Plain Black Front Sight

[Loves2Shoot]

What are peoples opinion of a gold dot front sight?

I've only seen one and it takes focus away from the top edge off the sight.

[Nate]

Did I mention sight black? Does the texture or any other part of the sight make as much difference as knowing what you are seeing with what ever is on the gun? A sight doesn't make you put one in the black.

[hopalong]

I personally don't use a Fiber Optic front sight. (they get in the way)

But having said that.....

A couple of gentlemen I shoot with are getting short arm syndrome....(old eyes) and the fiber optic has helped them both when shooting iron sighted handguns.

They both tell me all black just all fuzzes together and all they get is a black blob on the top of their slide.

BUT for the everyday...semi good visioned person.....NOT NEEDED!

HOPALONG

Edit to add:

When Benny sent me my new "Benny Blaster" it came back with a .100 wide sight with a .60 FO rod in it.....after it breaking the second time, I filled it with JB weld and shoot it much better that before.

Edited April 8, 2006 by hopalong

[kellyn]

FINALLY people are realizing how worthless these gimmics are! they really hurt your accuracy and are just one more thing to break on a gun!

Don't tell TGO and his 1910 at Bianchi!

[Rikarin]

Did I mention sight black? Does the texture or any other part of the sight make as much difference as knowing what you are seeing with what ever is on the gun? A sight doesn't make you put one in the black.

I have FO and about to give it up... I usually use Sight Black but keeping it "just in case" match goes on and it gets really dark, like Tuesday Steel can.

But problem I found is sight black darken the FO enough, FO doesn't "shine" anymore even after I scrub and even wash with soap. And furthermore, the spray sight black is pain to use. If I spray too much, the force of spray + solvent will blow away what it is already on the FO. So, I end up keep on spraying.

I recently got an idea of using dry marker. You know, what you use on white boards. It is so much better than sight black.

But I am still kinda wanting to ditch the FO all together for next gun, for the exact reason stated here.

Anyone have same problem of FO and Sight Black???

[Jasonub]

if you shoot dark blued colored steel targets or black ones (now common in ipsc countries), black on black sights on black targets on dark backgrounds, well you get the idea

[SteveZ]

FINALLY people are realizing how worthless these gimmics are! they really hurt your accuracy and are just one more thing to break on a gun!

Don't tell TGO and his 1910 at Bianchi!

yeah...while shooting a match back in January with Rob (and Kelly)...I asked Rob about his views on FO sights vs some of the comments made by others that they shoot better without them. Rob's comments about the use of FO sights revolved around shooting certain color targets against certain backgrounds in non-optimal light where the FO helps the shooter find the front sight. Regarding the issues of shooters feeling that they can shoot better without FO's...he pointed out that those shooters typically are placing too much focus on the FO or using the FO itself as a means to sight the gun.

I switched to a FO sight years ago and my shooting improved dramatically. What I really like about the FO sight is that during fast transitions...it helps me "locate" the sight once I get there...and then once I locate the sight...I use it as I would a normal sight by looking at the top of the sight....and not the FO element.

Hopefully someday, Rob will chime in on his experiences before and after switching.

Edited April 12, 2006 by SteveZ

[Flexmoney]

Sounds like some tend to use it as a crutch to lean on...whereas TGO seems to be able to utilize it as a tool for going forward?

[Jasonub]

Sounds like some tend to use it as a crutch to lean on...whereas TGO seems to be able to utilize it as a tool for going forward?

+1.

Just shoot what you prefer but i suggest that one tries both and enter matches with both then decide. Me im still confused

[kellyn]

Not that I'm a Bianchi specialist (having shot the course once), I would personally favor an all black sight for Bianchi.

But for USPSA/IPSC/3Gun etc etc., I have come to favor the fiber (FYI I could change my mind tomorrow - I have already shot fibers, left them for all black, and came back). I think they allow the shooter to be aware of the front sight location without neccesarily focusing on it. When looking "through the sight" at the target, I have a greater awareness of the front sight. When I need to focus on the front sight for shots of more difficulty, it is easy to do so since the fiber naturally draws the eye.

Just my opinion. And I need a crutch!

[Flexmoney]

kellyn,

You might be in a pretty good position to comment on this...as I think you shoot with TGO often enough ?

I was of the opinion that TGO...when shooting for accuracy...would sight black out his fiber optic?

With that in mind, I would think that, for Bianchi, he would be running with a blacked out front sight? (Bianchi certainly doesn't put him tight against the clock, right?)

I guess the point I would eventually likely to make is that most/some see the fiber optic in the peripheral, wheras TGO tends to see more of what is needed to make the shot ???

[Steve Moneypenny]

This past weekend Mike Seeklander won the SC section championship using THREE fiber optics!!!! lets all switch to that! just kidding.. great shooting on mikes part. rear green front red i believe.

Optometrists are proof that everyones eyes are different. A few people will like, and even benefit from fiber optic sights. But for most of the shooting public it is just a distraction. The ones i shot with in bright light washed out the front sight squareness... i've lost rod's in matches but heck in the future.. never know i might try it again.. but not until i get some other issues like consistancy.... worked out.

I'd have to ask if rob blacked it out for bianchi.. he is a freak when it comes to vision he sees soooo much. even beyond the sights.

[kellyn]

I certainly don't speak for Rob but I do get beat by him quite often. I have heard him say that he may black out the fiber for some stages requiring more accuracy but I personally have never seen him do it.

