Plain Black Front Sight

[oldtrooper]

funny, my FO fell out last week at a match. I left it hollow and merely looked through the hole where the FO was and I was shooting much faster and all A's! I think there really is something to changing the sites from black to FO, to even hollow. my.02

I shoot mostly Bianchi and when the FO came out of mine I liked it much better, especially on the plates. If you are on the plate you see a white dot where the hole is in the black sight. It seems to help me focus on the front sight better just leaving the open hole where the FO was.

[SV'init]

funny, my FO fell out last week at a match. I left it hollow and merely looked through the hole where the FO was and I was shooting much faster and all A's! I think there really is something to changing the sites from black to FO, to even hollow. my.02

I shoot mostly Bianchi and when the FO came out of mine I liked it much better, especially on the plates. If you are on the plate you see a white dot where the hole is in the black sight. It seems to help me focus on the front sight better just leaving the open hole where the FO was.

yeah I really dont think I'm gonna put another insert in it for a while.. seeing the target through the front sight has allowed me to aquistion my sites and shorten the times between splits. I also seem to be hitting everything in a 2" group from 5-25 yards shooting as fast as I can w control. maybe it was the dryfire practice, maybe it was a stroke of luck, but I shoot at the local indoor range to work on speed vs. accuracy and I threw 20 rds down in about 7 seconds and put all except 1 in the orange at 8 yards. I cant do this with the rod in or with black ramps. at least I coluldnt before a week ago.

[Steve J]

What's prefered when the majority of the shooting is done in an indoor range where shooting a plain black sight on black targets is quite common?

Seriously, if you prefer a solid black front sight post, then hang up a light colored target. Now if you're shooting groups on a bulls-eye target then six o'clock hold.

[IronEqualizer]

I had a similar experience Sunday. I had been shooting poorly (impatiently) when I walked up to the line on stage 5 of 6. I noticed my FO rod was loose, and even remarked to the RO that I would be finishing the stage without my FO. Sure enough, it flew out after about 3 shots, and I just went back to looking at the front sight. It was the first decent stage I shot all day.

This morning I filled the hole with typewriter correction fluid, and when dry, painted it black with a Sharpie. I think I'll roll with this setup for a while.

Mark....How did it go with this set up? Are you still using plain black or did you switch back to the FO? I am interested in what you found out and what you are using now.

Alan

IE

[benos]

funny, my FO fell out last week at a match. I left it hollow and merely looked through the hole where the FO was and I was shooting much faster and all A's! I think there really is something to changing the sites from black to FO, to even hollow. my.02

Looking "through the hole" tricks you into actually looking at the front sight.

[shadetree]

funny, my FO fell out last week at a match. I left it hollow and merely looked through the hole where the FO was and I was shooting much faster and all A's! I think there really is something to changing the sites from black to FO, to even hollow. my.02

Looking "through the hole" tricks you into actually looking at the front sight.

I found the same thing with my hi viz front site. That little hole where the light pipe used to be draws my eyes right to the center of the sight..... no right through the center of the front site.

[hayes45]

FINALLY people are realizing how worthless these gimmics are! they really hurt your accuracy and are just one more thing to break on a gun!

Don't tell TGO and his 1910 at Bianchi!

Sorry for the silly question but I am new to the sport but have been following it for while and am familiar with big names. I know TGO refers to Rob Leatham but I can't figure out what it stands for.

[eerw]

Sorry for the silly question but I am new to the sport but have been following it for while and am familiar with big names. I know TGO refers to Rob Leatham but I can't figure out what it stands for.

"The Great One"

[Demetrio]

Sorry for the silly question but I am new to the sport but have been following it for while and am familiar with big names. I know TGO refers to Rob Leatham but I can't figure out what it stands for.

"The Great One"

I was just thinking about doing the same question, so thanks for the clarification.

[showpro]

I've been quibbling with myself over this one for some time now. Mostly, I'm trying to train myself to ignore the FO, except when first acquiring the sight picture. But it's tough--the brain tends to pay attention to certain things.

