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Glock factory barrel with lead

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I shoot a ton of lead through my stock G34 barrel. I'm sponsored by J&K Bullet Casters, and I've put around 10k of them through my barrel in the last 8-9 months. I start to see leading in the barrel after about 500 rounds. I've shot as many as 1000 rounds through the barrel without cleaning it, but to play it safe I usually clean it every 400 or so. I've never had a problem, but J&K makes a pretty hard bullet as well.

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I think you can get by with a hard cast bullet. I've shot thousands of rounds through mine without any problem.

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I shoot homecast bullets w/alox lube through my stock G27 w/no leading-minor PF of course, but my g22 w/major power gets leaded up real fast less than 100 rds.

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I'm not sure where everybody got the idea your not suppose to shoot lead through a Glock? I've not here that many people having problems. Every gun makers says not to shoot reloads.

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Soft and or undersized bare lead bullets, in other words, poor quality do foul a polygonal rifled barrel faster than conventional barrels. Trust me. Not a good combo.

Since most of us are not slugging bores or doing Brinell hardness tests it's a good idea to stick with known manufacturers of quality bullets. Plenty options in the black moly, plated

and jacketed bullet market.

Jim

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I'm not sure where everybody got the idea your not suppose to shoot lead through a Glock? I've not here that many people having problems. Every gun makers says not to shoot reloads.

Read Chapter 4 of "The Glock in Competition".

Quote from Duane Thomas in "The Blue Press" after reading the book... "For me the most interesting part of this section was the chapter on “The Exploding Glock, Fact or Fiction?” This is a reprint of an article written by a licensed PE (Professional Engineer) who investigates accidents and failures for a living, detailing his experiment in which he hooked up a Glock 22 .40 to a pressure-testing device and fed it a diet of lead ammo until it blew up. It’s well known among Glock fans that the polygonal rifling in Glock barrels causes heavy barrel fouling with attendant high

pressures when fed lead ammo. What will absolutely shock you about this chapter is just how swiftly pressures rise, and how few rounds of lead ammo it takes for pressures to rise into the danger area. Let’s admit it, most of us have fired lead-bullet reloads through our Glocks, some of us extensively, but reading this chapter pretty much cured me of the practice."

Mike McNett, (Owner of Double Tap Ammo) used to argue this topic to no end until he did his own tests. This information, in one form or another, has been available since 1995.

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Unless you can get BHN of 23 plus, you will be skidding towards the fence. With proper attention to detail (lets face it, most people won't do it) you can shoot hard cast lead to a point. VERY few bullets makers produce a lead slug with BHN of 23+, okay maybe 2. The majority of Hardcast slugs are BHN 19-22.

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I read that article years ago and just did not believe any of it. I have shot tens of thousands lead bullets through 9mm, .40 and .45 Glocks with stock barrels. No special bullets either. I get mine from Valiant Bullets in Alabama. Seems like they run 18-20 BHN.

I started testing with a 125 gr 9mm Valiant bullet at a little over 1,000 fps. At the 1,000 round point I was getting little if any leading. That was back when I was using a very lead bullet unfriendly powder - Titegroup.

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What makes you think Titegroup is a very lead unfriendly powder, just out of curiosity? That's the powder I was using when I put nearly 5,000 Laser-Cast 200-gr. LSWCs through my Wilson .45 without cleaning, and without malfunctions. As with the Glock 34, when I looked down the barrel of my .45 after that, not only did I see no leading, the bore was so clean it literally looked polished. Kudos to Laser-Cast, certainly, but the Titegroup didn't seem to add any problems to the mix.

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What do you all think about wheel weight bullets coated with Roster Red lube for .40 minor in a stock barrel?

EJ

WW's will cast out to 10-12 BHN if you air cool the bullets. If you drop them from the mould into icewater they could be as hard as 18-20 BHN depending on casting temperature. Normally they will start to reach max hardness 24hours after casting.

I use an alloy that is 10-12 BHN, very similar to WWs and air cool the bullets and use a soft lube similar to 50/50 Alox-Beeswax.

I just shot a bunch yesterday in my .40 SV with zero leading. Bullet is a 175gr TC Lee and I sized to .401". The important thing is to size the bullets to .001" over your groove diameter. Even a super hard bullet that is undersized will lead like crazy.

