendence figures.

Open 24

Limited 28

Lim 10 23

Production 22

Revo 4

Single Stack 24

Seems production is hanging right in there up here as well, and these are fairly consistant proportions for most of the club matches I have attended in MN and WI. If I were to judge by the attendence I have seen, and I am pretty new to this myself, Production is a healthy and competitive division. I am not sure I would have been so interested in starting out if I had to spring for a limited set up from the beginning. Production allows me to shoot a reasonably priced pistol (cz-75B $409 retail), a kydex holster and a couple a mag holders, 5 mags and away you go. Minor scoring so shooting 9mm is not a handicap, I see nothing

WRONG with production......but I am out shooting it, I see more discussion on here about what is WRONG with production than I hear at the matches I shoot. JMHO

[Mr Glack]

Thank goodness USPSA/IPSC is an inclusive sport. For me "practical" means shooting what I own; and improving my personal best. It's what attracted me to the sport in the first place. I started out in production and moved to revolvers and am working on improving my single stack shooting. Our club has dedicated matches for concealed carry (primarily production) and single stack!

Even if these aren't the most popular divisions that doesn't mean you can't enjoy competing in them!! Have fun! Go out and enjoy whatever you own!!!

[G-ManBart]

I don't think there's anything wrong with Production at all. I don't shoot it, but it seems to be smart for the sport to offer something for the new shooter, or those who really want to focus on shooting what they carry or keep at home for protection (among other reasons). If new shooters showed up and saw nothing but Open, Limited and Limited-10 they'd likely be discouraged....that's a big jump when you're looking at many of the competitors wearing a couple grand on their waist.

At my club Production is nearly non-existant....just a handful of shooters. At our last match we had 28 shooters (bad weather). 16 were in Limited, 5 in Open and 5 in Lim-10. There was only 1 Production and 1 Single Stack shooter. I looked at some previous matches and in one there were 41 shooters and 28 were in Limited with only 5 in Production.

I've also noted that there are very few IDPA matches around here. I'd bet money that where you have lots of Production shooters you've also got strong IDPA clubs in the area.

[Chuck Anderson]

We're very strong in Production and have no IDPA clubs anywhere around. Normally about a 4 way split between Production, Limited, Open and L10. It varies by month but it's normally pretty close. I think it has a lot to do with what kind of recruiting your club does. New shooters tend to gravitate (my experience only) to Production or L10. At least until they've shot for awhile. If you don't have any Production or L10 shooters, maybe some recruting is in order.

[HSMITH]

Production around here is probably as popular as anything else. B and C classes are FIERCELY competitive too, some really strong shooters week in and week out. I haven't shot much production but I have enjoyed what I have shot.

[redwoods]

I used to shoot production when I first got into USPSA. I like shooting and shooting fast and a bunch, so I like USPSA better than IDPA. I shot a glock 34, then wanted an all metal gun. The 1911 para ord was always a gun that I liked the looks of. I bought a kimber 1911 and then a limited gun and now just got an open gun. If you are into guns and like firepower, you go limited. If you like technology and super fast shooting with loudness and cool looking guns and have the money, you go open. I still like the glock, but single action with a light and smooth trigger and tons of rounds is where it is at for me.

To me, production is for guys that stay with what they like and know, and for new shooters, and for shooters that don't want to spend the money on fancy guns, or for once in a while shooters who shoot for fun and may not care about being competitive.

Different strokes for different folks

Redwoods

[Micah]

Production is alive...well...and growing.

It is one of, if not the, top divisions in my area.

+1. We are fortunate to have a sport that allows us diverse divisions to play in. Pick your favorite and go have some fun!

[dcarter]

I think you kinda answered your own question. I don't think people like to reload if they don't have to. Being limited to 10 rnds and the restrictions on what changes can be made to the gun itself may be turning your people away from it. I, for one, would like to keep the same rules for production with the exception of the 10 rd limit. If single stack takes off as it is then I think it should be done. Most of your semi-autos can hold as many as 17 rds or more. Just my 2 pennies worth.

[Jim Norman]

At our area clubs we have a very strong showing of Production shooters. We reange from newbie to GM. Many of our production shoters were already highly classed in Open and or Limited.

We have a good turnout of Open, Limited, L-10 and Producti0n. Every now and then we get a couple Revo or SS people. I don't think we've ever it 5 in either SS or Revo.