I think the fact that I've invested money in the FO sights is mostly what keeps me from going back to black.

[Tacblack]

I have swapped to and from the FO twice and still back on the factory serrated SV sight. I use the FO for top of sight on small targets and steel causing me to miss plate racks like mad. The serrated is a must for me I tried my 1911 with out it and just not as easy to pick up.

I found after trying smaller front sight and back to my .090 limited gun I can shoot my idpa gun better with the .125 I usually shoot shorter distance with it too. I think the .110 might be the way to go for my limited gun?

[Demetrio]

IMHO opinion the best compromise would be a Brazos Custom lightning rod front sight. It is a 0.090" wide blade that uses a recessed 0.040" diameter fiber optic rod. Due to the recess I got a more pronounced black sight for distance and tight shots, while still having the FO for quick shots.

Seems just like what I am looking for...

Do they make this for Glock? Where can I find it?

[JTew]

I was able to make something similar to the Micro Dot. I took the Dawson Fiber Optic front sight. Removed the FO and remounted it in the rear portion of the sight only (Barrel end). It gave me the effect of a micro dot sight. I was looking through the hole in the front portion of the sight, and the FO glowed just enough to assist in a better defined sight picture. Just a thought. I did go back to the all black sight in the end though.

[buddy_fuentes]

I read this thread several weeks back and thought that maybe the fiber optic was the reason my long distance accuracy wasn't what I thought it should be. I use to shoot Bullseye and PPC and usually shoot distance well. Yesterday while shooting a match my fiber optic broke and fell out. I did not want to take the time to replace it so I shot without it. I noticed that my shot grouping was much tighter than it had been previously, while using fiber optics.

I am going to shoot it like it is for a couple weeks and see if there is a continuing difference for me. If it continues to work well I will replace it with a new sight.

Buddy

[ChrisStock]

I think you are on to something. I've gone back and forth a few times (back to FO now). However I think it is more then a trick of the day type deal. Whenever I switch I learn something new about front sight movement, and I don't really forget it when I switch back. I find that I get better whenever I switch back and forth.

You nailed it. It is the simple trick of something new in front of you that forces you to tighten your focus. I have been experimenting with this over the last 6 months and have noticed that as soon as I switch sight types, my shooting makes a stellar leap forward. After a week or two I fall back into my normal inconsistencies. Frustrating to say the least. If I can learn to consistently maintain the focus and sight picture that I know I need to see, there is nothing keeping me from jumping 2 classes this year.

[Derek45]

IMHO opinion the best compromise would be a Brazos Custom lightning rod front sight. It is a 0.090" wide blade that uses a recessed 0.040" diameter fiber optic rod. Due to the recess I got a more pronounced black sight for distance and tight shots, while still having the FO for quick shots.

Seems just like what I am looking for...

Do they make this for Glock? Where can I find it?

Link to Brazos

[Odie]

Ok, I'm tinkering with this right now. Me and Paradox were at the range today messing with this, and here is what I came up with. I went to a plain black sight because I had a tendency to "shoot the blob" and not have a crisp sight picture. My accuracy greatly improved. In the last year I've found that fibers were easier to acquire but didn't like where the fiber was placed; most were too low in the blade for me, and I place the fiber even with the back sight. So, I made my own. I took a .90 plain black ameriglo, and milled it myself with a Dremel. I drilled the hole with a tiny drill bit, which is actually a Traditions muzzleloader nipple pick. But I made the cuts and holes where the fiber is even (dang near) with the top of the sight blade. I use a .20 fiber, which bells out to about a .30 or .40 when you blob it with a lighter. I can get a crisp picture, I just take the same picture of the fiber as I do with black, I make sure I can see the serrations. They're easy to see with that small a fiber. I found that the fiber aids me in picking the sight up, it doesn't help with the aiming, and it shouldn't. The aiming process for me didn't change, it takes the same amount of time, but tracking the sight and finding the sight improved, at least for me. I set up a series of drills, and figured all the hit factors, then averaged them all out. The fiber came out ahead of the black almost a whole hit factor, and I tested it out to 35 yards on plates. So, for me, it helps some. Probably not for everyone. I think just being interested in the whole thing leads to improvement in itself. My current experiment is black sights in the practice gun, my beautifully hand machined fiber in the match gun. We'll see what happens.