EG

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I read the article 'Read Chapter 4 of "The Glock in Competition"' mentioned in a prior post just the other day. Coincidentally it was the afternoon I returned from shooting my new Glock for the first time and I was shooting lead bullets. I took it as a sign from God that I wasn't being careful enough! Used to shoot 38 super loads pretty hot at matches due to an unreasonable fear of not making the Major power factor so its not like I'm a chicken!!! LOL. anyways to get back on target, I have not had much of a desire to push anymore lead down the Model 19 since and am looking at buying a barrel more bullet tender as I like all my body parts just as they are. KB's can be such a drag. I am thinking about a BarSto but after reading the stuff about why use reloads? they have on their web site and the comment about Middle SAAMI I am not sure if their barrels are loose enough for reloads anyways. Guess I am in a quandary as to which barrel to get. Anyone got a wise 2 cents to toss in I am listening. And if I did get a Barsto should I have the chamber over sized a bit?

earl

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In Chapter 4 of "The Glock in Competition" it gives you a method to test your bullets using a chronograph. If you just plan to shoot lead and don't want to do any more work, then get an aftermarket barrel. If you check your barrel for leading and test with the chrono there may be no problem using your stock Glock barrel with lead bullets. It depends on the bullet and the barrel. Not all bullets or even every Glock barrel are the same.

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TG has a very high level of nitroglycerin. It appears to generate a much higher level of temp. than a powder without nitro like Solo 1000. I would notice that the barrels of my Glocks would get very hot after shooting TG - not so with Solo. OTOH I did not get any more leading with the TG than with Solo, just a lot more smoke.

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Let's see how good my memory serves me: I went to one of the first Glock schools

in MA when Glock hit the US. A retired Lt. Col. from the MA state police helped

Glock get into the MA area. Any way- at the Glock school-some time around the late

80"s- dont hold me to that date as I may be off a year or two, the instructors

cautioned the police depts. using the .9mm Glock at that time to "NOT USE LEAD"

due to the cut inside of the Glock barrels! They said the soft lead will stick

inside of the barrels, due to the cut,build up and split open. The class was shown

many of these "TEST" barrels in the class room. Over the years I attended six more

of the Glock schools, and was able to purchase the Glock of my choice after each class,

for a sum of $283.00! The last class I attended was in the late 90's. At that time I

purchased a Glock in 40S&W.

My self and a Sergt. from another police dept. began to make lead bullets and test

the Glock barrel out. Did it lead yes, with the soft lead we used. However after

every shooting session of 300rds. we cleaned the barrels and never did blow one up.

So to answer the question- who siad we should not use lead in the Glocks-

it started in the class rooms of long ago from "Glock" themself. :surprise:

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So to answer the question- who siad we should not use lead in the Glocks-

it started in the class rooms of long ago from "Glock" themself.

And like so many things, this has grown and sprouted wings and become the stuff of legend. It doesn't matter that modern hard cast or moly coated bullets have pretty much rendered this a moot point, the legend remains. And like most legends, few know the why and wherefore of it. Thanks for adding this.

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I read the article 'Read Chapter 4 of "The Glock in Competition"' mentioned in a prior post just the other day. Coincidentally it was the afternoon I returned from shooting my new Glock for the first time and I was shooting lead bullets. I took it as a sign from God that I wasn't being careful enough! Used to shoot 38 super loads pretty hot at matches due to an unreasonable fear of not making the Major power factor so its not like I'm a chicken!!! LOL. anyways to get back on target, I have not had much of a desire to push anymore lead down the Model 19 since and am looking at buying a barrel more bullet tender as I like all my body parts just as they are. KB's can be such a drag. I am thinking about a BarSto but after reading the stuff about why use reloads? they have on their web site and the comment about Middle SAAMI I am not sure if their barrels are loose enough for reloads anyways. Guess I am in a quandary as to which barrel to get. Anyone got a wise 2 cents to toss in I am listening. And if I did get a Barsto should I have the chamber over sized a bit?

earl

i shoot barrels from kkm precision,carson city nv.775-246-5444,discount for L.E. and MILITARY. all my barrels were drop-in no fitting required--g19,g23,g30 g29 g20 and g21, my g36 has a jarvis barrel(before i found kkm)

years ago i got a few cases of cci blazer-aluminum cased- 9mm real cheap,had some fail-to-extract with kkm g19 barrel so i used the stock barrel for the cci blazer(shot in idpa matches).never shot any more aluminum-cased ammmo.

i`m a reloader and other than the cci blazer i`ve never had a problem with kkm.

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I do know a local shooter who makes a constant practice of shooting cheap lead bullets in his Glock 23. He's blown the barrel three times. I said to him, "Man, did you ever consider not shooting lead in your Glock? Or at least not shooting cheap, soft lead?" His reply, "Who cares? It never hurt anything else, and Glock's replaced the barrel all three times."

To him this makes sense.

Oy.

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i find that it's not how hard the bullets are, but does it have a good lube. if a bullet is to hard it won't bump up and fill the rifling, and you'll get gas blow by which will cause leading. with a bhn around 15 and a soft lube you should be all right.