Our matches run 7 stages and generally about 60 or more shooters.

Jim

[Lee Bell]

I think it would be even more popular if they did away with the 10 Round limit myself.

I once thought that, and said so. Many jumped on my case, failing to notice that I supported both a 10 round production and a full capacity production division/category/whatever.

The most logical argument against such a change came from those that suggest my 15 + 1 Beretta would be at a disadvantage against higher capacity pistols. Personally, I could deal with that, as I do when I choose to shoot Limited with XD 9 Tactical and it's 16 + 1 capacity. The major/minor difference is a lot more of a disadvantage to me than the fact that some can load more rounds. In production, which I shoot more often, I think my single action first shot is a bigger advantage than high capacity, but that's just my opinion. YMMV.

I'd still like to see a production division that allows whatever will fit in a standard length magazine AND a continuation of the 10 round limit for those that find the more level playing field more to their liking. There's room enough in the sport for everyone.

Lee

[Chuck Anderson]

I have not come across a singe shooter at my club that switched away from Production solely becuase of the 10 round limit. Maybe that's partly because we enforce good stage design. If your club does a lot of 25-32 round courses where you can shoot them all from one spot, you're going to discourage Production, L10 and SS shooters. (Wheelies will shoot anything). As far as allowing the high cap mags. It's not so much that I don't want to discourage the 16 or 15 round guns from competing against a 17 round gun. But what about the new shooters or the shooters that already have a .40 or .45 gun that want to shoot production. We have a lot of LE that come and initially shoot Production this way. Kind of hard to tell them that they're going head to head with a CZ SP-01 with a 19+1 and their carry Beretta 96 with 11+1 are even.

[joseywales]

Mostly Limited shooters here in N.Texas (SV is literally 'just across town', STI is a 3hr drive away, and the custom guys - Brazos Custom, Dawson Precision & Bennie Hill are all in the state too).

In years past you may find one lone ranger shooting in Production.

Now you'll find anywhere from 5-15 out of 35-40 match shooters in Production.

Influx of IDPA shooters, and local course designs becoming much more friendly to SS/Prod shooters have been a big influence.

[Carlos]

Kind of hard to tell them that they're going head to head with a CZ SP-01 with a 19+1 and their carry Beretta 96 with 11+1 are even.

I agree with you. By keeping the 10 round limit in Production, USPSA creates a division that welcomes 40, and even 45ACP. Besides, we all know how much most cops need USPSA-type practice so it benefits us to make the sport welcoming to them.

USPSA also welcomes a wider variety of 9mm guns than IPSC production does - where in IPSC, there is a perception that you need a Glock 17 or a SP-01 (or LDA) to be competitive due to the one to three extra round capacity (look at the stats).

I do not live in California nor is there a magazine restriction in my state. BUT, the largest gun-buying market in the US is California. If the magazine capacity in Production is increased, it will effectively leave out the shooters in those states (yes I know about "pre-ban magazine" owners - lets not go there again). I do not see the need for an increase in Production mag limits in USPSA (perhaps IPSC could change their rule?).

[toowide]

I started out shooting USPSA with H&K .40 in limited. Then switched to a Kimber .45 for Limited 10. Then on to a P-14 Para for limited. Shot that for 6 years. Still do from time to time. I switched to Production for a change of scenery. The round count does make you think out stages differently than Limited. There is nothing wrong with production. It is not better or worse than the others, it is just different. I think that production and Single Stack and Limited 10 give the guy off the street with his carry gun a chance to get into the sport and then spend their kids college money on new and bigger equipment.

[boo radley]

I'd still like to see a production division that allows whatever will fit in a standard length magazine AND a continuation of the 10 round limit for those that find the more level playing field more to their liking. There's room enough in the sport for everyone.

Lee

I don't understand why some of y'all are so determined to f*ck with Production, which has been a growing and very popular Division by any standards.

In case the original poster wasn't trolling, go to the USPSA website, and pull up stats over the years from major matches, since Production's inception. I have no doubt in some clubs it's not popular, but in some clubs Open isn't popular either, but it's silly to then draw a widespread conclusion...

Oh, and there *IS* a Division if you want to shoot hi-caps in your Production gun: it's called "Limited" but check "minor" scoring.