[Paradox]

Yup, and this occurs well after I had sworn off anything other than a plain black serrated sight. I thought I had reached the pinnacle of iron sightedness (is that a word?) when I found the "perfect" FS / RS width relationship for me. Then he calls and says, "Hey I am toying with this idea, you NEED to check it out."

I figured the practice session would turn into another affirmation that I really do hate FO sights. Keep in mind this is after I learned what AIMING actually means. After switching between a plain black / FO for half the day, I came up with some absolutes (for me). In my opinion, whether or not you "like" a FO or not depends your skill level.

If anyone is reading this and can't decide which one to use - check out my synopsis:

1.) As a beginning shooter: "Oh neat, I have this aiming device that will *make* me shoot really fast and accurately." Ok, now I am aiming (part of the time) with this colored blob on the front of my gun. It doesn't matter that I am getting marginal (at best) hits, but wait! After an undetermined amount of rounds downrange I start to see this brightly colored blob lift in recoil and finally settle back into the rear notch. Ding! Stepping stone #101.

2.) After another inordinate yet undetermined amount of ammo downrange, and I think "You know this red blobby thing is kind of annoying, I already see the sights and it is getting in the way of my group / precise shooting". At this point I decide to replace the FO with a plain black sight. Amazing! My hits are now squarely planted in the A zone, and my groups dramatically shrink. Ding! So this is aiming? Stepping stone #102.

3.) Soon after learning and employing the process of aiming and calling shots, I start playing with different sized FS widths and RS notches. A relatively thin one seems fast up close (with lots of light on the sides), but now I suffer from the marginal hit problem at distance (requires more focus). Maybe a larger FS width may work? After toying with different relationships, I find that the "secret" is the correct preportion of black sight and light on the sides. As a bonus, a correct relationship (for me) is just as fast up close and still offers excellent accuracy at distance. Ding! Aiming part II.

4.) Quite a few matches later someone says, "Hey dummy! You should try a FO again." The short version is, I can aquire the FO faster for closer stuff and use it properly to make the more difficult shots. *As a side note on my definition of "difficult", we were having fun taking turns scaring 12Ga hulls @ 25yds with the "new" sight. Occasionally, we did hit them with many "OMG!, that was sooo close!".

This is a condensed version of my experiences, but hopefully you get the drift. If there is a step after #4 I have yet to experience it...

Additionally, (we have already heard this from Brian) - IF you have the visual patience to use the FO up close and not use it for more difficult shots, you will have the best of both worlds. Personally, I found myself getting lazy later in the practice session and shooting the 'dot' more often on tight stuff; which resulted in misses / poor hits. Of course, this is just the first of many trials.

Ironically, (yes I can laugh at myself) I took the really long way to figure out the only "secret" is to actually use the little machined bumps on the slide Everything else is just personal preference! Use whatever it takes for YOU to make the shot...

P.S. - If you do try a FO, I think the advice given by Voight is a good guideline for proper setup...

[Derek45]

Does anyone sell a .090 plain front sight with the STI/SVI dovetail?

[pjb45]

Dave Dawson, also look at Brazos microdot.

With the Brazos you can put the fiber through all three holes or just use the front two if you want just a little fiber assistance.

[buddy_fuentes]

Back in Sept. I wrote saying I had broken my fiber optic and had not replaced it due to noticing better accuracy. Well it is late November now, I shoot at least one match each week and I have not used the fiber optics. My shots are more accurate and I seem to see the sights, not the "glow" of the fiber optic.

Buddy