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I too have bought into the story of the danger of lead in glocks and have purchased several aftermarket barrels for my glocks to shoot lead. However, I did one day want to practice with my 26 with a glock barrel and fired a few rounds through it with lead. Taking it home I cleaned it and noticed no fouling. During the next practice session I fired many more rounds through it and when I went to clean it I ran a single patch through and saw a bright spotless barrel.

I cast my own bullets, in this case I used a heavy 153 gr. Lee RN for a 38 super. As I cast it, it comes out somewhat lighter. I use an 8:2 ratio of wheelweights to Linotype and then water quench it. I also used one of the soft lubes. This goes along with what the others have said, hard bullets, soft lubes will minimize leading. I do shoot 125's (Lee rn with the tiny grease groove) in my 34 with a lone wolf barrel using a hard lube, that barrel does require scrubbing after a session. But then again, I have never liked that bullet because of the minimal lube.

As for the article about exploding glocks, I think you can prove anything you want to. Use the softest bullets and you have a worst case scenario. Take some common sense steps,be observant and you will be OK.

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Common themes emerge from every thread I read on this topic. Consistency from batch to batch in terms of hardness and dimension (BULLETS). Matching the type of propellant to the mechanical properties of the slug. Good reloading practices. Watching your equipment carefully and taking stastically significant samples during your production process. Read -Demming Total Quality. Or Tools for Statistical Quality Management. Even better, find an old reloading manual from before there were so damned many lawyers involved getting people who are stupid lots of money! There USED to be a tremendous amount of really good information in there.

These are pressure devices and as such they have well defined mechanical parameters for their functions.

Good engineers are control freaks, that's one reason why old ones are usually so crabby, I think. Control is expensive. The more extreme the environment, the more control costs. There is in fact a way to predict which propellant, alloy combination is likely to produce leading in the bore of a pistol or rifle. If all you want to do is throw a bunch of rounds together to get out out to the range and practice, spend money on jacketed bullets. The combination of an alloy jacket on a lead slug, has proven metallurgical performance over a WIDE range of pressures, velocity and extremes of environment. That's why military ammunition is built and packaged as it is. You may need your gun to run in minus 40 and bone dry to plus 100 and raining so hard you can barely breathe! Or any combination you can dream up.

WHAT!!?? Jacketed slugs cost too much?? Well if you look back in the history of the shooting sports, we've been here before.

For example; Richard Lee of the good ol Lee reloading company. I'm lucky in an odd way, I guess, because ever since I was very young I found myself hanging around with old machinists, engineers and believe it or not more than a few actual rocket scientists. Mr. Lee is the perennial crabby old engineer. I say this from a place of deep respect. He is one of the remaining living pioneers of hand loading as we know it. He and a few others literally invented Cheap reloads.

Get yourself a copy of Modern Reloading it does not cost that much. Read and re-read the section in that book on bullet casting and if you like, gas checks. There is a predictable relationship between the "Pressure" or strength of the alloy you use for the bullet and the pressure of the load you are producing (propellant pressure curve). With a simple hardness tester (about $40.00 from Midway) and as many different reloading manuals as you can get your hands on. You can figure out loads that you can build with WHATEVER components you can get your hands on that will run in your gun without BLOWING IT UP!

The ultimate equation in this emerges simply, either pay time or pay money. Economies of scale and rules for manufacturing consistency apply! Recycled lead is a great source for a hand loader but you better know how the metal alloy will behave. There are REALLY good dedicated bullet casters that produce high quality consistent products. They know how the alloy will behave. Leadheads bullets, Oregon Trail, to name only two. These guys are shooters and really know what to do. Nothing replaces working to acquire real knowledge of the engineering behind the recommendations (PAY TIME). Or PAY someone else to acquire the knowledge and produce a product you can just stuff into a case on top of whatever the propellant Du Jour is and go shooting (PAY MONEY)!

Up to you! They're YOUR fingers and your expensive race guns! Hell it's ONLY money!!

Edited by redmanfixit

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Thank You Duane, I hate it when I drop words out of my rants! I dropped a " Know" out of there as well and I think it's too late to edit it!

Ha! I got it!

Edited by redmanfixit

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i find that it's not how hard the bullets are, but does it have a good lube. if a bullet is to hard it won't bump up and fill the rifling, and you'll get gas blow by which will cause leading. with a bhn around 15 and a soft lube you should be all right.

Lead bullets loaded with smokeless powder don't "bump up". Lead bullets cast soft (20 to 1 or 30 to 1 lead to tin, no antimony) loaded over blackpowder do bump up. The guys/gals shooting black powder cartridge rifles for silhouette and long range bullseye found this out pretty quickly. When they tried modern cast bullets (relatively hard) they got tons of leading. They went to a period correct lead mixture (soft with no antimony) and soft lube...leading went away because the bullets were bumping up. R,

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