He did black out the fiber optics locted in the REAR sight of his new single stack It had a red fiber front and 2 green fiber dots in the rear.

I'm positive that the 2005 Bianchi gun had a FO front but I can't remember about his new one (I'm getting old - I played with it a couple of weeks ago). I'll find out.

FYI I have never ever seen someone constantly tinker with and change equipment like Rob. He is constantly experimenting. I think it has more to do with mentally shaking things up than it does with actual improving equipment performance. I would not be at all surprised to see him drop Fiber optics sights completely and come back to them.

[Steve H]

Rob's Bianchi gun from 2005 was a black front sight........no FO......this year's Bianchi gun as of now has a black front sight......I would be surprised to see a FO on his Bianchi gun.

This is a great topic...............

and the Springfield gun is superior to the Dan Wesson (Kelly!)

Steve

[Kevin Kline]

So, you know people that do CNC work (for you, AAMOF), you have an idea for a sight, and you've proven that what you sell is of good quality. Sounds like another product to me.

I've thought about it, but CNC capacity is so unbelievably tight here locally, it isn't even funny. In order to make a profit, you need CNC capacity in house, and I don't want to be in the CNC business. I want to be able to buy it from Brazos, put it on my gun and be done with it.

Off to the shop to cobble up my old microdot into kind of what I want and maybe post a picture if I don't muck it up too bad.

The problem with my sight is that it would have exactly ZERO curb-appeal. It wouldn't be a miracle device, just a normal sight with a small, FO helper to improve tracking in poor/difficult lighting. Nobody is going to dislocate their shoulder going for their credit card on that one.

Gotcha. You could have one machined (or do it yourself) to your specs.

The first thing that I noticed that was the main drawback for me for pretty much all the FO sights out there is that there's not enough black at the top. Voigt's advice was have as much black at the top as you do at the sides, so if you have a .040 fiber/hole in a .100 sight, have the hole centered at .050 so that you have .030 all the way around. Mine's pretty close to those specs, but if I were to have it built again, I'd do things a bit different. Same .040 rod, but a .110-.115 sight with the rod centered .070-080 from the top so there's even more black to focus on (the overall height of the sight would be between .195 and .210). I'd also have a lot less slant in the viewing surface.

The second thing that I noticed that was a pretty big drawback for me for pretty much all the FO sights out there is that they're far too long. You don't need that much FO to have the thing draw your eye to it, so all you end up doing with a long FO sight is decreasing sight radius. Also, on the thinnest ones the brightness ends up washing out the black sides and top.

As far as curb appeal goes, if you come at it from the right point of view and explain why you've manufactured the sight the way you have, I think it would have curb appeal. As far as the width goes, the thickness helps you focus on it to make more difficult shots. The serrations reduce glare. The "lowness" of the fiber optic in the body of the sight gives you more black at the top to, again, help make precision shots. And the fiber optic is there to do its intended job, not as an aiming aid, but as a visual cue to help you locate and track the front sight, i.e. not to help you call your shots.

ETA: a shot of my sight.

Gorilla,

Who made that one? What size is the FO (.040) and what width is the front sight?

Thanks,

[diehli]

Gorilla,

Who made that one? What size is the FO (.040) and what width is the front sight?

Thanks,

Brian Hawley (BrianH) made it based on my specs. The FO size is .040 and the sight width is .100.

[benos]

yeah...while shooting a match back in January with Rob (and Kelly)...I asked Rob about his views on FO sights vs some of the comments made by others that they shoot better without them. Rob's comments about the use of FO sights revolved around shooting certain color targets against certain backgrounds in non-optimal light where the FO helps the shooter find the front sight. Regarding the issues of shooters feeling that they can shoot better without FO's...he pointed out that those shooters typically are placing too much focus on the FO or using the FO itself as a means to sight the gun.

I switched to a FO sight years ago and my shooting improved dramatically. What I really like about the FO sight is that during fast transitions...it helps me "locate" the sight once I get there...and then once I locate the sight...I use it as I would a normal sight by looking at the top of the sight....and not the FO element.

For me that properly sums up the FO issue. The last paragraph describes the discipline necessary to shoot a FO properly. Which I don't think I ever had, so I just stuck to black.

be

[Bryan W]

Nicely put Brian.

[XRe]

Anyone have same problem of FO and Sight Black???

Yeah, I do - I just keep mine blacked out

[DKOL]

I've (finally) started training myself to shoot with both eyes open (By putting magic dots in my shooting glasses) and I have noticed a huge difference in my accuracy between a black sight and a FO. I'm now on a mission to hunt down and remove all offending FO sights from the guns in my safe.

[kellyn]

Ok, so I lied about Rob's Bianchi gun. But I was telling the truth about the single stack.

Steve, it is a little known fact that Dan Wesson actually invented the single stack 1911. Dan Wessons rock!

[Flexmoney]

Ok, so I lied about Rob's Bianchi gun.

You might not have been off. I thought I saw a fiber optic on the Bianchi gun that he shows on his site.

[Steve H]

Kelly, you were only off by a year on Rob's Bianchi gun, in 2004, it had a FO on it..........

Dan Wesson acutually stole the blueprints from JMB, while a janitor at the Browning factory, where he was working, prior to his partnership with Smith.

Steve

[kellyn]

[hiropro]

On all of my comp guns that use open sigths I always install a plain black front. Works scary fast for me. I tried colors and such but the black always workrd faster for me.

hiro